Confederate monument a focus of debate after graffiti appears

www.postandcourier.com...

A memorial to the confederate "defenders of Charleston" was tagged with two bits of graffiti over the weekend.

"Black lives matter" and "this is the problem # racism"

Interestingly enough, the local news this morning did mention this statue but left out any mention of the rally at the capital over the confederate flag and no mention of any debate about the statue.

The article also mentions Emmanuel AME Church had their first service since the shooting. The news had video of it and the place was packed to the rafters. An amazing show of solidarity by the community, I think. The church reopened under police protection, which seemed a bit like closing the barn after the cows got out but I understand the need for it.

So, whatcha think ATS? This debate gonna go anywhere? The video they had on the news actually made me laugh, the way one of the guys trying to cover up the graffiti with the tarp was hopping around. Made me wonder if he was as upset about a church getting shot up as he was about a statue getting tagged.

ETA - two things: one, I meant local news didn't say anything about the debate that took place AT THE statue. Obviously the article is about the debate centered around the statue, so I apologize for the lack of clarity. Two, the parts in quotations are direct quotes and not me being snarky.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Frankly, I don't think the debate will go anywhere, but that's just me. Possibly its the case that there actually can be too much coverage. This was a horrific event, another wound.....but it will be over examined and that seems to somehow detract from the debate or discussion.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Did you happen to read said graffiti? It doesn't say Black Lives Matter lol its says "black lives Mater" look at it. ahaha They are only showing the pictures with the tarp up. look up graffiti of confederate statue in google images

a reply to: Shamrock6

Is not about black matters and racism is about ignorance and illiteracy, people doesn't stop to amaze me, our nation really is becoming a nation of ignorant and uneducated people.

But heck I guess when is no other purpose to life they wasted destroying what they have no been able to learn, "history".

a reply to: TonyS

Yea, I see your point. I've been doing some reading and it seems like the debate about this kind of stuff is cyclical in South Carolina. Something happens and the debate starts again. Then it quiets down a little. Then it comes back up somehow. And on and on.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the war memorials. The memorials are to the men who were killed. Whether we like what they fought for or not, they still had the fortitude to fight for their beliefs and indeed die for them. That shouldn't be taken away from them.

I did find an interesting article on the whole flag issue. It seems like getting the flag taken off the capital building itself was a big to-do in the state so I would think anything beyond that would turn in to a pretty long and ugly fight.

www.washingtonpost.com...

a reply to: freefall2020

I'm honestly a little amazed that your comment has already gotten stars.

So what?

a reply to: Shamrock6

I guess anything can be labeled racist. My concern is when does it stop? It's a slippery slope when everything can be interpreted as racist. Hell, the statue doesn't show civil war era soldiers at all, unless I'm looking at the wrong one. Not that I would call a statue of civil war era soldiers racist. After all the civil war actually had very little to do with slavery, despite the crap that the history books try to push. At any rate, it's not like the statue is of a black slave in chains being whipped or anything. Sheesh.

yeah I don't care about the Graffiti some kid did, thanks, in this tit for tat, I'd rather focus on the 9 lives lost.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I didn't mean to suggest anything by it only that's its funny. You don't find it funny that some one risked getting arrested to voice a concern only to screw up at the finish line!

I get why they are mad it understandable and what happened is tragic however come on. dont you think this person is a home going maybe i should have spell checked that first before spraying it. the worse part is what if other people know he/she did it and he/she will forever be known as MATER

What a world.

Thyere are important issues at stake here. We have a prime example of of what we should be, in those amazing people at the church. They showed us the way to advance and move forward. We have an example of the evil side of humanity, in the form of a torubled, angry, confused young man who obviously felt so oppressed himself he couldn't see the evil inherent in hatred when it engulfed him. We should be asking ourselves questions like "How can we be more like those amazing people in the church?" or "what could drive someone so far over the edge to do what he did?" or even "What can we do to make sure no one is ever consumed by this much anger again?"

That's not what we are asking ourselves.

The President is asking "What can we do to outlaw guns?" and "Should we be screaming louder about racism?"

I saw a thread yesterday that asked "Should we be jailing people who we think are racist?"

These people at the protest are are asking "Why should we allow a flag?"

The people who wrote the graffiti are asking "Why should we allow others to celebrate their heritage?"

Some have asked "Why don't we just lock up people with mental health issues?"

And so it goes. A gun didn't jump up in the middle of a church service; a man pulled the trigger. That man was a lone wolf, a deeply troubled individual who was driven over the edge by something I don't fully understand and doubt many do. I do know that a large part of that something was a feeling that his own heritage was being disrespected... a perception in his mind that became his reality, regardless of the true reality of what he saw and heard.

9 people didn't go to church today. Not 9 black people. 9 people. 9 human beings who were cut down needlessy and innocently. They aren't there because one person, not one white person but one person, was so hate-filled as to be unable to see the horror of what he was doing.

An entire community today is in pain, a pain that will last for some time yet and will leave a scar that may never heal. But they have showed such bravery, such courage, such honor in their reactions to this travesty as to make me sometimes wonder if they are not angels in disguise. I haven't seen people this strong since the Amish schoolhouse shooting several years back. They lost so much... but then I see those who have lost nothing, those whose only reason for anger is empathy, screaming for revenge and blood, clamoring for an end to freedoms, begging for another entire culture to be punished for one man's actions... the very definition of racism, the very thing they claim to despise.

They emulate Darynn Roof, out of anger at Darynn Roof.

Yeah, what a world.

TheRedneck

No matter what your views are on the war though, one thing is certain. Millions of Americans died around these battlefields and monuments that were both black and white, North and South and that makes these places hallowed ground not to be defaced.

Abolition of slavery was never the real issue of the Civil War. Just like WMD was not the real reason for Iraq. Just like the Gulf of Tonkin was not the real kickstarter for Vietnam. Just like "gassing his own people" is not the real reason they want to out Assad in Syria, etc. etc. Nowadays they like to say that ISIS is going to somehow swim over here and invade mainland America or something and put all Americans in Burkhas.

After all what sounds better for the history books? "We fought the war to abolish slavery." or "We killed and destroyed a section of the country that dared to try and govern itself." I find it ironic that many blacks and freed slaves fought in the Confederate armies as militia and raiders and sailors but almost everyone is ignorant of this fact.

All you have to do is read some of the diaries of the soldiers. I'm talking about the guys that actually did the fighting, not the historians and politicians biographies. The vast majority of the ones I've read involving Union troops are quite emphatic about the fact that if Lincoln makes the war about "freeing the darkies" they would never have even signed up. Same thing in the South where the overwhelming majority of the people were not slaveowners at all.

The North had their slaves, just in a different manner in the form of immigrants.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Let's ban the Confederate flag, let's ban any talk about the Confederacy let's ban the memory of Sherman burning Atlanta




Let's ban Lynyrd Skynyrd




Let's ban Joan Baez ( everyone should listen to this song and view the video )





While we're at it let's start burning books too


The birth of a nation
Gone with the wind
The Red badge of courage
Huckleberry Finn

Let's ban it from television

Dukes of Hazard
Andy Griffin show
Roots

The grand old Opry should be shuttered and burned to the ground the Confederate flag is regularly on display there . For that matter country music should be done away with entirety along with Southern rock .

Stone Mountain Georgia should be leveled because it is offensive to "some" people .

The CSA H. L. Hunley should be removed from preservation and thrown back in the sea .






Does anybody see how silly this whole symbolism thing is ? Anything that speak of or reminds us of our past has a different meaning to every person that gazes upon it .



People look at the Civil War with anger from two different angles. Anger over the issue of slavery Or anger at the north from the south for the devastation reeked upon it.


People look at it two different ways upon tradition . One group looks at it with anger because of slavery . And another group looks at it with anger because of federal intervention and starting with the first threat of secession from North Carolina in 1828 over unfair taxes and nullification of Federal law by the state .

In 1828 South Carolina raised a militia and Congress approved military action. A war was only avoided through a compromise .

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
yeah I don't care about the Graffiti some kid did, thanks, in this tit for tat, I'd rather focus on the 9 lives lost.

Exactly !!!!

That boy was a coward and a monster . He claimed his deed as revenge for murder and crime inflicted upon whites . Yet he went to the last place on earth where any of the offenders would have been present and slaughtered good people .

a reply to: TheRedneck

Seems like people always want the oppressed, the injured, the hated, the disenfranchised to do all the hard work, bear the biggest of burdens, carry the heaviest of the loads while others just get to sick back and luxuriate and ask: "Change what? Why change? This is great!"

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: TonyS

Yea, I see your point. I've been doing some reading and it seems like the debate about this kind of stuff is cyclical in South Carolina. Something happens and the debate starts again. Then it quiets down a little. Then it comes back up somehow. And on and on.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the war memorials. The memorials are to the men who were killed. Whether we like what they fought for or not, they still had the fortitude to fight for their beliefs and indeed die for them. That shouldn't be taken away from them.

I did find an interesting article on the whole flag issue. It seems like getting the flag taken off the capital building itself was a big to-do in the state so I would think anything beyond that would turn in to a pretty long and ugly fight.

www.washingtonpost.com...

I looked at the article you referenced and noted that the flag is the Confederate "Battle" Flag, not the Flag of the Government of the Southern States during the civil war. I've often wondered about why so many southerners are seemingly devoted to the Battle Flag as opposed to the other flag. Those who are curious can see the different flags at: en.wikipedia.org...

My wife and I were discussing this and she noted that she'd heard a Black Preacher giving a sermon the Emanuel church in SC this weekend and his speech had the tone to it like he and the congregants were just newly freed slaves. Then I noted how archaic Roof's rantings had sounded, like stuff out of 1930's Nazi Germany and the KKK of the 1920's. Not to be critical, but....it seems like an awful lot of people are just permanently stuck in times past. Its hard to imagine and to relate too at times. If people are that stuck in a past time, I don't see how they're ever going to move forward. And Roof was YOUNG, he's not some grizzled, fat old fart in overalls. How in the world does that happen?