My new Drug to end drug addiction...

a reply to: Macenroe82
i am taking the same thing now, and let me tell u, the withdrawls from it are worse than any pill withdrawl....make sure u taper down 1mg at a time, and when u get to 1mg a day, taper down 1/4mg every 2 weeks to 3 weeks. taking suboxone was the best and worst decision of my life....it saved me from my pill addiction and let me get my life back on track, but damn if it isnt the hardest drug to stop taking...and has the LONGEST withdrawl time....just my 2 cents.

a reply to: raedar

It sounds like you've been reading the "big book". That book has so many fallacies in it, I can't bare to listen to another AA cult member again. Had to go to another meeting the other day as a condition of my probation, and was struck with the awesome nonsense they kept saying. They're not political, and just want people to get sober... through his words... then go on to read passages in the bible, and the "big book" that are entirely circular, assumptuous, and seem to have little relevance to my life.

I'm 529 days off alcohol or any other illegal substance, an agnostic leaning towards atheism, and have had nothing but success tweaking my diet, and incorporating nootropics into my daily regiment. I take offense to the notion that my issues were "spiritual" in nature. They were not. I got hooked early, and had a difficult time giving up bad habits. It took years of lying to myself saying I could moderate, before realizing that never was true. Once I came to this realization, I quit. Nothing spiritual about that.

You see people in AA claim their way is the only way indirectly. They claim "the steps" will set you free, or something. I find them to be an absolute waste of time. What helped me was to accept that most people are not bright, and that's okay, cause it gives me an edge, so I should use it and leave the rest to their nonsense.

I think people start at the end result, where you can find common life situations, and difficulties, and then try to use that to come up with their own root cause assumptions for addicts. No, I don't think that's logical. I think we all start out different, and end up different after the life style is thrown out. The ones who remain the same are the ones who remold their life style together, and keep to the same belief system. That would be like people who join AA, and actually stay in it for a period of time. They all have the same kind of vibe, and it freaks me out.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Congratulations on 529 days of sobriety!

What I shared is my experience, and if it helps another poor soul who is still suffering, so be it! The fact of the matter is, AA has helped millions of people to find a new way of life. I never said it was the only way.

I am not going to debate AA, spirituality or God, for there would be no winner.

For someone who has not tried the way of life, I do not understand how you could possibly claim anything about it. Alas, that has nothing to do with me.

Peace to you and good luck on your journey!

a reply to: raedar

See, that's the thing, AA makes many claims, but they know very well that any stats they give are lies. It's an anonymous program. You can't come up with stats.

The fact is that the stats are terribly one-sided. You can't say how many were troubled after attending an AA meeting, or how many scored because they went to an AA meeting, or how many helped independent of AA. All you get is that one snippet, and if you don't really think on it, then that's all you will see.

I've tried to read the big book, tried to read the holy book, attended AA, and attended church. None of it made any sense to me. Even assuming that I haven't tried the program, shows you the conditioning you've already taken in. They say that they see the program work for those who work the program. Surely you see how cultic and circular that is? The way the program is worded, leads to assumptions such that someone will only do well in the program, and are somehow an outsider, sinner, liar, not ready to come clean... if they choose their own.

Well I hope you have a good day as well. Nothing against you, just wanted to voice my opinions as well. Take care.

My assumption was based upon what you shared:

Had to go to another meeting the other day as a condition of my probation, and was struck with the awesome nonsense they kept saying.

I am assuming based upon what you are saying that you are court ordered to go to AA and not happy about it. You have not mentioned if you have obtained a sponsor and actually worked the 12-steps. If you have not sat all the way down, obtained a sponsor, worked the 12-steps - I do not understand how you can be so certain it does not work? It works for every person able to be completely honest with themselves and another alcoholic (sponsor) who works the steps. My own personal experience has shown me that is true.

I could not stop and stay stopped for any length of time. I tried everything! In the short amount of time I managed to scrape together, I was depressed, anxious, very unhappy.

AA has worked for me and it has worked for countless others.

It is not a cult. There is no leader. It is self-sustaining and nobody is getting rich. There are plenty of meetings that are not great, there are more that are amazing!

Since around 3 months sober, I feel I have gained a new lease on life. I am no longer depressed or anxious as I was my entire life - I am experiencing true freedom for the first time ever, so it is my experience that has shown me there is definitely something to it!

originally posted by: raedar
My assumption was based upon what you shared:

Had to go to another meeting the other day as a condition of my probation, and was struck with the awesome nonsense they kept saying.

I am assuming based upon what you are saying that you are court ordered to go to AA and not happy about it. You have not mentioned if you have obtained a sponsor and actually worked the 12-steps. If you have not sat all the way down, obtained a sponsor, worked the 12-steps - I do not understand how you can be so certain it does not work? It works for every person able to be completely honest with themselves and another alcoholic (sponsor) who works the steps. My own personal experience has shown me that is true.

No, your own personal experience is that it works for you right now. The actual numbers indicate that if you are still attending meetings and still sober in 1 year that you are in a very small minority (approx. 1:15 are still there after 1 year).

I truly intend no disrespect, but its an extremely arrogant position when the program states that

It works for every person able to be completely honest with themselves and another alcoholic (sponsor) who works the steps.

. There is no scientific backing, research, or clinical experience to support this methodology. AA doesn't use trained medical professionals or addiction specialists. They do use certified counselors(its a certificate program in most cases as opposed to a degree with the only requirement to begin study being a GED).

I could not stop and stay stopped for any length of time. I tried everything! In the short amount of time I managed to scrape together, I was depressed, anxious, very unhappy.

To be clear, I am being entirely sincere when I say congratulations on finding any success with this program. I'm thrilled it works for you at the moment but you are actually in the minority when it comes to the long haul. I hope you continue to be successful at your sobriety. For the record though, there are many other treatments available that are more successful. But to say you tried everything, did you seek help from medical or mental health professionals? Did you try any medications to alleviate depression and anxiety prior to joining AA? Many studies have proven that addressing these symptoms first allows the individual to cease their alcohol dependence simply because they aren't SO anxious that they feel they need a drink to deal with a given situation.

AA has worked for me and it has worked for countless others.

How long has it been working for you though? Peer reviewed studies of AA's efficaciousness have found that only 5-10 percent of people who start attending meetings continue with the program and stay sober after 1 year. People totally ignore the fact that AA's methodology is about a century old now and it totally ignores all current advances in addiction treatment in favor of a program that began prior to the field of Neurology and an understanding of the biological actions of neurology and the relationship with physiology.
AA has managed to survive, in part, because members who become and remain sober speak and write about it regularly. This is no accident: AA’s twelfth step expressly tells members to proselytize for the organization:

Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Adherence to this step has created a classic sampling error: because most of us hear only from the people who succeeded in the program, it is natural to conclude that they represent the whole. In reality, these members speak for an exceptionally small percentage of addicts.

It is not a cult. There is no leader. It is self-sustaining and nobody is getting rich. There are plenty of meetings that are not great, there are more that are amazing!

I have to strongly disagree with you on this. It actually is a cult. It was started as an offshoot of the Oxford Group, a fundamentalist religious group formed in the early 20th century. There might not be a leader in the sense of an analogue to a priest but there is a hierarchy to the organization and people are getting rich. Especially when people are forced to attend as part of a court sentence. Judges, attorneys, municipalities, the meeting halls rented out for AA meetings and on and on. Finally, is not the 12th step the equivalent of proselytizing?

Since around 3 months sober, I feel I have gained a new lease on life. I am no longer depressed or anxious as I was my entire life - I am experiencing true freedom for the first time ever, so it is my experience that has shown me there is definitely something to it!

The result of AA's most recent study in 2007 were promising. According to AA, 33 percent of the 8,000 North American members it surveyed had remained sober for over 10 years. Twelve percent were sober for 5 to 10 years; 24 percent were sober 1 to 5 years; and 31 percent were sober for less than a year.

The study didn't disclose how long each person interviewed had been working the rooms to achieve sobriety. It also revealed little about the percentage of people who attended AA, relapsed, and left the program. A 1990 summary of five different membership surveys (from 1977 through 1989) reported that 81 percent of alcoholics who engaged in the program stopped attending within a year. And only 5% of the AA attendees surveyed had been attending meetings for more than a year.

I wish you continued success at your sobriety and truly hope that you are in the minority who actually makes it. Just try to be objective and engage in due diligence as opposed to parroting the party line taught at meetings. There are always multiple sides and interpretations to the narrative. Of course AA wants you to believe that its your only chance at salvation but when you look at some of their teachings like how you have to hit rock bottom before you can get sober, well its kind of like letting someone fall into a diabetic coma before giving them insulin. There are plenty of chances at redemption prior to that point and they don't have to be so dangerous to your health or to the lives of those around you.

a reply to: peter vlar

From what I can tell, that ~5% recovery rate is spontaneous, and independent of any system. People can choose to gravitate towrads whatever system they feel will help, but at the end of the day it seems to remain about at that 5% level. I think the people who see the circular nonsense of AA will stay away, and about 5% of them will remain off their substance of abuse. The people who feel it does them good, will have the same about 5% success rate. Let them be, they truly feel they are doing good by spreading what was fed to them. It makes me cringe a little, but thankfully I don't have to attend it after another dozen or so meetings. If these people could be reasoned with, they would see the err of the program long ago. It's not really worth the bother.

In Russia they do something called "coding".

In the case of alcohol addiction, the procedure may be carried out with a drug that temporarily affects the respiratory system when mixed with alcohol, administered under hypnosis. The therapist gives patients the drug, then allows them a small amount of alcohol, which triggers an adverse reaction and makes them erroneously believe that the therapy has had a long-term effect.[3] Another method involves the therapist giving patients hypnotic suggestions during a head massage, with the message that alcohol will cause blindness or paralysis.[2]

Wikipedia

The Russians don't mess around...

From what I've seen personally, AA works -- for those that it works for.

And that's perfectly well and good. It doesn't work for everyone though. I like to use the band-aid analogy.

AA is a band-aid that demands you continue to replace it for the rest of your life. The true root causes of the addiction are never truly dealt with and dispensed away with. One addiction is replaced by another.

If someone is completely content to spend the rest of their life in the rooms of AA -- by all means, go for it. It's 2015 now, and I'd like to think that a treatment plan from the 1930's can be improved upon and offer a permanent solution.

Most alcoholics drink as a result of a deep-rooted sense of inescapable powerlessness. Right before a triggering event, if an alcoholic examines the feelings just before a relapse of binge, they can usually find a feeling being trapped and/or powerless.

I suggest the book "Heart of Addiction" by Lance M., M.D. Dodes. It's a very modern, refreshing look at addiction in general (not just alcohol).

a reply to: raedar

not so true,I was a heroin addict for a few years,and i got myself onto the methadone programme...........guess what,I used a drug to get off a drug,and have been free of both for nearly 10yrs.
When you spend $150 on 100mg of heroine,inject it and it does nothing because of the methadone,thats the first step to a heroin free life,time and patience takes care of the rest of the detox.

Painful consequences don't work on everyone - withdrawal from opiates can be absolutely debilitating (read a few stories of anyone coming off long-term methadone use) and withdrawal from benzodiazepines and alcohol can be fatal - yet people will subject themselves through all kinds of hell, get through it, then use again, damned the consequences.

And not every drug addict is a thief - there are plenty of "functional" addicts that hold down jobs, have families, and appear normal from the outside (i'd say the majority are) - even IV heroin addicts. I worked on a large luxury yacht for a time that had an in-house Chef making $120G a year but was a full blown heroin addict. No one had any idea, until he OD'd in a bathroom during dinner service one night, and we had to kick down the door (he survived).

a reply to: hiddenNZ

I'm not sure what you mean "not so". As stated, I said medical detox works and I had one myself. I'm happy for you!

The only addiction I have ever dealt with is nicotine. That said I grew up around drug addicts. As a kid I watched people go through hard core heroine withdrawals. Best Anti-drug ever... for me. Form the addict? Not so much. I have witnessed more than once people who have gone through massive convulsions, pain and agony, and spent days on the brink of death, only to go back to the drug 6 months later and then do the withdrawal possess all over again.

The addiction is far more powerful than any drug suggested in the OP. My own mothers only way out was to take her own life.

a reply to: peter vlar

Wow! My goodness.

The alcohol and drugs are a symptom of the disease and many have found freedom in AA.

By freedom I mean true happiness and peace.

The things I tried do include psychologists, behavioral medications, Church, only drinking wine, only drinking beer, only drinking on the weekends, moving, changing careers, moving, killing myself....it's a pretty long list!

I think many people go to AA and realize they are not alcoholic/addict. I think many go because the court orders them to. Some people go just for the fellowship.

In the end, if it helps the ones willing to try 100%, I don't see why so many people seem to be passionately against it.

But I'm not a spokesperson, and I have shared what I know.

So happy weekend and good luck trying to put statistics on something that can't be measured!

a reply to: raedar
Not so was in response to you saying you cant substitute one drug to get off another,or along those lines.
Thanks for the kind words...well done for yourself also

a reply to: raedar
very good post man,good on you for your hard won battles

originally posted by: Macenroe82
I myself was a drug addict for 7 years. I became addicted to my pain for my pinched nerve in my back. It started with perocet, the. When those stopped working i got oxys, then the milligrams upped every month. Before long i was taking 3-4 oxys orally.
Then i started snorting them. When i would run out of my meds i would buy them off drug dealers. I was lucky though, i have always had high paying jobs, in the excess of over a $130,000. (Theres stupid amounts of money in mining)
I didnt have much to show for the amount of money i made though. A new car and a big tv. My wife said to me one day, do you relize how much money we make? We have a home income of $200,000 a year. I started looking at all the things my fellow employees had and i was like, this is disgusting i have to get a grip.
So i went to my dr told him what had evolved, and he said i want you to try suboxone.
I had to go 24 hours without any opiates, which was complete hell, but something i needed to do.
3 years later...well let me say this, suboxone has saved my life.
At 32 years old, Me, my wife and kids now have everything we could ever want... And then some.
I urge anyone addicted to opiates to talk to their Dr and ask about suboxone.
You can have your life back.

i totally agree with you, suboxone has changed my life, but do u know whats crazy ????

suboxone is safer, yet it is harder to get than vicodin !!

NOW THERE IS THE REAL CONSPIRACY

maybe someone should start a thread ..

originally posted by: scattergun
So do you Really want to quit? We can help. Just sign right here and roll up that sleeve bud. This stuff won't harm you at all if stay clean. If not your gonna be hurting worse than you ever thought was possible. And if you want to stay out of jail your gonna have to take a booster shot every six months.

Cartels will develop Anti-F1.

people who use illegal drugs that don't commit crimes have nothing to fear. But those who do get it, and shall actually crawl back to our culture.

What?

Using illegal drugs is a crime.

Personally I prefer the wet house approach and think it would be a good idea to broaden it to include other, if not all drugs.

I've heard that ayahuasca is effective at coping with opiate addiction and withdrawal, among other things.

www.maps.org...

a reply to: scattergun

Let's see, there's methadone, buspar, others out there. Where I work, some of the mental health clients are prescribed buspar. There are those taking methadone who are heroin addicts.

Somehow, I find it difficult to believe that some drug that has horrendous side effects like that would ever be approved. If it were, I guarantee you there would be multiple lawsuits. The lawyers would have a field day with that.