Killing Them Softly

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I agree to a point, I just hope that you have prepared for everything so that your loved one's aren't caught "off guard" and have no choice in the end...

a reply to: TNMockingbird

Thanks for your thoughts. Those of us who have opinions about what we want, or do not want should consider an Advance Directive. I don't have one, but it's on my 'to do list'.

Advance directives are legal documents that allow you to spell out your decisions about end-of-life care ahead of time. They give you a way to tell your wishes to family, friends, and health care professionals and to avoid confusion later on.

They do simplify matters for yourself as well as care providers.

You can find templates for AD's on the net, as well as looking for one specific to your state.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

For some, maybe it really is the best option. I just know that I don't want to go out drooling on myself, whacked out of my gourd without any sense of where I am, gasping for breath

Exactly, MM, and the reason for my ambivalent attitude with it. Diapers, catheters, unable to eat or walk. Most of us don't want that. Blowing every cent you've saved for people to come in 'in shifts' to provide care. I rather leave my assets to family, or a charity.

I had morphine following a surgical procedure once, while in the hospital for five days. How can I say this?
It was glorious!

Located a link where you can download templates for Advance Directives for your state.

www.caringinfo.org...

I'm thinking this is a bit premature for me, but then I think of a 19 year old I have had contact with who is in NH, on life support in a vegetative state, because his parents don't have the heart (courage) to let him go.

Curvy road, Mack truck. He hasn't opened his eyes in 10 years. : (

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

No mystery why it is so cruel...It comes from The Holy Roman Empire and ashkeNAZI Germany No such thing as jews...they made it all up) New Order of Barbarians- Old satanic mystery religion--- ISis RA ELohim or a cruel race of reptilian beings most often mistaken for demons jinns etc.

After all Bruce Waynes grandfather founded Skull n Bones wink wink
1965: Florence Wald, then Dean of the Yale School of Nursing, invites Saunders to become a visiting faculty member of the school for the spring term.

1967: Dame Cicely Saunders creates St. Christopher's Hospice in the United Kingdom.

1968: Wald takes a sabbatical from Yale to work at St. Christopher’s and learn all she can about hospice.

1969: A book based on more than 500 interviews with dying patients is published, entitled, On Death and Dying. Written by Dr. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, it identifies the five stages through which many terminally ill patients progress. The book becomes an internationally known best seller. Within it, Kubler-Ross makes a plea for home care as opposed to treatment in an institutional setting and argues that patients should have a choice and the ability to participate in the decisions that affect their destiny.

1972: Kubler-Ross testifies at the first national hearings on the subject of death with dignity, which are conducted by the U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging. In her testimony, Kubler-Ross states, “We live in a very particular death-denying society. We isolate both the dying and the old, and it serves a purpose. They are reminders of our own mortality. We should not institutionalize people. We can give families more help with home care and visiting nurses, giving the families and the patients the spiritual, emotional, and financial help in order to facilitate the final care at home.”

Tell the truth like this and ya get the real cool spooky surveillance stuff and vigilante gangstalking. Highly entertaining even though it could get me accidented. Man I'm an asshole and wear it proudly when it comes to dealing with $ocio-psychopaths that call the shots.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I attempted to respond to your thread with a personal story...I was unable to shorten it enough to inject it.
I eliminated a lot of it and it seemed to lose some of my point.
I thought it might help someone...

I still have mixed feelings about my experience and probably never will come to grips with it...

This was a great thread! Thank you!

a reply to: TNMockingbird

This subject is the original "Horse on the Dining Room Table". In fact, one of the books I read was entitled "The Horse on the Dining Room Table", and that was the first time I'd ever heard that expression.

I have had three personal experiences too. I lost my BFF last January, and I still miss her so much. She died within 10 minutes of her final morphine dose. When it's that personal you want to both embrace it, and slap it away. So conflicting.

I have written up my three experiences, and haven't posted them because it feels so self-indulgent some how.

Think about re-posting your experience. If you will, I will. But if it's too painful, I understand. I think just writing mine maybe acted as catharsis somehow . But I also think first hand experiences can give others insight into what to do, if they are faced with it themselves, or with a love one.

a reply to: superluminal11

Man I'm an asshole and wear it proudly when it comes to dealing with $ocio-psychopaths that call the shots.

Not sure what you mean? Are you saying Hospice ideologies and services are sociopathic for their actions, or because they receive monies?
Or what? Please clarify.

I'll do this in sections because I just couldn't shorten it enough!
I flagged this yesterday. I wanted to think for a bit before responding. It's risky to put your "personal stuff" out there for strangers to peruse, possibly denounce your actions, and criticize your decisions. Maybe I can contribute in some small way...maybe it will only serve to be cathartic for me. I'll try to be as brief as possible...
Mom was handicapped and unable to live alone. Mom had a myriad of health issues since she was very young. It was truly amazing that she lived to be 93 as she was not expected to recover from an extreme medical incident that occurred when she was 14. She did recover and she was a fighter in more ways than one.
She went into the hospital with pneumonia (well that was what they came up with at that time as they were really UNSURE of what exactly was going on with her) in May of last year. She spent a week. Two antibiotics were given I.V. She seemed to recover and was sent home. Toward the end of July, my kids called me at work to say that she was having trouble breathing and she wanted me. I rushed home and she did not appear to be having difficulty breathing C/O tightness in her chest and feeling "woozy" (DX of CHF and COPD, never smoked). I called her PCP I had no idea at that time that this was the beginning of the end.

The results of the X-Rays were pneumonia (AGAIN) and she should go direct admit to the ER. So again, antibiotics were administered; she seemed to recover again in a week. The Doctor and I agreed to send her to a local Nursing Home for 30 day rehab. We had used this N.H. years before and it was a good experience. The rehab was for "skilled" monitoring, O2 therapy, antibiotics, and to give her the opportunity to get a little stronger as the summer break was over and she would be alone at home some. I felt it was the best choice for her at the time.
I tried to spend as much time as possible with her. I would go in the morning for a couple of hours, go back at lunch time, go back around dinner time and stay until 8 or 9 at night. One Sunday morning (after she had been there about 4 days) I didn't make it until after breakfast was served and the trays taken away. After sitting with her a time, I noticed she didn't have her bottom dentures in. I asked her where they were as I would clean them and give them back to her. She said "I don't know". This was very alarming as Mom would occasionally take them out, if they bothered her and have me clean them and put them right back in. She was a very proud woman and felt she looked funny w/o them. Anyway we/I searched high and low. I went to the Aide who directed me to the Asst. Dir. who would then speak with housekeeping and kitchen. I didn't panic immediately as I had no idea at that time the consequences of the disappearing dentures.
Within a few days (3), Mom had stopped eating or drinking. She refused anything with "thick-it". She began to hallucinate and speak "out of her mind". I demanded tests. The next morning I waited on the Doctor who informed me that Mom was in what appeared to be Stage 4 Renal Failure and severely dehydrated. He was unsure how this could have happened and was calling an ambulance. See, the Renal Failure was a big issue as Mom had had a complete nephrectomy when she was in her 20s. Trying to shorten this up guys, really I am!

She entered the hospital on a Thursday and Friday evening the Doctors told me that the Poison from the "non working" kidney had poisoned her brain, and the kidney was not repairable. She had also entered into uncontrollable AFIB. They had administered a catheter upon arrival and the bag was filling with dark fluid even though they were hydrating her via I.V.
She began to swell. Her breathing was becoming more labored and she began to fight the I.Vs, the aide, and me. I had the I.V. removed. She had to be restrained and they were administering morphine every 4 hours as needed which is a tricky thing to do when you are also pushing digoxin (yes, I am aware of the risk.). Mom’s heart rate would soar into the 180s and fall into the 30s. Her breathing would go from rapid and shallow to deep and a minute or more would pass between breaths. He told me he believed the end was near and I should consider Hospice as THIS was not the place to die. He felt it would be quick and I would look back and say "At least Mom didn't suffer long".

I met with him on Saturday and Sunday before I could even comprehend the situation. On Monday I met with Hospice and on Tuesday I brought her home. When this happened I was in a fog of sorts. Struggling to keep my wits about me, do what's best for her (what I thought), and follow her living will. Taking into consideration my 5 kids and how they would feel if Mom-Mom passed at home. Could we all handle this? Was it beyond our capabilities? Isn't it my responsibility to care for her until the end? To never leave her side? To let her know I am here and I am doing whatever I can? To comfort her? Didn't she do this for me? When she adopted me when she was 49? When I was so sick no one else wanted me? When I got angry and left home at 15 and didn't speak to her for years? Am I strong enough? Is this what's really best for her? I AM NOT A DOCTOR OR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER!!!!! WHY WHY WHY? If this is the end why doesn't God or whoever just take her so she and I don't have to have this experience.....I'm not going to make it, I am going to die with her....I CAN'T DO THIS!!!!
I never left her side except to use the bathroom and smoke. My S.O. took off of work and took care of the mundane household stuff that needed to be done no matter what was happening behind her closed bedroom door. I was never told she could not eat or drink if she was able to do so but, it can have negative effects, I never withheld water until Mom refused it. I administered the very low dose of morphine every four hours (not PRN) as she had been prescribed pain meds for years and had a very high tolerance. Also, because of my profession, I know that you must maintain a certain level in your system for it to be as effective as possible. She had XANAX for agitation which I felt she needed two times. Toward the end the morphine administration had increased to every 30 minutes. She died a horrible death. It would have been horrible in the hospital or nursing home too. My sister finally arrived on Friday night and her medical background helped some and Mom passed away early Sunday morning. At one point towards the end, my sister and S.O. had used the O2 tubing to create a suction to relieve some of the fluid which was now at the top of her lungs. It was a terrible way to die. She essentially drowned in her own fluid and poison. People would say to me after "at least she lived a long life". Really? She may have been 93 and lived a long time but, she wasn't supposed to die then. We don't know when we are supposed to die but, I hope you know what I mean.

The Doctor was right "she didn't suffer long" in MY world of "length of time" but, she did suffer. It was horrific for all involved. Horrific. I could NOT do it again. Maybe with someone who is NOT my Mother. I do not believe that anyone else could have given her the care and attention that I did. It was my responsibility and I did it. BUT, and it’s a big one…I wouldn’t wish that death or the job of being there on any one. It is NOT for the faint of heart or weak minded. Did I hasten death by administering the morphine? If I did, is that bad? Why should someone suffer longer or more so I don’t have guilt? If someone is going to die then making it as easy for them as possible is bad why? I don’t know, I’ll have to live with the choices I’ve made. I dove head first into depression, went on anti-depressants, different cocktails, and even considered ending things for myself. Mom has gone on…why can’t I?
I only know for sure that unless you’ve been THERE, you have no idea…where you are when the decisions have to be made, where you will be after making them, and where you’ll be when it’s all over…

I really DID try to shorten it up!

a reply to: TNMockingbird

Thank you TNM for sharing your story. Firstly, your mother was lucky to have a daughter as loving, caring, and thoughtful as you. I did weep through some of it, especially the part where you put yourself through such intense soul searching and questioning. That hit home. I also heard the words "I can't do this" coming from my own mouth as I watched the BP machine in ICU drop to 15/7. Everything became surreal. It was fast. Two weeks earlier we were sitting in the Olive Garden cracking jokes. Then this. I wasn't prepared. I walked around in her room like I was in control; I was strong, you know, like her. When what I really wanted to do was fall apart. I just wanted to be alone and fall apart, and nobody would know. I told myself constantly put one foot in front of the other.

You said the death was hard, but that it would have been so in a NH, or Hospital too. Yes it would have.
A friends mother died of COPD. When it was over she said watching her suffer was the hardest part. She felt a sense of peace and relief when it was over. It is a disease that a rough end is well known.

I would be thankful at the end, if it were me, to have someone who cared enough to put those drops in my mouth.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Thank you!
I really did think we had prepared for everything
Will-check
Living will-check
Advanced Directives-check
Power of Attorney-check
NOT dying in her sleep-uh-oh!
We (the kids and I) had wheeled her down the backyard to go fishing just days before.
I am so lost without her. Oh if I could only hold her one more time! But that's selfish. She is at rest wherever that may be.
You have to learn to go on with all of the guilt and pain and junk that is your existence now.
When my time comes I hope to have the strength to leave on my own. But, sometimes you don't have time to make those decisions for yourself. I would want to have a caretaker (a paid one if necessary) that was not my children. I wouldn't want them to have to experience this.
I've gotten better. I'm healing I suppose. I don't cry EVERY day and am more able to stop myself when the obsessions start. I don't medicate EVERY day. I can't just "check out" that's not fair to my kids.
I get "lost" in this website. It helps ME to read about others lives and brings me back to reality (believe it or not) so I can focus on my reality. LOL THAT doesn't make any sense but, maybe you know what I mean!

a reply to: TNMockingbird

I appreciate your posting your experience also. I wonder how long it has been since she passed away? I am ashamed for anyone to know how long it took me to get over losing my own mother.

a reply to: angeldoll


Thank you!
It will be a year in August...

a reply to: TNMockingbird

I know it was a good two years before I started feeling better. All those images in my head, you know.

___________

Bobbi Christina Brown has moved into a hospice in the last couple days. Her care will now be focused on keeping her comfortable. She will have an easy passing, hopefully. Heard Dr. Drew talking about it yesterday, and he is guessing it will be about ten days. I don't know how he is arriving at that figure. I think it will be before then.

I've been through this 3 times; the first with my cousin when her oldest son was strangled and found unconscious. They just happened to fly him to the hospital near me. It was a situation where there was little to no chance of him ever gaining consciousness and the decision was to keep him alive or not. So I had to talk with his mother, his father and his brother who naturally had a hard time letting go. That was rough and in the end they made the choice to let him go. He was due to attend the Naval Academy in just 2 months.

Next were both of my parents who died 2 years apart. Both had a long decline due to cancer and both received hospice care. My dad passed at home and hospice made sure he was comfortable and was a great comfort to the family as well. My mother suffered horribly and without hospice I would have been tempted to help her pass over myself. Again it was due to hospice that she could receive enough pain relief (other facilities are limited in the amounts they can give patients - this is important when your loved one is a facility). When she passed we all let out a collective sigh of relief. That generation that grew up during the depression are very tough people and they don't let go of life easily.

I think hospice is a fantastic resource however I would never want it forced on anyone. So long as it's voluntary I'm all for it.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I have ambivalent feelings towards it as well, but still I am comforted to know it's there for situations like your cousin's son, and your Mom. (and Bobbie Christina) It's an alternative for sure.

I hope the political environment in the country doesn't become one in which it's forced to change. So many people don't understand what it really is. Full comprehension could lead to ....... dissent and protests.