What happended during the Waco siege?

20 years later there are still questions about who fired 1st and who started the fires in the 1st place.Evidence has disappeared,we have contradicting stories since the beginning one thing for certain from the assault on the MOVE compound to Waco we have seen just how far local and federal law enforcement will go in order to increase their power and money.

a reply to: mike dangerously


I never really thought about the siege until I picked up this video at my local library:

There is no question in my mind that it was the military who started those fires and burned those people, including the children, alive as they were cowering together during the tank assault. The tank was rigged up with the purpose of punching holes through the wall and injecting fires inside the building. Whether or not they realized exactly where those innocent people were at the time doesn't matter as they were systematically setting the whole complex ablaze. They killed those people and then proceeded to cover up what they had done.

I think Waco should go down as One of the great American tragedys. A prime example of a power hungry government that will kill to make a point. The sheriff and the Davidians had a good relationship. He could have simply called and brought them in, and when offered to do so was told by officials they'll do it there way. Playing toy soldiers in civilian clothes, wanting to show there might while feeding egos with there big operation. Remember voters, this was a Clinton administration violation of human rights.

Some of the UK Special Forces (SAS) were there on those days to observe how things were done (I think most allies do this but only know the UK).

Apparently they learned much of what not to do, but none of them accused US authorities of starting fires (not saying that didnt happen).

When SAS raided the Iranian Embassy in Princess Gate (prior to WACO) their explosives set off a big fire, this was in a stone/brick building in london with only soft furnishing to catch fire. A tinder wood structure in Texas wouldnt need much help.

Food for thought.

Government sponsored mass killing is what happened at Waco. Janet Reno swung her member around and ordered a group of fairly innocuous separatists and their children executed.

Fantastic.

Wanted to get some updated infos and tried Wikipedia, first the German version, then the English for comparison.

The English site is ... a stub, at most. The German version is at least 5 times longer. This is usually a sign for edit-wars, but the history of that page does not give any clues for that.

I think that there are .. forces .. within even Wikipedia who wants to edit some parts out of your history.

Anyway, what I saw from the German version takes me to the following points:
- FBI used pyrotechnics which were technically able to ignite the devastating fire.
- Sen. John Danforth did not find any clues for the governmental side to have started the fire.
- FBI prevented the fire department from estinguishing the fires because they "feared gun fire from the Davidians onto the firetrucks".
- A lot went wrong on that day.

I don't know... There is even a large chapter about people in the rightwing militia interpreting this event as a wakeup-call, and about their motives. That is not a good thing, in my opinion. It takes a very simplistic view on a very chaotic day and tries to produce a simple, yet convenient answer that the government is evil. Could be right, but could also be wrong, even both together.

i dont have the facts but i remember watching this on live tv as a kid.
that was the first time i saw some crazy # go down at the hands of our gov

At the very least it was an entirely botched government operation from the start.
As I recall, the local law enforcement officials said that David Koresh went for ice cream in town on a regular basis and could have been arrested without involving the women and children that ended up being massacred.
I remember hearing that part of the ATF strike force were former Arkansas state police troopers that had been Bill Clinton's security when he was Governor. They were killed in the beginning of the raid.

That'll teach us to secede from the more perfect Union.

Guess what all the hubbub about the Rebel Flag is also about?

a reply to: mike dangerously

Yeah , that is another one I watched when watching A noble lie, which also painted a pretty picture of how nice the US Gov. and some its agencies can be.

Personally I think the feds set the fire at Waco.

It's worth noting that they used the exact same tactics when they cornered The Vigilante, Chris Dorner. Pretty much the EXACT same formula.

1: Pull back all live cameras.
2: Set Fire to building.
3: Blame it on faulty equipment (In Dorner's case. I'm pretty sure they claimed it was a teargas grenade malfunction that started the blaze.)

What happened during the Waco siege?

The botched 1993 World Trade Center Bombing.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Government sponsored mass killing is what happened at Waco. Janet Reno swung her member around and ordered a group of fairly innocuous separatists and their children executed.

I agree with what you have said, except for the separatist part. The Branch Davidians did not seperate themselves from the local community in any shape or form. The were highly involved in the local community, the community was highly involved with them and they were known for being kind, warm people.

The only reason things got out of hand in Waco is because the government was afraid the Davidians were better armed than the local police and that they may be violating certain firearm regulations. Come to find out, they were not.

The Davidians died because of their defense of their 2nd amendment rights.

I might be able to provide a perspective on Waco that others may not. I knew one of the people who died there and I met David Koresh.

One of the men who died there was one of my best friends in high school. He was also the drummer in our garage band. The last picture I saw of him was playing drums behind Koresh. He was a good friend and not a wacko or lunatic. He really was one of the nicest people I knew. I miss him.

I remember meeting David Koresh. He had a way of looking at you that made you feel uncomfortable. Not threatened, just uncomfortable. We spoke for a few minutes and I didn't like him much. He just rubbed me the wrong way. I spent the rest of my time talking to my friend Mike. When I asked him what he was doing in Texas he didn't say much. I let it go. He told me he had a girlfriend and they got along good. He seemed happy enough. Before I knew it, it was time to go and Mike was heading back to Texas the next day. It never occurred to me that I would never see him again.

When I heard what was happening in Waco I called Mikes parents to find out what was going on but they were already in Texas. I watched it all on tv and I was stunned. They kept talking about a military style compound... It didn't make sense to me. I saw the fighting, and eventually the building going up in flames. And then it was over. It was the first time I had ever seen a crime scene bulldozed without an investigation.

I heard all the rumors and the "official explanation". It was some time later that I got to talk to Mikes parents. It seems that Mike was the first person killed that day. The bad part was, he wasn't even at the house. He and another man were in town when the fighting started. When he heard what was happening he tried to get back there but the roads were blocked. They went cross-country to try to reach the house but were met near the fence by ATF agents. I don't know who told them or how they found out, but they insisted that Mike was shot in the back of the head execution style, unarmed and on his knees. I saw the pain in their eyes and heard the anguish in their voices when they told me. I believe them. An ATF agent was later photographed wearing Mikes baseball cap, a trophy he claimed from his kill. One of my best friends was dead.

I was also informed that the media was prevented from filming the front side of the house throughout the entire event. When the women and children tried to escape the burning building some were cut down by machine guns, the rest herded back into the burning house by gunfire. The front side of the building riddled with bullet holes was allegedly the reason the house was bulldozed before an investigation could take place. I believe that also.

If all they wanted to do was arrest Koresh they could have done that earlier that same day when he was in town, unarmed, and with only one other person. Simple. But it didn't happen that way. And I would really like to know why.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

And I would really like to know why.

They had to send a message.

The message was: Comply. Do what you are told or we can do whatever we wish. We will kill the women, children and burn everything to the ground. At the same time, the American population will not care one bit because we will slander your name in the media and call you religious fanatics. We will fabricate lies that the American people will believe, and will not care that we killed all of you.

Sorry about your friend.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Was your friend Michael Schroeder?

a reply to: butcherguy

Yes he was.

Think about this... The women and children were piled up near the front door. They were sitting there inside a building that was on fire burning to death but they didn't run out the door. Why? Because the will to survive the fire was overwhelmed by something even more frightening outside that door.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: butcherguy

Yes he was.

He was shot in the head once, once in the heart... and 5 times in the back.
He was executed, imo.