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Puerto Rico's Dance with Debt

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posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 10:10 AM
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For those interested in knowing a bit more about Puerto Rico.
www.puertoricoreport.com...

Or just ask me.




posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
Is more complicated than what it looks like.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 10:53 AM
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a reply to: Abednego

Don't want to get too off topic but since relocating to CO my d-in-law was excited/surprised that medicinal marijuana was approved in PR. Her family isn't exactly on board but I've read it's already helping some children.

What is the general consensus? Will this just further divide the people/muddy the waters? It's helped CO especially the rural area where I live. The tax money coming in from it is more attractive to local officials than money from fracking/drilling operations. So for now it's a tradeoff, we'll see how it goes.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: Morningglory
I can surely say is about 50/50. What was approved was the use of marijuana components in medicine, not the use of marijuana "per se". Still illegal.

And to keep on topic:
This are some facts about Puerto Rico situation with USA:
1. Our citizenship was granted by law. The US congress can abolish that law anytime without our consent.
2. We cannot vote for the president of the US in the Island, but if I move to the states I can. (figure that out)
3. We can vote for candidates for president, but not in the general election. (what an irony)
4. I work fulltime (40/hrs week), get my social security deducted, but at the end since I live here I do not get the same amount of money if I get to live in the states.
5. Same happens with all of the federal funds.
6. If US goes to war, we go to war. See The Borinqueneers



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 01:06 PM
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a reply to: Abednego

Thanks for your reply. I really didn't expect a 50/50 split.

I didn't realize US citizenship can be abolished without consent, seems rather harsh. I believe my d-in-law told me you don't pay federal income tax but apparently that has created a perfect storm for scammers.

Her identity was stolen, for tax filing purposes, by a person in New York while my d-in-law was still living/working in PR. She had no idea until she moved here and filed taxes for the first time, the IRS caught it. She said people working in the PR DMV were involved.

Edited to add: Number 4 on your list really bugs me.



4. I work fulltime (40/hrs week), get my social security deducted, but at the end since I live here I do not get the same amount of money if I get to live in the states.


That's complete BS since your cost of living is as high if not higher than most places in the states. This is the reason some of my d-in-laws family members are planning to retire to the states.
edit on 6-23-2015 by Morningglory because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-23-2015 by Morningglory because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: Abednego
a reply to: Morningglory
I can surely say is about 50/50. What was approved was the use of marijuana components in medicine, not the use of marijuana "per se". Still illegal.

And to keep on topic:
This are some facts about Puerto Rico situation with USA:
1. Our citizenship was granted by law. The US congress can abolish that law anytime without our consent.
2. We cannot vote for the president of the US in the Island, but if I move to the states I can. (figure that out)
3. We can vote for candidates for president, but not in the general election. (what an irony)
4. I work fulltime (40/hrs week), get my social security deducted, but at the end since I live here I do not get the same amount of money if I get to live in the states.
5. Same happens with all of the federal funds.
6. If US goes to war, we go to war. See The Borinqueneers


Thank you for the first hand information - I had no idea how dreadful the Puerto Rican situation was. I've heard that the population of the Island has been steadily decreasing over the decades as people expatriate to the states for the reasons you so clearly delineate.

Talk about a 'company' town - wow.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: Morningglory
Puerto Ricans citizenship can be abolish without consent due to the fact that it was the congress that granted it.

"The Jones–Shafroth Act (Pub.L. 64–368, 39 Stat. 951, enacted March 2, 1917) —also known as the Jones Act of Puerto Rico, Jones Law of Puerto Rico, or as the Puerto Rican Federal Relations Act of 1917— was an Act of the United States Congress, signed by President Woodrow Wilson on March 2, 1917. The act superseded the Foraker Act and granted U.S. Citizenship to the people of Puerto Rico."

Actually you don't have to pay federal taxes IF you don't want to. But we do, to prevent exactly what you said, identity theft.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 01:43 PM
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originally posted by: Abednego
a reply to: Morningglory
Puerto Ricans citizenship can be abolish without consent due to the fact that it was the congress that granted it.

"The Jones–Shafroth Act (Pub.L. 64–368, 39 Stat. 951, enacted March 2, 1917) —also known as the Jones Act of Puerto Rico, Jones Law of Puerto Rico, or as the Puerto Rican Federal Relations Act of 1917— was an Act of the United States Congress, signed by President Woodrow Wilson on March 2, 1917. The act superseded the Foraker Act and granted U.S. Citizenship to the people of Puerto Rico."

Actually you don't have to pay federal taxes IF you don't want to. But we do, to prevent exactly what you said, identity theft.



But your 'territorial' taxes are quite high, no?

What are people saying about this default? And the long standing corruption that seems to make the Island so vulnerable to 'predatory' companies and practises?



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 02:35 PM
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a reply to: FyreByrd
We pay double taxes. In the sense that we pay a sales tax that will go from 7% up to 11.5% starting this July 1, 2015. And then by April of each year we have to file income taxes.
A detail about the sales tax; everyone pay the sales tax, even business to business. Oh I almost forgot, there is a 4% tax to services, so my utilities will increase, phone bill, cable tv, etc...

About the default, it is uncertain what going to really happen.

A revolution will be the best option.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 07:40 PM
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originally posted by: Abednego
a reply to: FyreByrd
We pay double taxes. In the sense that we pay a sales tax that will go from 7% up to 11.5% starting this July 1, 2015. And then by April of each year we have to file income taxes.
A detail about the sales tax; everyone pay the sales tax, even business to business. Oh I almost forgot, there is a 4% tax to services, so my utilities will increase, phone bill, cable tv, etc...

About the default, it is uncertain what going to really happen.

A revolution will be the best option.



Bethinks, a revolution (of the Bolivarian kind) may be the only answer for any well-meaning people.

What is your 'leadership' corrupt as I understand them to be leaning to do?



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 11:41 PM
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originally posted by: Abednego


And to keep on topic:
This are some facts about Puerto Rico situation with USA:
1. Our citizenship was granted by law. The US congress can abolish that law anytime without our consent.

Recent scotus rulings and changes to immigration laws make it almost impossible for congress to try that. What would occur, using the Marshall islands as an example, the affected people could chose their final citizenship. Absent committing a felony in order to obtain citizenship its extremely difficult to remove citizenship.




2. We cannot vote for the president of the US in the Island, but if I move to the states I can. (figure that out)

The US constitution specifically spells put what political subdivision retains a right to vote in federal elections. Those entities are residents of states or federal districts.




3. We can vote for candidates for president, but not in the general election. (what an irony)

Political primaries aren't official elections. They are designed so political parties can gather a consensus by popular vote on who they want their candidate to be.



4. I work fulltime (40/hrs week), get my social security deducted, but at the end since I live here I do not get the same amount of money if I get to live in the states.


www.socialsecurity.gov...


5. Same happens with all of the federal funds.

Because Puerto Rico, as a commonwealth, does not have the benefit of being a separate sovereign from the federal government like states do. As such they only draw on the federal system and have restrictions placed on SSI.





6. If US goes to war, we go to war. See The Borinqueneers

Puerto Rico has gone to war with the US dating back to the American revolution. Puerto Rico is subject to the draft just as all US citizens are. Just like everyone else absent a draft its an all volunteer military.

Any US citizen living in Puerto Rico can move to any us state and gain the right to vote as a citizen of that state. Puerto Rico also has the ability to change their status with the US.
edit on 23-6-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 08:31 AM
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And to keep on topic:
This are some facts about Puerto Rico situation with USA:
1. Our citizenship was granted by law. The US congress can abolish that law anytime without our consent.


Recent scotus rulings and changes to immigration laws make it almost impossible for congress to try that. What would occur, using the Marshall islands as an example, the affected people could chose their final citizenship. Absent committing a felony in order to obtain citizenship its extremely difficult to remove citizenship.


Your quite right, I was just trying to show the power the US Congress has. They can abolish that law, but still the people that already has the citizenship will keep it, since any law apply from the moment it is sign.



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 08:37 AM
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a reply to: FyreByrd
I'm not going to say that they all are corrupt, but I can say 100% sure that they are unwilling to do whatever has to be done. They are afraid it may cost them an election. So any decision is based on a political aspect and not on what is best for the people.



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 02:10 PM
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originally posted by: Abednego
a reply to: FyreByrd
I'm not going to say that they all are corrupt, but I can say 100% sure that they are unwilling to do whatever has to be done. They are afraid it may cost them an election. So any decision is based on a political aspect and not on what is best for the people.



And therein lies the problem. Thanks for your time and information.



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