It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

What should the rest of the world do about America's Climate change denial?

page: 4
12
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 08:37 AM
link   
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Well something is got to give, if we don't change our ways, eventually the wold WILL force us to.




posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 08:41 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Well something is got to give, if we don't change our ways, eventually the wold WILL force us to.


I agree. But there are so many vested interests. Just look at the power that energy companies have, and multinational corporations exhibit on our officials. If we know this is true with other issues, then so much more so with things like climate action.

It is those special interests who have brainwashed all of the denialists, including half of the people posting on this op.
.

This is why I said we may have to do it the hard way, where some serious environmental stuff begins to happen that even the denialists can't dismiss.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 08:49 AM
link   
a reply to: LDragonFire

What part is the one to be debated, LDragon the fact that the earth is going into a global cycle of clima change or the debate that we humans are the ones that is causing it and should be paying for it, so somebody else (no earth) will profit from it.

Earth is going to do what earth most do and had done for millennia, we the youngest species in earth will have to suffer with it regardless of what laws most be passed, whom will profit from it and what size of the population most died with it.

Is going to happen regardless, that is the fact, the filthy rich will find ways to pay for survival while we the rest of the population will died trying.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 08:51 AM
link   
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Stuff like that is already happening. Too bad it doesn't appear to be happening anywhere where it significantly effects Americans. Oh wait, California is experiencing one of its worst droughts ever...

The current and future consequences of global change


Southwest. Increased heat, drought, and insect outbreaks, all linked to climate change, have increased wildfires. Declining water supplies, reduced agricultural yields, health impacts in cities due to heat, and flooding and erosion in coastal areas are additional concerns.


Some more links.

Climate Change, in Real Time

Effects of Global Warming

How out of hand do things have to get before people wake the eff up?



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 08:58 AM
link   


How out of hand do things have to get before people wake the eff up?


Wake up for what? the problem in earth is overpopulation, or do you think that the dinosaurs got the chance to do something about their clima when they when into extinction.

The earth clima will change, that is a fact and we humans are nothing but a species that will either survive or died trying, but earth will still be here regardless.

This warming trend is just the beginning of the next ice age.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:01 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Stuff like that is already happening. Too bad it doesn't appear to be happening anywhere where it significantly effects Americans. Oh wait, California is experiencing one of its worst droughts ever...

The current and future consequences of global change


Southwest. Increased heat, drought, and insect outbreaks, all linked to climate change, have increased wildfires. Declining water supplies, reduced agricultural yields, health impacts in cities due to heat, and flooding and erosion in coastal areas are additional concerns.


Some more links.

Climate Change, in Real Time

Effects of Global Warming

How out of hand do things have to get before people wake the eff up?


Oh yes, I agree 100%. I'm a total environmentalist, and former science teacher.

We already are experiencing a background species extinction rate higher than that during the dinosaur extinction! And it's due to human activity, without a doubt.

Ecosystems are being destroyed around the world.

Yes, some of the climate effects are being seen in some extreme weather events.

But a LOT of the denialists are scientifically illiterate, or only get their news from anti-environmentalism sources such as Fox News or similar websites. So they refuse to ever look at the scientific data (which is legion) for what is happening environmentally.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:03 AM
link   
a reply to: marg6043

Overpopulation is a myth. There is plenty of space on this planet for all of humanity to live in the state of Texas. Rather comfortably at that. We also have the resources and distribution routes to feed, clothe, and supply the entire world many times over.

The only reason you believe in overpopulation is because capitalism is founded and thrives on artificial supply bottlenecks. We certainly CAN change our ways to stop polluting the planet if we were to put our minds to it.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:06 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

For a planet like ours to supply its citizens with all the necessities for survival it will required the entire human race to come together and work together.

that is not going to happen, no in this day and times of corporatism, greed and denial that we are one race after all and we all humans belong to it.

We are after all a complex organism that can never come together for a common goal.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:07 AM
link   
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I think the true problem is that many of these people are expecting to see some Hollywood level catastrophe as a result of Global Warming before they start believing in it.

But movies like the Day After Tomorrow are sensationalized nonsense. Global weather patterns don't change over the course of a week or two... Even man made changes.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:10 AM
link   
a reply to: marg6043

All of that doesn't mean it can't be done. Yes, doing what I said would require human cooperation on a scale never seen before, but it can be done.

But besides that, the birth rate in the 1st world has been steadily leveling off. Population growth only really happens in the 3rd world. Heck, in Japan, the birth rate has been plummeting for years to the point that the country is growing worried that they won't have a younger population to take care of the aging older population.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:13 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

One day it will come to that, people will wake up and find enlightenment and a common purpose toward and with their fellow human beings, but sadly it will take a great historical or world related event to cause that.

But for now, people are not motivated enough.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:14 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: marg6043

Overpopulation is a myth. There is plenty of space on this planet for all of humanity to live in the state of Texas. Rather comfortably at that. We also have the resources and distribution routes to feed, clothe, and supply the entire world many times over.

The only reason you believe in overpopulation is because capitalism is founded and thrives on artificial supply bottlenecks. We certainly CAN change our ways to stop polluting the planet if we were to put our minds to it.


Well, this isn't entirely true.

Overpopulation isn't a function of literal space per person, it is a function of even at a basic level how much environment is needed to sustain the population.

The formula is basically #people X impact/person. This is measured in a variety of ways. For example on the energy front there is the variable energy intensity, which is # people/ energy/gdp.

So, yes, we are currently overpopulated as the amount of production and consumption per person is far too high to sustain, hence why we are seeing both climate change and such things as ecosystem destruction and habitat loss.

It is conceivable, however, to change the variables within the formulas I mentioned such that our current population is not overpopulated.

This is exactly what climate action and sustainable development mean. We have to change the impact/person to make it sustainable for the future. But we can't do that if half the population even denies both the formula and the real impacts.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:17 AM
link   
a reply to: marg6043

Such attitudes aren't going to happen overnight. They take years and generations to develop. Though they certainly won't happen if people keep denying the science that says these things are happening. Otherwise, we'll just get more yahoos hand waving away the increasingly worse weather patterns like they are doing currently.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:19 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I think the true problem is that many of these people are expecting to see some Hollywood level catastrophe as a result of Global Warming before they start believing in it.

But movies like the Day After Tomorrow are sensationalized nonsense. Global weather patterns don't change over the course of a week or two... Even man made changes.


I agree with you. The thing is, BIGGER environmental problems are on the horizon if we do not change the business as usual trajectory. That's what I mean about the hard way. In 50-100 years there may be a problem so big nobody can deny it. This may be something like ecosystem collapse such that food systems collapse such that mass starvation occurs, wars ensue, etc.

I'm afraid that people aren't going to listen to the more subtle data that is showing our trajectory now, such as species extinction and so on. As you say, it isn't Hollywood level right now.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:20 AM
link   
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

A good example is the growing populations in the desert arid areas of the US western regions, that has forced the states to redirect water sources for the growing consumption of the areas been populated.

This causes problems as those areas that has been populated were not mean to be livable. But as usual making money is the primary motive when it comes to building communities in the desert.

Now we have to hear the complains of the people when it comes to shortness of water and the heat.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:21 AM
link   
a reply to: LDragonFire


Climate change haha

Please grow up and see that climate change is natural. Its the world changing and cleansing if you will. Not man made. But the dawn of the next extinction.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:23 AM
link   
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Well this is my entire point. We are only overpopulated according to our artificial system of captalism. The supply bottlenecks profit a select few people and they have no reason to change. They don't want to become more environmentally friendly and they don't want to increase the supply of their product to drive the price down.

Did you know that there are whole LOTS full of unsold new cars that continually fill up year after year? If these cars were to be dropped onto the population, it would tank the price of vehicles. Now vehicle supply bottlenecks may be a bad example (since they are one of the many causes of carbon outputs), but it is the same across many industries.

It occurs to me that we may have to crash our economy to see any real and positive environmental changes.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:40 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Well this is my entire point. We are only overpopulated according to our artificial system of captalism. The supply bottlenecks profit a select few people and they have no reason to change. They don't want to become more environmentally friendly and they don't want to increase the supply of their product to drive the price down.

Did you know that there are whole LOTS full of unsold new cars that continually fill up year after year? If these cars were to be dropped onto the population, it would tank the price of vehicles. Now vehicle supply bottlenecks may be a bad example (since they are one of the many causes of carbon outputs), but it is the same across many industries.

It occurs to me that we may have to crash our economy to see any real and positive environmental changes.


I see your point, but that is only part of the problem. You are speaking to over-production.

But that doesn't address the other part of it: over consumption. It is well-supported that across the developed world, and across the wealthier classes of developing nations, the per person consumption of various goods, disposables, energy, etc, is far too high. Things like energy can be addressed through grid systems, smart grids, end-user efficiency, renewables etc. But the amount of waste produced per person and amount of pure stuff consumed per person is too high.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:47 AM
link   
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Yes, this is the other side of the equation. If more people could learn to live without unnecessary bull# and buying the newest and greatest things whenever they come out, it would go a LONG way to reducing overconsumption and the resulting waste.

I blame the modern concept of planned obsolescence that forces consumers to upgrade like clockwork, but people DO need to learn some self-control as well.
edit on 22-6-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 09:49 AM
link   

originally posted by: projectbane
a reply to: LDragonFire


Climate change haha

Please grow up and see that climate change is natural. Its the world changing and cleansing if you will. Not man made. But the dawn of the next extinction.





It sounds like your opinion doesn't match the science or facts.

I would suggest you "grow up" and base your beliefs on relevant science, studies, and experts, not on folk opinions.

Climate change can be natural, but the current climate change we are seeing has elements unaccountable by natural cycles.



new topics

top topics



 
12
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join