Homosexuality - A different Perspective

a reply to: Isurrender73

Because those born as homosexuals are not sinning. And those who are born straight know that trying gay sex is a sin for them.

Why use the Hebrew and Greek bible to try to prove your point? It is plain and well understood that homosexuality and lesbianism is a sin against the God of the Jews and Christianity. The scriptures have repeatedly been discussed in other various threads so all we can do is repeat the same old arguments.

The Hebrew Tanakh belongs to the Hebrews and when written pertained to them only. You are a guest in their realm when you try to use their literature to vindicate your contrary beliefs. The same applies to the Christian Greek bible. If you disagree with either or both then simply write or find your own but don't you think that it is unfair to yourself in the
belief that somehow you are going to change their God into your god.

If a person is born homosexual then God is not at fault. It would have to be the parents of that homosexual who are at fault. God did not create that child to begin with. The parents procreated that child by their own decision to procreate. If God created every child then he would be at fault for condemning that which He created as a homosexual.

If it is against the will of God to be homosexual and the child is born a homosexual then that would be the fault of corruption of the flesh would it not? And who is at fault for corruption of the flesh? Not God, for he created man in a perfect state. But then it is not the fault of the child either so God must be really a bad God to let a child be born that way. Is that what you are saying?

So should God should step in and control people so they won't be corrupt and babies suffer with disease etc.? Now we finally got to the point. Damned if He does and damned if He doesn't. He is a scoundrel if He controls a situation and He is a scoundrel if He doesn't. So what happened to perfect will and permissive will of God? His perfect will is to net have homosexuality or any sexual perversions but His permissive will is that by our choice in corruption of our minds and flesh we can still overcome that weakness of the flesh. How? Repenting from that weakness and overcome the flesh.

a reply to: Seede

I like the angle you have taken here. It is true that the subject of homosexuality VS religion has been thrashed out over, and over, and over to the point it's getting beyond repetitive.

The problem on the side of Christianity et al is that people are relying on a book written by fellow man thousands of years ago for advice on something they know absolutely nothing about. The only part of the bible that can be guaranteed to be written by God himself is whatever is on those tablets he gave to Moses. We don't even know for sure what is on them, because they went missing along with the ark.

a reply to: markosity1973

Awesome post. So many people confuse bisexuality with polygamy. Bisexuality means someone attracted to both genders, but whether they have many partners (polygamy), one (monogamy), or none (celibacy) represents how they express their sexuality, and this choice of expression to have many partners, one, or none is a choice decided by all people with sexual desire.

Sexuality = attraction, not an action/choice

Relationships (monogamy, polygamy, celibacy) = action/choice

Saying that gay people and bisexual people should not be in an relationship at all, but be celibate, while the straight person giving this advice is happy, in a loving relationship, and not celibate is unfair and hypocritical. Many LGBT have been hurt because of teachings like this, feeling oppressed and lonely with low seld-esteem while the anti-gay person who condemns them and tells them to be celibate does not understand them, nor loves them as themselves, and would probably not be able to live the celibate life they want them to live.

Then, there are the people who complain about gay people who express themselves , and claim that is "rubbing it in their faces", meanwhile most of them automatically assume that gay people are straight, until they speak up and to let others know they're not. Yes, gay people are being oppressed. Yes, it is comparable to Black people, gays have not only been killed and persecuted for being who they are, but even in some countries today it is still ok to do this.

God is Love and therefore loves gay people and understands the persecution and pain that unloving people do to the LGBT community. I know God will eventually bring Gay Marriage and Equal Rights to the LGBT community around the world.

Love never fails. Love will eventually overcome all of the darkness of pain, death, condemnation, and opression. Love never gives up and always has faith.

a reply to: markosity1973

The problem on the side of Christianity et al is that people are relying on a book written by fellow man thousands of years ago for advice on something they know absolutely nothing about. The only part of the bible that can be guaranteed to be written by God himself is whatever is on those tablets he gave to Moses. We don't even know for sure what is on them, because they went missing along with the ark.

I agree somewhat with your understanding and I also agree that most Christians will not read and are not taught properly. I don't believe that God wrote any part of the Hebrew or Greek bibles but I do believe that He has witnessed to the many authors of the bibles. The religion of a Christian is completely theological and Christianity was not founded on the NT as you and I have it today. Christianity did not regard the letters of the Apostles nor the letters of Paul in their liturgy at all. Their liturgy was totally Hebrew and Aramaic. They had Torah in Hebrew even though the Septuagint was the most used for the Greek speaking Jews. Greek was never permitted in the forming of the Jerusalem Christian Synagogue under James the Just (Brother of Jesus). They also had other books such as Enoch as well as oral Torah.

As Jesus died the Bethany family migrated into Briton and the isle of Avalon. Avalon is rich in the history of Joseph of Arimathea who became protector of Miriam mother of Jesus. Joseph's Sarcophagi is shown as Joseph of Marmore from Arimathea in the same chapel as that of Mary the mother of Yahusha (Jesus).

Lazarus became first presbyter in the Bethany Nazarene Ecclesia and later the priest on the island of Cyprus. His proof is there today as the church of St. Victor and the grotto of Lazarus.

Maximin (one of the seventy disciples of Jesus) became the protector of Mary Magdalene and settled in the olive gardens of Gaul in the town of Basilica, forty miles northwest of Marseilles. There lays the church of St. Maximin today.

One more example is that of Sidonius Restitutus. The blind man whose eyes were healed by Jesus. He settled north of Marseilles in a little village named St. Restitute. There in a chapel- church on the hill top is his tomb overlooking his village of St Restitute.

There is much more such evidence of the Christian bible but how many Christians are taught their very own history? But what is more alarming is that how many really care to learn? Many will never venture out of the bible and enjoy the rich heritage of Christianity and become bogged down in repetitive dialogue from the seminaries teachings of organized religion. I see your point and I believe you are right.

originally posted by: Seede

I agree somewhat with your understanding and I also agree that most Christians will not read and are not taught properly. I don't believe that God wrote any part of the Hebrew or Greek bibles but I do believe that He has witnessed to the many authors of the bibles. The religion of a Christian is completely theological and Christianity was not founded on the NT as you and I have it today. Christianity did not regard the letters of the Apostles nor the letters of Paul in their liturgy at all. Their liturgy was totally Hebrew and Aramaic. They had Torah in Hebrew even though the Septuagint was the most used for the Greek speaking Jews. Greek was never permitted in the forming of the Jerusalem Christian Synagogue under James the Just (Brother of Jesus). They also had other books such as Enoch as well as oral Torah.

I agree with what you are saying here. The Ethiopian Orthodox church for instance is absolutely fascinating and is quite different from Mainstream Christianity in that it is a true hybrid of Jewish belief and what would have been early Christian teachings.

I do believe the bible has great spiritual merit in it's teachings, but I do not believe that it is meant to be a literal word for word handbook on how to run your life. If it is, we are all going to hell for wearing cotton / polyester underwear for instance.

originally posted by: arpgme

God is Love

These are the three tiny words so many religious people from all different religions forget / ignore.

Worshiping and following him is meant to enrich your life and bring blessings. Faith is not a tool to use against others or to use to judge them with.

a reply to: arpgme

But Love can be expressed through sex, by both straight couples and gay couples and if it is in The Holy Spirit of Love then it is not a sin.

Love can also be expressed by a hand shake or spanking your child or rubbing the dogs nose in a poop on a rug. So what? You mean that you love a head chopper the same as your mother? It can also be expressed a million different ways. Do you love a homo the same as your mom or if married the same as your wife? Maybe you want to kiss your goat but does that make it sane?

Is God nothing but love or is it that God includes love? When you say God is love does that mean to you that God cannot hate and if so what does He hate? Well for one thing Jesus hated the Nicolatians.

Rev_2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
Rev_2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

If you thought that Jesus could not hate then you are believing a lie. That's why He preached about hell so often. God didn't throw people into hell for a hobby. They earned hell . That was their wages. The wages of sin are death. If you want to believe this political correctness of the feel good culture then that is your prerogative but you can never say you did not have that choice.

a reply to: Seede

The book of Revelation is a contradiction to Christ's teachings in the Gospels.

God is Love. Not just "sort of" Love. God is kind to the good and evil:

For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. - Luke 6:32

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. - Luke 6:35

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Isurrender73

Two people of the same sex cannot procreate. Therefore, the perfect attraction and perfect relationship must be male/female.

Only if your idea of perfection is based on reproduction rather than Compassion which is God's true Law.

By the way, if everyone were a man, the world would not be able to reproduce. If everyone where an old person, the world would not be able to reproduce. It doesn't mean being a man or old person makes a person imperfection, so neither does being homosexual make someone imperfect.

That is flawed logic.

The sex act exists for one reason - reproduction. Our bodies would not have it otherwise. If you want to go down the path of evolution, it is a biologically expensive means of procreating. If we stopped needing it to procreate, the theory dictates that our species would lose the means to have sex as the systems involved make us less efficient organisms and less adapted for survival.

The drive to always and only ever want to have sex in such a way as to never procreate is indeed a flaw or imperfection as it guarantees your genes will not be passed on. Having gender is not the same except inasmuch as it's a side effect of being a sexually reproducing species. A man will pass on his genes given the opportunity to do so, and an old man will have done so given the opportunity at some point in their lifetimes. A gay man will take the opportunity to pass on his genes, but his flaw ensures his partner will never be the kind who can create new life with them.

All humans are driven by a combination of seeking pleasure and avoiding pain. Eating, sleeping and reproduction are basic survival instincts. Sex is just one aspect of seeking pleasure and the result is sometimes procreation however, the main motivating factor is the seeking of pleasure. Whether the orifice that delivers the individual's best pleasure response offers procreation as a result is irrelevant. Organized religion is the place where the stupid debate over some false set of 'morals' began and is the only realm as to which they should be relevant. Primates that procreate exchange sex for favors or food, display sexual acts that cannot result in procreation so are they flawed science also?

a reply to: Seede
Rubbing a "dog's nose in poop on a rug" is an prime example that shows that you have absolutely no concept of science, understanding of nature, compassion or love. Imagine being in a strange place and you did not know the customs. You had to release yourself however could not find a place that seems correct, You found an out of the way place that seems okay and when you were caught someone rubbed you face in it.

Oh, Yeah, I am sure you are ready to wow the planet with your understanding of "Love".

Who cares about what everyone says!! All of this religious opinionated stuff and all the nature and science says stuff is pure unadulterated crap.

I welcome everyone who is gay or lesbian or whatever to be how they want to if that is what nature has dictated to them. The damn planet is getting to a level of unsustainable growth so potentially and scientifically thinking (theory time), homosexuality is potentially natures answer to reduction of population density.

Just mind your own damn business and try to get along with nature before you dumb Shaites get us all killed!

Rant over and in no specificity towards anyone here; Just had to let it out.

a reply to: notmyrealname

Oh, Yeah, I am sure you are ready to wow the planet with your understanding of "Love".

Are you saying that if I rub a dogs nose in poop on my carpet that somehow I don't believe science? Woweee. Are you some of the problem why this nation is 25th in reading world wide? How about 28th in Science and 25th in Math? And your only problem in this world is to shake hands with perverted humans. Wowee--

a reply to: arpgme

The book of Revelation is a contradiction to Christ's teachings in the Gospels.

And now doctor arpgme you are telling me that the Apostle John is a liar and the revelation literature is wrong. You are the correct interpreter of the intent of John and that somehow some of what John writes could be true but that in this case he just simply lied. Hummmm ?

Could it be that you are mistaken and that John is correct? Could it be that love your enemy is to be at peace with your enemy and not want to harm your enemy? Do you require that the Christians should never defend themselves from the enemy? You know, the old turn the other cheek sort of thing? Do you believe that a Christian should embrace evil for the sake of love? Is it possible to love people and yet shun mixing with them? If Jesus is the Begotten Son of God and God does hate then is it unlawful for the Son to also hate that which His Father has taught Him? Or on the other hand are you telling me that God does not hate? Please explain this to me if you would not mind.

a reply to: Seede
No, I am saying that you do not understand anything about canines which would fall under the nature category. The fact that you think that it is a science is very revealing about your thought process and intellectual prowess in these matters.

Unfortunately for me, I must now wash out my brain-pan with ammonia to attempt and forget that some people think like this!

a reply to: notmyrealname

No, I am saying that you do not understand anything about canines which would fall under the nature category. The fact that you think that it is a science is very revealing about your thought process and intellectual prowess in these matters.

You need more than ammonia to help that brain. I never mentioned the word science to arpgme on the above thread of the discussion of love. In the second case, you took the entire post completely out of context. The post was that I rubbed my dogs nose in his poop on my rug out of love and not of hate as you understood it to mean. Nothing said about science nor that I hated my pup whatsoever. You do have a problem in contextual understanding but then maybe you allow your dog to poop on your rug. Who cares anyway. The message was that Jesus does hate and did hate and will continue to hate. Grab another bottle of ammonia cause you may need it for that one.

a reply to: Seede

So you are saying that you are loving your dog by teaching it not to defecate somewhere by rubbing their nose in it is an expression of love because you are helping them to be obedient?

It is probably lack of knowledge on your side to understand that rubbing your pet's nose in their own excretions is not a proper means of the pet's education, it does however confuse the pet and ensure that you will never have the bond between pet/person that you could have. Thinking along those lines, I suppose you might think that perhaps doing the same for a child as part of their loving education is correct also…?

I sense that you are quite frustrated and I hope you can find peace someday.