The Confederate flag should be taken down and burned.

originally posted by: muse7
It does not represent "Southern Heritage".

It represents tyranny, it represents one of the darkest times this country has gone through in it's entire history. It represents a Government that went to war to keep people enslaved in the cotton fields, to prevent them from being treated like actual human beings instead of like livestock. That tolerated and encouraged lynchings and public hangings.

It represents an ideology that revolves around hate.

The truth is that South Carolina's Confederate flag was only raised above the statehouse in 1962—to show defiance to the powerful civil rights movement, to proclaim white superiority. And it is still there for that reason.

I have to ask... So, a Confederate flag is bad, I expect an old South African flag is bad, however, is owning and flying an Israeli flag ok? I am just testing the water to see how many hypocrites are in for swim ;-)

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: Kali74

How much history does your family have invested in this country USA, because I don't want to be debating US rights with a French person.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: AboveBoard

I totally disagree, leaving it up at government buildings is a statement that the people's representation is okay with racism and longs for the good old days of slavery.

And once again, because YOU find it offensive, you automatically assume everyone else does
There is no way possible that you can speak for all American citizens

Not everyone sees the flag and think of racism
But we all get that YOU do....loud and clear

a reply to: muse7

A flag is only a symbol. Banning a symbol is idiotic. Banning a swastika is idiotic. The swastika dates back centuries, specifically Jainism and other religions. Banning the confederate flag is also against the 1st Ammendment. Will we start banning and burning books that go against what is right? Imagine all the shows on TV and books about war and murder and drugs and slavery and torture, ban those too then, they perpetuate the same emotion. Banning a flag based on its history is not going to defeat any purpose that credits the reasoning behind it. Might as well throw out the 1st ammendment too, it doesn't belong if people cannot express themselves how they wish. A flag does not commit a crime, the person who may represent themself with it may, but not everyone does.

To Southerners, it was the Union that represented tyranny, not the stars and bars. The Confederate flag represented resistance to the tyranny of the North.

History is written by the victors, but if you're searching for the truth, there's ALWAYS more than one side to a story.

*ETA*
Anyone that believes that the Civil War was fought solely over the issue of slavery, has been done an injustice during their education.

Here's a timeline for you:

Civil war begins in 1861

Emancipation Proclamation is given in 1863

13th Amendment passes the House on January 31, 1865

Civil war ends in 1865 on 5/9/1865, though the last shot was fired at the end of June, 1865.

originally posted by: snarky412

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: AboveBoard

I totally disagree, leaving it up at government buildings is a statement that the people's representation is okay with racism and longs for the good old days of slavery.

And once again, because YOU find it offensive, you automatically assume everyone else does
There is no way possible that you can speak for all American citizens

Not everyone sees the flag and think of racism
But we all get that YOU do....loud and clear

If I was a mod I would give you an applause.

She's (like the OP) asking for a ban on something that some people find offensive, or simply don't understand. Without naming names here, it's clear that some people would like an un-realistic "utopia" in which everything is banned that they don't like.

I see this as no different than people who want to see all religion banned, gone, no more religion, period. It really doesn't matter what ones opinion is on religion, but.... If we use religion as an example, then we would see more religious folks coming out of the woodwork just due to the simple fact that it was made illegal to be religious.

I'd rather live in a world where people are allowed to hold whatever opinions they believe represent their values (in this case, a symbolic flag) just so long as crossing the line of harming others is not part of the equation. IE, anyone who commits physical violence against another should always be met with the full extent of the law.

The fact that we are even seriously having this conversation due to a lone psycho, is beyond scary. People need to simmer down, or that police state which we have all come to fear, just might come true after all.

The Stars and Bars is a different flag than the battle flag (incorrectly called the Confederate Flag)

"Designed by William Porcher Miles, the chairman of the Flag and Seal committee, a now-popular variant of the Confederate flag was rejected as the national flag in 1861. It was instead adopted as a battle flag by the Army of Northern Virginia under General Lee.[30] Despite never having historically represented the CSA as a country nor officially recognized as one of the national flags, it is commonly referred to as "the Confederate Flag" and has become a widely recognized symbol of the American south.[31] It is also known as the rebel flag, Dixie flag, and Southern cross and is often incorrectly referred to as the "Stars and Bars" (the actual "Stars and Bars" is the first national flag, which used an entirely different design).[32] The self-declared Confederate enclave of Town Line, New York, lacking a genuine Confederate flag, flew a version of this flag prior to its 1946 vote to ceremonially rejoin the Union."

Source:
en.wikipedia.org...

This is what I think of when I see the confederate flag.




At best, one should ask her if she will take her flag off for you alone. But to cry out to a large group that it should be 'taken down' and 'burned' is ... well it is rather like a witch hunt. Have we not grown out of calling for witch hunts?


Mike Grouchy

Eradicating a flag will solve exactly nothing.

Getting people out of their close-minded little shells is what will solve problems. Walking a mile in anothers shoes, if you will.

Nothing less will ever work. People have to want to change, you can't force them to.

a reply to: mikegrouchy

I think of the General Lee in the Dukes of Hazard but that car today would be politically incorrect unless it was pink with black and yellow safety stripes and a big rainbow on the bonnet and driven by a transvestite.

a reply to: Wookiep


Ah yes, Utopia...I've heard of that place, just down the road if I'm not mistaken

Not all that it's cracked up to be, from what I hear
Many complain about the unicorns crapping on their lawn, which put off carbon gas emissions
And the fairies with all their pixie dust gets all over the place, messing up one's allergies

Meh, I'll stick with the real world, thank you very much!!

a reply to: charlyv

I was merely making a point. I like my homeland and the ideals we founded it on. However one cannot ignore the destruction we have caused in the name of the flag and the hypocracy that follows it.

Blind allegiance to a country is dangerous because leadership and laws change. I prefer to have allegiance to ideals.

originally posted by: snarky412
a reply to: Wookiep


Ah yes, Utopia...I've heard of that place, just down the road if I'm not mistaken

Not all that it's cracked up to be, from what I hear
Many complain about the unicorns crapping on their lawn, which put off carbon gas emissions

Meh, I'll stick with the real world

Same here. I'm a realist, after all.

You DO know what you call the 'Confederate flag' was originally called the 'Confederate Battle Flag', correct?
THIS is the REAL Confederate flag:


The reason the Battle Flag flies over the state capital maybe to represent those that died in the war, as a memorial maybe?

a reply to: HomerinNC

The reason the Battle Flag flies over the state capital maybe to represent those that died in the war, as a memorial maybe?

Oh horrors no, that will mess up others narrow-minded ideals of what it may actually represent
/sarcasm


Seriously tho, thanks for sharing!

As long as people feel insecure about themselves, they'll hate and degrade other people. In other words, racism will continue.

That's really what it comes down to, feelings of insecurity and fear. A flag doesn't cause racism, insecure and frightened people do.

Here's what I think about it.

a reply to: Khaleesi

Although the Benny Hill theme surely gave an odd perspective to those who enjoy "raving" (I lol'ed, although I once loved going to raves), would you mind adding a bit more to the point of your post? Funny post tho, I'm still laughing, just want to hear more from you about it. Thanks!

originally posted by: muse7
It does not represent "Southern Heritage".

It represents tyranny, it represents one of the darkest times this country has gone through in it's entire history. It represents a Government that went to war to keep people enslaved in the cotton fields, to prevent them from being treated like actual human beings instead of like livestock. That tolerated and encouraged lynchings and public hangings.

It represents an ideology that revolves around hate.

The truth is that South Carolina's Confederate flag was only raised above the statehouse in 1962—to show defiance to the powerful civil rights movement, to proclaim white superiority. And it is still there for that reason.

I would only like to mention that flag burning is a particularly ironic form of protest. Official flag etiquette actually proscribes burning as the honorable way.to properly dispose of a flag no longer fit for display. I only point this out because, seeing as you obviously don't see the Confederate flag as fit to be displayed, you are calling for it to maintain it's honor in it's demise.
Just a thought.

originally posted by: Greathouse
There is a misconception about the Civil War. The majority of southerners that fought in it did not own slaves. To the common people it was not so much about slavery as it was to states rights .

You might want to tell all the southern racists that now.
Unfortunately, even though that might be true from a historical perspective, that flag is now predominantly about racism, hate, ignorance and the threat of violence.

As someone else has said, the only place for that flag is in a museum, to commemorate exactly what you say it meant back then. That is no longer what that flag represents. These people have done this to themselves and they have tarnished what that flag meant for a lot of people.

Having said all of that, I think the flag is now going to become even more divisive, and I think it should. People flying it are now making a conscious choice to be associated to what it NOW represents. Regardless of what people want to selectively claim it means, to the consciousness of the nation it represents the worst of racist America.

If people choose to keep displaying it knowing what it now represents to most people, they deserve all the condemnation they get.