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Is it time we worked together yet on our "gun problem"?

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posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:29 AM
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First and foremost, I want to state that my thoughts and prayers are with the victims in this horrible tragedy. I also hope we can all (pro and anti firearm) work together on this issue.

The United States has hundreds of laws currently on the books for firearm related crimes. Yet, despite all of our laws, deranged people do not adhere to our laws. Also of note, the very vast majority of firearm related crimes are committed by repeat criminals, or folks that shouldn't have firearms in the first place. Instead of working together on this issue, we bicker back and forth on hyperbole and rhetoric. This action leads us nowhere. Lets hear what our President has to say on this current shooting...



“More than 11,000 Americans were killed by gun violence in 2013 alone — 11,000. If Congress had passed some common-sense gun safety reforms after Newtown, after a group of children had been gunned down in their own classroom — reforms that 90 percent of the American people supported – we wouldn’t have prevented every act of violence, or even most,” the president continued. “We don’t know if it would have prevented what happened in Charleston. No reform can guarantee the elimination of violence. But we might still have some more Americans with us.”

“We might have stopped one shooter,”


I disagree with his 90% claim, but I do agree that no reform or legislation will/can guarantee the elimination of violence. That's about as "common sense" as we can get. He also said...


“You don’t see murder on this kind of scale, with this kind of frequency, in any other advanced nation on Earth,” Obama continued. “Every country has violent, hateful, or mentally unstable people. What’s different is not every country is awash with easily accessible guns.


Well, saying the US is the only Nation on Earth with this "problem" is where the hyperbole starts.

www.theguardian.com...
www.washingtonpost.com...



• The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people
• But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people
• Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean


Can we please put an end to the US being the only Country with firearm related issues rhetoric? It's simply not true and divides us on the real issue we face. And that issue is not enforcing our current law to their maximum extent. Until we all work together and DEMAND that our current laws are enforced to their maximum extent, nothing will change. EVER!

This latest shooting was the result of a person who was not eligible to own a firearm, being given a firearm as a gift and committing another tragedy.www.truthrevolt.org...


Roof was charged with felony possession in February, 2015:

According to South Carolina court documents exclusively obtained by Radar, Roof, 21, was arrested in Lexington County on felony charges of possession of coc aine, methamphetamine and '___' on February 28, 2015.

This alone disqualified him from legal carry and purchase of a firearm. In South Carolina, you only have to be charged with a felony to lose your 2A right. Roof would have failed a background check to purchase a firearm.

So how did Roof obtain the gun used in the mass homicide at the church? Not legally. Loesch notes:

It was reported that his father purchased him a handgun for his 21st birthday. Roof's birthday is listed as April 4, 1994. His 21st birthday was this past April. Two months after he's charged with a felony his father buys him a gun? This means if his father purchased a gun for his birthday it was a straw purchase, a felony, punishable by up to 10 years in jail and a $250,000 fine.


We ALL need to make sure this mans Father is held responsible for his illegal "straw purchase" of this firearm. This crime has serious consequences and should not be swept under the rug. I haven't seen any MSM outlet, politician, or anyone for that matter, demanding this man be held liable for his actions. Why is that?

This is the case time and time again. Someone commits a crime, ( a crime that's illegal) and we fight among ourselves the pros and cons of passing new laws to combat crime. We simply talk in circles. No new laws or regulations will stop any of this madness. We must work together and demand that our current laws are enforced.

When someone commits a crime with a firearm, they must face the maximum penalty. Period. I know I'm being redundant, but my plea to everyone is to put your personal beliefs aside and work together, to ensure that these people are held liable for their actions.

This young mans Father is responsible for the death of nine people, he must be held accountable. If we don't demand this, we will continue to have these tragedies.

I don't want mass shootings, or any unlawful shootings for that matter, but I also don't want my rights infringed in any way. I understand that I sound selfish, but any new laws or regulations only affect us law abiding people. Not the deranged people that do these horrific deeds.

So what do y'all think. Can we work together and demand that our current laws are enforced to their maximum extent, or do we want to let these tragedies continue and simply argue semantics?

And please don't turn this into a "civilians don't need ______ type firearms". That is another subject and one I don't want to debate. The very vast majority of those debates are with folks that have zero knowledge of firearms and it pains me to inform people on firearms, only to be ignored.

Thanks for reading and Flame on...



+7 more 
posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:36 AM
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a reply to: KawRider9

You may want to live in a country where your government takes your firearms and stomps all over the 2nd amendment, but I don't. And I have never owned or used a firearm. But I want to keep my right to own one.

More they take, the less you have. So give yours away freely. As for MY rights. I am keeping them, thank you.


+22 more 
posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:44 AM
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I think we have more of a prescription medication problem.

All of these shooter crazy types are on SSRI's.

SSRI Stories
edit on 20-6-2015 by Bobaganoosh because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: Ultralight

A star for you. I was going to say just that.


+3 more 
posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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The problem with statistics is they are subject to lots of variables.

Most of the gun violence is gang related or thugs killing thugs. Meh.

The U.S. would be near the bottom of gun violence if it weren't for the cities of Detroit, Baltimore, New Orleans, and Oakland. I'll leave it for someone else to analyze the reasons for THAT.

Our politically correct hyper sensitivity to calling out the real problems related to violence prevent us from addressing the issue. Those that don't want to look things square in the eye just want to scream about taking away our Second Amendment Right and slapping more gun control on law-abiding citizens.

We already have in place what we need legally to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. It just needs to be enforced properly.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:50 AM
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Didn't even make it one response before the rhetoric started.

Amazing.

Yes, it is time. It has been time for a while. The problem is large swaths of people on both sides of the issue CAN'T stop resorting to rhetoric and hyperbole.

One side sees "better background checks" as "ohmigod they want to take all my guns and put me in a FEMA camp!" while the other side sees it as "ohmigod he wants to buy a suppressor for his 155mm howitzer to kill children!"

And until people change that particular default setting, it's not going to get anywhere.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: Ultralight

Huh? Did you see where I said "I don't want my rights infringed in any way"?

I could easily be considered a gun nut by many here. I am VERY pro second amendment and don't want my rights infringed.

I simply want people that commit firearm related crimes to receive the maximum punishment. No ifs and or butts.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:53 AM
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originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: KawRider9

You may want to live in a country where your government takes your firearms and stomps all over the 2nd amendment, but I don't. And I have never owned or used a firearm. But I want to keep my right to own one.

More they take, the less you have. So give yours away freely. As for MY rights. I am keeping them, thank you.


I don't think you understood the OP, he wasn't advocating additional 2nd admendment infringing laws.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:53 AM
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S&F

Very good points, and nicely said of your side of things.

Personally I see; those committing the crimes, are not indivdual who are fit for firearms, or shady events that look and have trails to be false flag events to strip rights.

What bothers me; American leaders have been trying to incrimentally take away, the firearm rights of its citizens.
Yet, they are arming their police Forces as if they are fighting front lines of a military war/battle.

If you want less citizens to have guns, it doesn't help by arming your system robots (police, security, patrol) to the teeth, with modern weapons and gear.

It's hypocritical.

My view on people to own gun rights; the standard tests and background checks should be very strict, and only those who show; mental, physical and emotional balance and strengths, should be able to pass.

Anone can complete a written test, use a gun and display practical knowledge of fire arm use, shoot some targets...

It's about mental, physical and emotional balance IMHO.
Guns don't kill people, human minds and emotions trigger,(pun intended) to use their bodies and wield a firearm, to shoot it with intention.

That's a fact.

One last thing, a lot of these criminals in shootings, are YOUNG! What is happening to our youth in past decades to present, to future.. it's discriminating as the human species.

Our young, are the future. They are being fed violence, bad diets, brainwash through television and holloywood, rap, hip hop, and the poor conditions of growing up "in da hood, in da ghetto mon"...

So back to the leaders of the nation's people and their collective system, society. ..

Fix society, fix the conditions of the "lower" class, lower paradigms of society. The s# I see on TV and hear in music, is penetrsting our youths minds.

Clean up society and lead by example. Less guns for citizens? Less guns for police/security/patrol.

Mentally unstable, unbalanced people? Take one look at the rap/hip-hop industry and see where these youth are getting influenced.

Might seem off topic, but it's not when viewing the larger picture.

Thanks for the thread

edit on 20-6-2015 by Elementalist because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: KawRider9

I'm reading reports that his father did not purchase the gun for him, but rather, he gave him money for his birthday and Roof went out and bought the gun. If this is correct, then the system in place dropped the ball.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:58 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
Didn't even make it one response before the rhetoric started.

Amazing.

Yes, it is time. It has been time for a while. The problem is large swaths of people on both sides of the issue CAN'T stop resorting to rhetoric and hyperbole.

One side sees "better background checks" as "ohmigod they want to take all my guns and put me in a FEMA camp!" while the other side sees it as "ohmigod he wants to buy a suppressor for his 155mm howitzer to kill children!"

And until people change that particular default setting, it's not going to get anywhere.


It's called debate. It's called national dialogue. It's called a conversation. Got it? What exactly were you expecting?



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 11:00 AM
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Gotta love posts that speak of our "gun problem". Sounds as if guns are revolting against people or taking over people's minds and have an agenda to wipe out humankind.A "gun" (should read weapon) is an inert object that cannot interact with the world without assistance from something else.They do not all of a sudden determine they are going to fire and act accordingly. I think the OPs title should read "Is it time we worked together yet on our "people problem"?



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 11:04 AM
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originally posted by: KawRider9

The United States has hundreds of laws currently on the books for firearm related crimes. Yet, despite all of our laws, deranged people do not adhere to our laws. Also of note, the very vast majority of firearm related crimes are committed by repeat criminals, or folks that shouldn't have firearms in the first place.


Do you mean law enforcement?



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: Gothmog

I put "gun problem" in quotes because that's how our media and politicians refer to it. Throughout my entire post I called them what they are, firearms. Did you read it or simply get turned off by the title?



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: queenofswords

That's not debate. A debate is a formal discussion. It's people resorting to chicken little syndrome because they can't handle ACTUAL dialogue about it. They can't conceive of the notion that maybe not all gun owners are looking to off a school full of children. The other side can't conceive of the idea that closing a gunshow loophole isn't a quick ticket to a FEMA camp.

It's spewing the same crap over and over again and never getting anywhere. It's screaming the same stupid tripe over and over again. It's people angrily bashing their keyboards on ATS and resorting to name calling (yea, that's debate alright) as if somehow that's going to win people over.

Got it? Yea, I get it. I see it for what it actually is.

Do you?



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 11:09 AM
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then there is this,

www.independent.co.uk... tml


At least three killed in Austria after man drives into crowd before 'stabbing passers-by' in Graz

Saturday 20 June 2015


A seven-year-old boy is reportedly among the three people killed in Austria by a man who ploughed his car into crowds in the country’s second-largest city and then reportedly started stabbing people. A witness told the Wiener Zeitung newspaper that dead bodies were left lying face down in the street after the vehicle sped through streets near the the historical Herrengasse in Graz. More than 30 pedestrians, including three children, were hurt during the rampage and 10 victims were in hospital with serious injuries. One patient was in a critical condition on Saturday afternoon.


crazy will find a way
edit on 093030p://bSaturday2015 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

I definitely see it for what it is. You will see it, too, soon enough. Watch over the next few months how the "debate" begins to get hotter and more forceful, and watch what else is going to get pulled into it. This issue is about more than you think.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 11:18 AM
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a reply to: queenofswords

Obviously.

Can't wait!



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

There is a reason some states are passing open carry laws and others are entertaining the idea. This is not just about the second amendment infringement.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 11:31 AM
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Guns are to Americans what teddy bears are to people in my country every time there is one of these incidents you get an emotional 'o no they're going to take my teddy away response'.Obviously rational debate on this issue is not possible and theres so many damn guns there nothing would work anyway I agree with Michael Moore your wasting your time with this concern, so Id suggest if you dont like it leave because its never going to change.



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