Eunuchs who were born that way

Matthew 19
12 For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.”

Here we see Jesus saying that some are born eunuchs from their mother's womb, some have speculated that this is referring to homosexuals because eunuchs never married nor had sexual relations with women just as homosexuals. But is this true? Hopefully I can shed some light on this topic.

First, let's look at the etymology of the word eunuch.

"castrated man," late 14c., from Middle French eunuque and directly from Latin eunuchus, from Greek eunoukhos "castrated man," originally "guard of the bedchamber or harem," from euno-, comb. form of eune "bed," a word of unknown origin, + -okhos, from stem of ekhein "to have, hold"

The etymology of the word eunuch originally meant a guardsman of a bedchamber or harem. What is a harem?

harem (n)
the part of a Muslim palace or house reserved for the residence of women.

So a harem is the part of the house that was reserved for women only, it was their bedchamber. In this case harem and bedchamber can be used interchangeably.

A strictly female room? Is there some symbolic meaning behind this idea? I think so.

Earth is sometimes called "Mother", it is the feminine aspect of existence. It is the "womb" of creation, the space that we as individuals are developed within after birth. All experience comes from our Mother Earth (and universe). It is what gives us wisdom (and even ignorance) through the experiences it allows, which is why wisdom is called "Sophia" in some of Solomon's books in the OT, because like I said, Mother Earth (wisdom) is the feminine aspect of creation. What is within the creation, the Spirit of all living things is the masculine aspect, it is the "sperm" that penetrates the "egg" or body (Mother) in order to create life.

Back to eunuchs, a eunuch means a guard of the bedchamber or harem. As I have explained, the bedchamber/harem can be seen as the Earth, the feminine "room" that is creation. What do guards do? Not allow people to enter, so a eunuch is one who doesn't allow anyone to enter the bedchamber/harem.

Those made eunuchs by man are those who are castrated so that they may not procreate, those who choose to be eunuchs are those who practice celibacy and do not procreate, and those who were eunuchs from birth are those who are.... homosexual. A homosexual does not procreate the vast majority of the time, this non-procreation is what does not allow people to enter the bedchamber/harem, a homosexual is metaphorically a eunuch from birth because they guard anyone from entering (being born into) the bedchamber/harem through their non-procreation.

So those who say homosexuality is a choice, I think Jesus implies that the opposite is true and that they are in fact born that way. Jesus also says that those who choose to be eunuchs (celibacy) do it for the kingdom of heaven's sake, so I think those born eunuchs (homosexual) are doing heaven a favor according to Jesus' own words.

Thanks for reading.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
That's quite a stretch, there OP. You still have to get around the old testament law forbidding cross-dressing and same gender relations, as well as new testament epistles. I know you don't like Paul, but most Christians consider his epistles part of scripture.
I have done some reading on the word eunuch, and I'm not seeing it. Those born that way are taken to have birth defects which prevent them from having children. I do however, find it interesting that Jesus was silent on the matter.

a reply to: Klassified

That's also a possibility, that those born eunuchs had birth defects, but I don't think that explanation discounts homosexuality altogether. Those who are born homosexual can be seen as natural born eunuchs by the fact they do not marry. Etymologically, marry can mean "to give offspring in marriage", a.k.a. procreation.

I don't state is as a fact, I just thought the connection was interesting. You may not see it but I do.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I get it OP. Your point is clear. I agree with you completly.

I think the Catholic Church tried this approach and we can see how well it worked for them.

a reply to: ketsuko

Are you talking about the pedophilia that has run rampant in the RCC? If so, you cannot equate raping children against their will with two consenting adults having sex.

Forcing yourself on a child or two adults consenting with one another? Which one is worse? If you can't see the difference then I'm sorry, but there most definitely is one, a HUGE one.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I'm having some trouble understanding the worldview here.
Is it a gender duality female/male - material/spirit?

Sophia - Wisdom is female. The worldview you present seems rather mixed. Can you clarify?

In Pistis Sophia it is written:

Bartholomew said: “A man who hath intercourse with a male, what is his vengeance?”

Jesus said, “The measure of the man who hath intercourse with males and of the man with whom he lieth, is the same as that of the blasphemer.*

“When then the time is completed through the sphere, the receivers of Yaldabaoth come after their soul, and he with his forty-and-nine demons taketh vengeance on it eleven years.

“Thereafter they carry it to the fire-rivers and seething pitch-seas, which are full of demons with pigs’ faces. They eat into them and take vengeance on [?] them in the fire-rivers another eleven years.

“Thereafter they carry them into the outer darkness until the day of judgment when the great darkness is judged; and then they will be dissolved and destroyed.”

I've got no idea who takes Pistis Sophia seriously. I got the quote from a kabbalah/gnostic website.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I'm pointing out that the Catholic Church tried the Eunuch route with their priests. It didn't work.

And eunuchs are not homosexuals, never have been. And according to the current version of the homosexual lobby, you cannot be made gay by men. So that shoots a whole in your argument.

Eunuchs are castrates in one way or another.

a reply to: pthena

In a way, yes. Two sides of a coin (material/Mother and spirit/Father) coming together to create the one coin (image/Son). There is a dual nature to existence, but that duality can be transcended to see the unity within all things.

As for the Pistis Sophia passage, man lying with man is blasphemy, not in the literal sense but in a metaphorical sense. When a man lies with a man it means to believe in man made dogma. The church claims to be the bride of Christ, yet it is run by men. When someone believes in their doctrine, they are believing in a lie, they are substituting the true bride (Earth) with the adulterer/whore that is the church who claims to be the body when in actuality it is the Earth that constitutes our body.

A spirit (male) or person believing in church doctrine (run by men) is man lying with man. To believe in the true bride (Earth) and the wisdom that she gives us is man lying with woman. The church is blasphemy, which is why Jesus says man lying with man is "like" the blasphemer.

What does Earth teach us? Cycles. Everything works in cycles, to equate the Earthly cycles to ourselves is to align with the wisdom of Sophia. This life is only one among an infinite cycle of birth, death, and rebirth. Reincarnation.

The etymology of wisdom comes from the Proto-Germanic root word weid- which means "to see". What is seen? The world around us. Earth is wisdom personified, a.k.a. Sophia. She is the true bride, not the church. To believe in false wisdom is to commit adultery and for man to "lie" with man.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I think the Catholic Church tried this approach and we can see how well it worked for them.

I'm trying to read up on the subject.

Roman Catholicism had many philosophical views as input. Some not quite meshing harmoniously. The tendency was to think of asceticism as better than mundane living, sort of spirit greater than matter. That led to celibacy being held as better than sexuality.

That could be seen as a mistake, since people seem, anecdotally, to be sexual.

a reply to: ketsuko

So making someone be celibate is harmful in the long run? Since priests didn't marry they resorted to child molestation. Is that your argument? Honest question. If so, what makes you think homosexual celibacy would end up any different or less harmful? You advocate homosexuals never having sex with the same gender correct? So what makes you any different from the Catholic Church in that regard?

There is the literal eunuch and the metaphorical eunuch. The one made by man is the literal eunuch, the one who is castrated by someone else. The metaphorical is the one born a eunuch naturally, a homosexual.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The etymology of wisdom comes from the Proto-Germanic root word weid- which means "to see". What is seen? The world around us. Earth is wisdom personified, a.k.a. Sophia. She is the true bride, not the church. To believe in false wisdom is to commit adultery and for man to "lie" with man.

What if Gnosticism itself is a male dominated worldview. It would make sense to a man. A woman may have a big problem seeing female role as the acted upon rather than actor in her own right

For disclosure, I've been reading a bit of Women written religious thoughts, I'm beginning to wonder if men and women naturally have different religious views even when they apparently have the same religion.

Plus, I don't think I've ever really understood Gnosticism. On the other thread, I said I was drawing a blank. I guess I'll have to understand even more worldviews before I can have an informed opinion.

a reply to: pthena

I think Gnosticism is too complicated, it has truth in it but it is way too convoluted for my tastes. I'm not a Gnostic and don't claim to fully understand it, but there are bits and pieces that I can understand.

And as far as a female role being acted upon, it can be seen that way if you consider the fact that without the spirit or animating force within a body it is no longer animated. Just like where there is no wind there are no leaves rustling, only when that wind "acts upon" those leaves do they animate. The body is acted upon by the spirit, the female acted upon by the male.

This is to say nothing of a female being weaker or anything like that, even females have a masculine spirit, just as a man has a feminine body (in the metaphorical senses).

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

People made themselves eunchs to prevent themselves from committing adultery. Homosexuals can still commit adultery with their own gender. So how is a homosexual considered a eunuch in the Biblical sense of the word?

a reply to: pthena

There do seem to be some people who just don't want to have sex. Asexual or something, I think it's called, and it could be those people whom Christ was referring to. Of course, there could also be those who are able to control their urges and channel them away from the sexual too like the Catholic priesthood wants.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: ketsuko

So making someone be celibate is harmful in the long run? Since priests didn't marry they resorted to child molestation. Is that your argument? Honest question. If so, what makes you think homosexual celibacy would end up any different or less harmful? You advocate homosexuals never having sex with the same gender correct? So what makes you any different from the Catholic Church in that regard?

There is the literal eunuch and the metaphorical eunuch. The one made by man is the literal eunuch, the one who is castrated by someone else. The metaphorical is the one born a eunuch naturally, a homosexual.

I advocate controlling your urges.

You should be in control NOT your libido.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Matt 19:9“And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

      10The disciples said to Him, “If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.” 11But He said to them, “Not all men canaccept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. 12“For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

Again, the context is adultery. A man who unjustifiably divorces his wife and remarries is committing adultery. Homosexuality is not part of the conversation.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

What about those who were born eunuchs?

a reply to: ketsuko

That's what the RCC advocates with their priests. Like you said, we see how that turned out.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

They dont have the burden of sexual temptation, neither homo or hetero