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African American Names!!

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posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 08:41 PM
link   

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
Actually we were first called "African Americans" to separate us from "normal" Americans. That's something that the "white" majority did, not us. Just as we were once legally referred to as "slaves" (under the "Slave Code" laws), "servants" (under some "black Codes" laws), "Negros", "coloreds", and now "African Americans". Those are the names that showed up on legal forms to describe us.

That's why some of us call ourselves "black", "African American", or whatever. Because whether it's federal, state, or local, every government form specifies that we choose one. And each community is different, which explains why some prefer "black" or "African American".


Do you have any data/links to show where all of that came about? I am not saying you are wrong; I simply always thought of it as one of those labels groups choose to describe themselves. Whenever I have heard the term discussed, it's been talked about as a term used to get away from "black", since some considered that racist, for whatever reason. Why, I can't imagine, but that's how I have heard it discussed. It's all just skin tone as far as I am concerned, and terms like that, or Asian-American, or Native American, or whatever, just seem divisive to me. American is just American, after all. I'd love to toss out all such terms, and use simple descriptors whenever race needs to be mentioned, such as when looking for a particular person. Scientific names for the races would work.

As a person who is black, do you have a term you prefer, to describe your racial group? As a white person, I don't really care, as long as it isn't meant as an insult. There are some used for all racial groups that are derogatory, and should be avoided, I think. Other than those, I am good with whatever; white, caucasian, whatever. I have called myself a "mutt" before, being if pretty mixed European stock, lol!

Really, unless the cops are looking for someone and need to describe them, or there is a missing person, or something of that sort, race shouldn't be an issue. We are all human.


Honestly, the best thing I can point to is government forms. Like census forms, forms when applying for financial aid for schools, etc. The next time you look at any government or business form that asks, just look at the categories for us. It's literally a legal term, just as "black" and those other terms were. But different communities consider different terms offensive or politically correct, which is why some will only use one or the other now.

Personally, I like both "black" and "African American". I like "black" because "black" people were always the lowest social class in North America, South America, colonial Africa, and in Middle Eastern countries. I took the Prophet Jesus' words to heart when he supposedly said "The way you treat the least among you is the way you treat me". As a "black" man, I get to see how societies treat the "lowest" among them. And I like "African American" because one side of my family has traced our roots to specific African regions. I love Africa and unlike some people, I see no shame in being associated with Africa. There are many who hate that term though, just as there are some that hate "black", "negro", and the others.

One day, I think people will get past "race". But that won't happen until the old guard either has died off or is completely out of power. Otherwise, there will still be policies which conveniently target specific groups. Also, there are simply too many people who still teach their kids not to date or associate with other races. Racism will always exist as long as that exists. (Also, go check out the other posts in this thread & you'll see why the division still exists)
edit on 20-6-2015 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-6-2015 by enlightenedservant because: LOL forgot which thread i was in




posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:19 PM
link   

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Well, interesting thread and read, so S&F for that. As to the content, it's a heated topic for certain. To be fair, though, you aren't saying anything that Bill Cosby didn't say. He pointed out the same issue, and that of clothing, as potential problems, and no one can accuse him of being racist.

Names can matter. That applies to anyone, of course, and some parents either aren't thinking when they name their kids, or are flat out idiots with some of the stuff they come up with. Names that can be twisted to cause teasing, names that are simply made up, and so forth, that parents pick because they think its cool or whatever, are seriously not nice to the kids. Parents really ought to think about how the nae they choose will affect their child, before choosing one. Sure, in a perfect world, it shouldn't matter, but this isn't a perfect world. Kids pick on other kids, and as the studies posted show, names matter later in life as well. Choosing a name just to be different, or spelling it oddly, just because, does in fact cause problems for kids, that can last a lifetime. That some dads can't even spell some of the names, as one poster mentioned, is beyond ridiculous.

As for the comment about calling blacks "African Americans", that's a label, as far as I know, that they chose themselves. Silly, I agree, as are any and all such hyphenated names, and even divisive, but you'll have to talk to the PC crowd about that one.


Actually we were first called "African Americans" to separate us from "normal" Americans. That's something that the "white" majority did, not us. Just as we were once legally referred to as "slaves" (under the "Slave Code" laws), "servants" (under some "black Codes" laws), "Negros", "coloreds", and now "African Americans". Those are the names that showed up on legal forms to describe us.

That's why some of us call ourselves "black", "African American", or whatever. Because whether it's federal, state, or local, every government form specifies that we choose one. And each community is different, which explains why some prefer "black" or "African American".


Awsome info, didn't know that at all!! Or I guess I know the 3/5ths rule which is why Obama is the first black pres. Just never put 2 and 2 togather with the AA slant.


Ps I'm like a hard core anti conservative evangelical/Fox News "liberal". Just for context.


Yeah it was even worse than that. In some States you were classified as "black" if you had a single "black" grandparent. And some States went even further, saying even a single drop of "black" blood made a person "black" (the infamous "1 Drop Rule"). So the irony is that many "white" Americans today would be considered "black" under that rule.
White Southerners Likely To Have More Black DNA Than Whites Elsewhere In The US: Study
How Many ‘White’ People Are Passing?

(Technically, the 3/5 rule was before the Civil War & it dealt with legally considering us people or not. The Northern States didn't want slaves counted at all, while the Southern States wanted us counted as full people. This way, we would count towards census numbers & slave States would get more delegate for the House of Representatives.)



The question is do you think you have been discriminated against because of your AA name?

Honestly, I've never thought about it. Nobody's said anything about my name since I was a child and I've traveled A LOT lol. Though sometimes people have a hard time pronouncing it. It looks like it's misspelled, but that's how it's actually spelled in its original language (I guess it's more accurate to say the American pronunciation doesn't sound the way it's spelled). It's only 2 syllables though, so I just break it down for them.

ps I think my responses in this thread have been a bit edgy because of the subject matter. So I apologize if my posts seem combative.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:28 PM
link   

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
Actually we were first called "African Americans" to separate us from "normal" Americans. That's something that the "white" majority did, not us. Just as we were once legally referred to as "slaves" (under the "Slave Code" laws), "servants" (under some "black Codes" laws), "Negros", "coloreds", and now "African Americans". Those are the names that showed up on legal forms to describe us.

That's why some of us call ourselves "black", "African American", or whatever. Because whether it's federal, state, or local, every government form specifies that we choose one. And each community is different, which explains why some prefer "black" or "African American".


Do you have any data/links to show where all of that came about? I am not saying you are wrong; I simply always thought of it as one of those labels groups choose to describe themselves. Whenever I have heard the term discussed, it's been talked about as a term used to get away from "black", since some considered that racist, for whatever reason. Why, I can't imagine, but that's how I have heard it discussed. It's all just skin tone as far as I am concerned, and terms like that, or Asian-American, or Native American, or whatever, just seem divisive to me. American is just American, after all. I'd love to toss out all such terms, and use simple descriptors whenever race needs to be mentioned, such as when looking for a particular person. Scientific names for the races would work.

As a person who is black, do you have a term you prefer, to describe your racial group? As a white person, I don't really care, as long as it isn't meant as an insult. There are some used for all racial groups that are derogatory, and should be avoided, I think. Other than those, I am good with whatever; white, caucasian, whatever. I have called myself a "mutt" before, being if pretty mixed European stock, lol!

Really, unless the cops are looking for someone and need to describe them, or there is a missing person, or something of that sort, race shouldn't be an issue. We are all human.


Honestly, the best thing I can point to is government forms. Like census forms, forms when applying for financial aid for schools, etc. The next time you look at any government or business form that asks, just look at the categories for us. It's literally a legal term, just as "black" and those other terms were. But different communities consider different terms offensive or politically correct, which is why some will only use one or the other now.

Personally, I like both "black" and "African American". I like "black" because "black" people were always the lowest social class in North America, South America, colonial Africa, and in Middle Eastern countries. I took the Prophet Jesus' words to heart when he supposedly said "The way you treat the least among you is the way you treat me". As a "black" man, I get to see how societies treat the "lowest" among them. And I like "African American" because one side of my family has traced our roots to specific African regions. I love Africa and unlike some people, I see no shame in being associated with Africa. There are many who hate that term though, just as there are some that hate "black", "negro", and the others.

One day, I think people will get past "race". But that won't happen until the old guard either has died off or is completely out of power. Otherwise, there will still be policies which conveniently target specific groups. Also, there are simply too many people who still teach their kids not to date or associate with other races. Racism will always exist as long as that exists. (Also, go check out the other posts in this thread & you'll see why the division still exists)



You never answered your opinion of adopting the religious beliefs of your oppressors. Seems crazy to me that you (not you personally) would throw off the yoke of conserving names and such but keep that. The AA community is very Christian, like all the others almost none have read the entire bible, but in my personal experience you rarely find a black person who believes in African religions or atheism.


Ps: Didn't Islam enslave African people as well?



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 10:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: enlightenedservant




We African Americans have no connections to England,



Oh dear.

You do realise that many African slaves interbred with their owners. Those owners up untill The Revolution where British Subjects.

There is no pure gene for an African American. Lets look at one example.


Barack Obama.



Obama was born on August 4, 1961,[1] at Kapiʻolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital (now Kapiʻolani Medical Center for Women and Children) in Honolulu, Hawaii,[2][3][4] and would become the first President to have been born in Hawaii.[5] His mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, born in Wichita, Kansas, was of mostly English ancestry


en.wikipedia.org...

Next time you make such ridiculous comments, try putting your brain into gear first.



Just stop. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. We didn't "interbreed" with white people, white males "bred" with us. It was literally against the law for us to mate with or marry white people (to instigate it). But white males could have whatever sexual partners they wanted. Sex slavery was a large part of the slave trade, with many of our women being purchased strictly for that reason. Even the US President Andrew Jackson's first slave was a young woman. Hence why there was roughly 250,000 mixed white-black people in America in 1860 according to the 1860 census.

Black males like Emmett Till are the examples of what happened when we even flirted with white people. In fact, interracial marriage was still illegal in most States when Pres Barack Obama was born. It took the 1967 Supreme Court Case Loving v. Virginia to end miscegenation laws (anti-interracial marriage laws) nationwide. So yeah, there's "white" blood in many of us. But it wasn't our choice & we weren't even claimed by the "white" people because of their own fear of reprisals for being "n-word lovers", "race traitors", etc.

So like I said, we African Americans have no connection to the UK except for slavery ties. And why would we want to remember or keep those bonds?



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 11:00 PM
link   

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
Actually we were first called "African Americans" to separate us from "normal" Americans. That's something that the "white" majority did, not us. Just as we were once legally referred to as "slaves" (under the "Slave Code" laws), "servants" (under some "black Codes" laws), "Negros", "coloreds", and now "African Americans". Those are the names that showed up on legal forms to describe us.

That's why some of us call ourselves "black", "African American", or whatever. Because whether it's federal, state, or local, every government form specifies that we choose one. And each community is different, which explains why some prefer "black" or "African American".


Do you have any data/links to show where all of that came about? I am not saying you are wrong; I simply always thought of it as one of those labels groups choose to describe themselves. Whenever I have heard the term discussed, it's been talked about as a term used to get away from "black", since some considered that racist, for whatever reason. Why, I can't imagine, but that's how I have heard it discussed. It's all just skin tone as far as I am concerned, and terms like that, or Asian-American, or Native American, or whatever, just seem divisive to me. American is just American, after all. I'd love to toss out all such terms, and use simple descriptors whenever race needs to be mentioned, such as when looking for a particular person. Scientific names for the races would work.

As a person who is black, do you have a term you prefer, to describe your racial group? As a white person, I don't really care, as long as it isn't meant as an insult. There are some used for all racial groups that are derogatory, and should be avoided, I think. Other than those, I am good with whatever; white, caucasian, whatever. I have called myself a "mutt" before, being if pretty mixed European stock, lol!

Really, unless the cops are looking for someone and need to describe them, or there is a missing person, or something of that sort, race shouldn't be an issue. We are all human.


Honestly, the best thing I can point to is government forms. Like census forms, forms when applying for financial aid for schools, etc. The next time you look at any government or business form that asks, just look at the categories for us. It's literally a legal term, just as "black" and those other terms were. But different communities consider different terms offensive or politically correct, which is why some will only use one or the other now.

Personally, I like both "black" and "African American". I like "black" because "black" people were always the lowest social class in North America, South America, colonial Africa, and in Middle Eastern countries. I took the Prophet Jesus' words to heart when he supposedly said "The way you treat the least among you is the way you treat me". As a "black" man, I get to see how societies treat the "lowest" among them. And I like "African American" because one side of my family has traced our roots to specific African regions. I love Africa and unlike some people, I see no shame in being associated with Africa. There are many who hate that term though, just as there are some that hate "black", "negro", and the others.

One day, I think people will get past "race". But that won't happen until the old guard either has died off or is completely out of power. Otherwise, there will still be policies which conveniently target specific groups. Also, there are simply too many people who still teach their kids not to date or associate with other races. Racism will always exist as long as that exists. (Also, go check out the other posts in this thread & you'll see why the division still exists)



You never answered your opinion of adopting the religious beliefs of your oppressors. Seems crazy to me that you (not you personally) would throw off the yoke of conserving names and such but keep that. The AA community is very Christian, like all the others almost none have read the entire bible, but in my personal experience you rarely find a black person who believes in African religions or atheism.


Ps: Didn't Islam enslave African people as well?


Sorry, didn't see that question. Ok, this can get really long so I'll try to be quick:

1. Judaism has existed in Africa since Solomon's son Menelik became the king of Ethiopia in the 900s BC. In fact, all of the events in the Old Testament happened in Africa & Western Asia. So it's not like those religions were new to us. Kind of like this in Genesis 2:13.

2. Ethiopia (at the time called Axum) was the first world power to adopt Christianity as its official religion, even before the Romans did. Armenia & I think a 2nd country adopted it officially first, but they were small kingdoms.

3. Christianity & Islam are actually by far the 2 biggest religions in Africa. In fact, the vast majority of Africans are followers of one of those 2 religions.

4. The 1st Hijra under the Prophet Muhammad was to Ethiopia/"Abyssinia". Ethiopia's Christian king accepted the Prophet Muhammad's followers & gave them safe haven from their enemies in the Arabian Peninsula. This shouldn't be surprising though since Ethiopians were the 2nd largest group of people among the Prophet Muhammad's followers.

5. Some denominations from each of the "Abrahamic religions" enslaved "black" people. Places like Mauritius still have a version of it today. Most MidEast countries only abolished it in the 1960s (Saudi Arabia in 1962 & Yemen in 1964). This is because they interpreted the biblical "Mark of Cain" and "Curse of Ham/Canaan/Kush" as being darkened skin.

For the record, the Canaanites controlled most of the MidEast during biblical times. And "Cush/Kush" was the name of a kingdom in modern day South Egypt/Sudan. Cush/Kush was a rival & sometimes ally to Ancient Egypt. So to be blunt, the ancient Israelites interpreted the supposed curses as justification for enslaving their neighbors, and others would later use this justification to enslave us too.

In conclusion, Islam & Christianity weren't new to us anyway. We've literally been following them & their predecessors since the beginning. There are obviously Africans who had other religions. But the narrative that we were "uncivilized savages" was used to make white people feel better about the slave trade (go look up the poem "The White Man's Burden" to see what I mean). Also, you have to realize we don't follow those religions today because of our former oppression. We follow them because we believe in them. Ethnic groups have nothing to do with my respect for God.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 11:31 PM
link   

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: enlightenedservant




We African Americans have no connections to England,



Oh dear.

You do realise that many African slaves interbred with their owners. Those owners up untill The Revolution where British Subjects.

There is no pure gene for an African American. Lets look at one example.


Barack Obama.



Obama was born on August 4, 1961,[1] at Kapiʻolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital (now Kapiʻolani Medical Center for Women and Children) in Honolulu, Hawaii,[2][3][4] and would become the first President to have been born in Hawaii.[5] His mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, born in Wichita, Kansas, was of mostly English ancestry


en.wikipedia.org...

Next time you make such ridiculous comments, try putting your brain into gear first.



Just stop. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. We didn't "interbreed" with white people, white males "bred" with us. It was literally against the law for us to mate with or marry white people (to instigate it). But white males could have whatever sexual partners they wanted. Sex slavery was a large part of the slave trade, with many of our women being purchased strictly for that reason. Even the US President Andrew Jackson's first slave was a young woman. Hence why there was roughly 250,000 mixed white-black people in America in 1860 according to the 1860 census.

Black males like Emmett Till are the examples of what happened when we even flirted with white people. In fact, interracial marriage was still illegal in most States when Pres Barack Obama was born. It took the 1967 Supreme Court Case Loving v. Virginia to end miscegenation laws (anti-interracial marriage laws) nationwide. So yeah, there's "white" blood in many of us. But it wasn't our choice & we weren't even claimed by the "white" people because of their own fear of reprisals for being "n-word lovers", "race traitors", etc.

So like I said, we African Americans have no connection to the UK except for slavery ties. And why would we want to remember or keep those bonds?



That's not the whole truth migo. Of course you had millions of rapes during slavery and segregation. But you also had interracial couples. Espeacially with the Native American population. I'm sure there were love children, life long couples and every other option since time immemorial.

Your playing into the same 3/5ths rule bs the slavers pushed. It's ridiculous that anyone with one drop of African blood is black and 3/5 a human) There are no actual races. Genetically we really are the same. So IMHO referring to people by race should quite literally only be a discriptive term. Like saying someone is blonde or tall.

All the rest is just a lie we tell ourselves. If you DNA test 10 unrelated people, 9 "black" and 1 "white". It is a near mathematical certainty that the white guy would be a closer match to a couple black guys then the black guys are to each other, and vise versa. The real truth is the more we mix the stronger the species is. AA's don't get skin cancer and Europeans don't carry the sicklecell trait.

The exact same goes for "whites", "we" are such a mix of all the various European, Native American, Asian exc that you couldn't actually find a pure bred ANYTHING in America. What we call AA's isn't even an actual "race" either. They look nothing like actual Africans they are so mixed with a smorgasbord of everything else just like every other American.

The only truely correct term is tribes. We as a species are no different then the Cherokee were from the chicasaw.



posted on Jun, 20 2015 @ 11:50 PM
link   

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
Actually we were first called "African Americans" to separate us from "normal" Americans. That's something that the "white" majority did, not us. Just as we were once legally referred to as "slaves" (under the "Slave Code" laws), "servants" (under some "black Codes" laws), "Negros", "coloreds", and now "African Americans". Those are the names that showed up on legal forms to describe us.

That's why some of us call ourselves "black", "African American", or whatever. Because whether it's federal, state, or local, every government form specifies that we choose one. And each community is different, which explains why some prefer "black" or "African American".


Do you have any data/links to show where all of that came about? I am not saying you are wrong; I simply always thought of it as one of those labels groups choose to describe themselves. Whenever I have heard the term discussed, it's been talked about as a term used to get away from "black", since some considered that racist, for whatever reason. Why, I can't imagine, but that's how I have heard it discussed. It's all just skin tone as far as I am concerned, and terms like that, or Asian-American, or Native American, or whatever, just seem divisive to me. American is just American, after all. I'd love to toss out all such terms, and use simple descriptors whenever race needs to be mentioned, such as when looking for a particular person. Scientific names for the races would work.

As a person who is black, do you have a term you prefer, to describe your racial group? As a white person, I don't really care, as long as it isn't meant as an insult. There are some used for all racial groups that are derogatory, and should be avoided, I think. Other than those, I am good with whatever; white, caucasian, whatever. I have called myself a "mutt" before, being if pretty mixed European stock, lol!

Really, unless the cops are looking for someone and need to describe them, or there is a missing person, or something of that sort, race shouldn't be an issue. We are all human.


Honestly, the best thing I can point to is government forms. Like census forms, forms when applying for financial aid for schools, etc. The next time you look at any government or business form that asks, just look at the categories for us. It's literally a legal term, just as "black" and those other terms were. But different communities consider different terms offensive or politically correct, which is why some will only use one or the other now.

Personally, I like both "black" and "African American". I like "black" because "black" people were always the lowest social class in North America, South America, colonial Africa, and in Middle Eastern countries. I took the Prophet Jesus' words to heart when he supposedly said "The way you treat the least among you is the way you treat me". As a "black" man, I get to see how societies treat the "lowest" among them. And I like "African American" because one side of my family has traced our roots to specific African regions. I love Africa and unlike some people, I see no shame in being associated with Africa. There are many who hate that term though, just as there are some that hate "black", "negro", and the others.

One day, I think people will get past "race". But that won't happen until the old guard either has died off or is completely out of power. Otherwise, there will still be policies which conveniently target specific groups. Also, there are simply too many people who still teach their kids not to date or associate with other races. Racism will always exist as long as that exists. (Also, go check out the other posts in this thread & you'll see why the division still exists)



You never answered your opinion of adopting the religious beliefs of your oppressors. Seems crazy to me that you (not you personally) would throw off the yoke of conserving names and such but keep that. The AA community is very Christian, like all the others almost none have read the entire bible, but in my personal experience you rarely find a black person who believes in African religions or atheism.


Ps: Didn't Islam enslave African people as well?


Sorry, didn't see that question. Ok, this can get really long so I'll try to be quick:

1. Judaism has existed in Africa since Solomon's son Menelik became the king of Ethiopia in the 900s BC. In fact, all of the events in the Old Testament happened in Africa & Western Asia. So it's not like those religions were new to us. Kind of like this in Genesis 2:13.

2. Ethiopia (at the time called Axum) was the first world power to adopt Christianity as its official religion, even before the Romans did. Armenia & I think a 2nd country adopted it officially first, but they were small kingdoms.

3. Christianity & Islam are actually by far the 2 biggest religions in Africa. In fact, the vast majority of Africans are followers of one of those 2 religions.

4. The 1st Hijra under the Prophet Muhammad was to Ethiopia/"Abyssinia". Ethiopia's Christian king accepted the Prophet Muhammad's followers & gave them safe haven from their enemies in the Arabian Peninsula. This shouldn't be surprising though since Ethiopians were the 2nd largest group of people among the Prophet Muhammad's followers.

5. Some denominations from each of the "Abrahamic religions" enslaved "black" people. Places like Mauritius still have a version of it today. Most MidEast countries only abolished it in the 1960s (Saudi Arabia in 1962 & Yemen in 1964). This is because they interpreted the biblical "Mark of Cain" and "Curse of Ham/Canaan/Kush" as being darkened skin.

For the record, the Canaanites controlled most of the MidEast during biblical times. And "Cush/Kush" was the name of a kingdom in modern day South Egypt/Sudan. Cush/Kush was a rival & sometimes ally to Ancient Egypt. So to be blunt, the ancient Israelites interpreted the supposed curses as justification for enslaving their neighbors, and others would later use this justification to enslave us too.

In conclusion, Islam & Christianity weren't new to us anyway. We've literally been following them & their predecessors since the beginning. There are obviously Africans who had other religions. But the narrative that we were "uncivilized savages" was used to make white people feel better about the slave trade (go look up the poem "The White Man's Burden" to see what I mean). Also, you have to realize we don't follow those religions today because of our former oppression. We follow them because we believe in them. Ethnic groups have nothing to do with my respect for God.



I thought huge portions were forced from tribal religions, kinda like Native American or Australian fertility "cults" Into Christianity.

Oh and no offense but anthropology tells a totally different story then the bible..



posted on Jun, 21 2015 @ 12:26 AM
link   

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: enlightenedservant




We African Americans have no connections to England,



Oh dear.

You do realise that many African slaves interbred with their owners. Those owners up untill The Revolution where British Subjects.

There is no pure gene for an African American. Lets look at one example.


Barack Obama.



Obama was born on August 4, 1961,[1] at Kapiʻolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital (now Kapiʻolani Medical Center for Women and Children) in Honolulu, Hawaii,[2][3][4] and would become the first President to have been born in Hawaii.[5] His mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, born in Wichita, Kansas, was of mostly English ancestry


en.wikipedia.org...

Next time you make such ridiculous comments, try putting your brain into gear first.



Just stop. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. We didn't "interbreed" with white people, white males "bred" with us. It was literally against the law for us to mate with or marry white people (to instigate it). But white males could have whatever sexual partners they wanted. Sex slavery was a large part of the slave trade, with many of our women being purchased strictly for that reason. Even the US President Andrew Jackson's first slave was a young woman. Hence why there was roughly 250,000 mixed white-black people in America in 1860 according to the 1860 census.

Black males like Emmett Till are the examples of what happened when we even flirted with white people. In fact, interracial marriage was still illegal in most States when Pres Barack Obama was born. It took the 1967 Supreme Court Case Loving v. Virginia to end miscegenation laws (anti-interracial marriage laws) nationwide. So yeah, there's "white" blood in many of us. But it wasn't our choice & we weren't even claimed by the "white" people because of their own fear of reprisals for being "n-word lovers", "race traitors", etc.

So like I said, we African Americans have no connection to the UK except for slavery ties. And why would we want to remember or keep those bonds?



That's not the whole truth migo. Of course you had millions of rapes during slavery and segregation. But you also had interracial couples. Espeacially with the Native American population. I'm sure there were love children, life long couples and every other option since time immemorial.

Your playing into the same 3/5ths rule bs the slavers pushed. It's ridiculous that anyone with one drop of African blood is black and 3/5 a human) There are no actual races. Genetically we really are the same. So IMHO referring to people by race should quite literally only be a discriptive term. Like saying someone is blonde or tall.

All the rest is just a lie we tell ourselves. If you DNA test 10 unrelated people, 9 "black" and 1 "white". It is a near mathematical certainty that the white guy would be a closer match to a couple black guys then the black guys are to each other, and vise versa. The real truth is the more we mix the stronger the species is. AA's don't get skin cancer and Europeans don't carry the sicklecell trait.

The exact same goes for "whites", "we" are such a mix of all the various European, Native American, Asian exc that you couldn't actually find a pure bred ANYTHING in America. What we call AA's isn't even an actual "race" either. They look nothing like actual Africans they are so mixed with a smorgasbord of everything else just like every other American.

The only truely correct term is tribes. We as a species are no different then the Cherokee were from the chicasaw.


I'm confused by this response. Could you clarify? We're talking about African American connections to the UK. I'm saying our only connection to the UK was through slavery, while he was saying we had deep relationships connecting us to the UK.

EDIT: And for the record, I know we're all human. Race isn't something we came up with, anyway. The concept of "race" was created to divide people & create advantages for select groups of people.
edit on 20-6-2015 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2015 @ 12:48 AM
link   
a reply to: Entreri06




I thought huge portions were forced from tribal religions, kinda like Native American or Australian fertility "cults" Into Christianity.


Many of the slaves were forced to give up their beliefs, languages, and cultures, but nowhere near all of them were. The truth is much more complex. For example, 15-30% of the African slaves were Muslims when they were brought over. Also, the Europeans, and later the Americans, didn't keep track of the previous religions or cultures of their slaves. So they have no records on if their slaves were originally a different form of Christianity, Muslims, or another Torah-following group.

Honestly, there are entire books on this stuff so it's hard to narrow it down. But an easy way to explain it is to look where most of America's slaves came from. The part of West Africa where most American slaves came from (mostly the "Gold Coast") had Christianity, Islam, and other Torah-following tribes for more than 1,000 years.



Oh and no offense but anthropology tells a totally different story then the bible..


I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this one. Can you clarify?



posted on Jun, 21 2015 @ 07:51 AM
link   
a reply to: enlightenedservant




we African Americans have no connection to the UK


Really ?

You do realise that Martin Luther King Jnr had Irish ancestry ?

Stop now. You're making yourself look like a complete fool.



posted on Jun, 21 2015 @ 09:30 AM
link   

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: enlightenedservant




We African Americans have no connections to England,



Oh dear.

You do realise that many African slaves interbred with their owners. Those owners up untill The Revolution where British Subjects.

There is no pure gene for an African American. Lets look at one example.


Barack Obama.



Obama was born on August 4, 1961,[1] at Kapiʻolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital (now Kapiʻolani Medical Center for Women and Children) in Honolulu, Hawaii,[2][3][4] and would become the first President to have been born in Hawaii.[5] His mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, born in Wichita, Kansas, was of mostly English ancestry


en.wikipedia.org...

Next time you make such ridiculous comments, try putting your brain into gear first.



Just stop. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. We didn't "interbreed" with white people, white males "bred" with us. It was literally against the law for us to mate with or marry white people (to instigate it). But white males could have whatever sexual partners they wanted. Sex slavery was a large part of the slave trade, with many of our women being purchased strictly for that reason. Even the US President Andrew Jackson's first slave was a young woman. Hence why there was roughly 250,000 mixed white-black people in America in 1860 according to the 1860 census.

Black males like Emmett Till are the examples of what happened when we even flirted with white people. In fact, interracial marriage was still illegal in most States when Pres Barack Obama was born. It took the 1967 Supreme Court Case Loving v. Virginia to end miscegenation laws (anti-interracial marriage laws) nationwide. So yeah, there's "white" blood in many of us. But it wasn't our choice & we weren't even claimed by the "white" people because of their own fear of reprisals for being "n-word lovers", "race traitors", etc.

So like I said, we African Americans have no connection to the UK except for slavery ties. And why would we want to remember or keep those bonds?



That's not the whole truth migo. Of course you had millions of rapes during slavery and segregation. But you also had interracial couples. Espeacially with the Native American population. I'm sure there were love children, life long couples and every other option since time immemorial.

Your playing into the same 3/5ths rule bs the slavers pushed. It's ridiculous that anyone with one drop of African blood is black and 3/5 a human) There are no actual races. Genetically we really are the same. So IMHO referring to people by race should quite literally only be a discriptive term. Like saying someone is blonde or tall.

All the rest is just a lie we tell ourselves. If you DNA test 10 unrelated people, 9 "black" and 1 "white". It is a near mathematical certainty that the white guy would be a closer match to a couple black guys then the black guys are to each other, and vise versa. The real truth is the more we mix the stronger the species is. AA's don't get skin cancer and Europeans don't carry the sicklecell trait.

The exact same goes for "whites", "we" are such a mix of all the various European, Native American, Asian exc that you couldn't actually find a pure bred ANYTHING in America. What we call AA's isn't even an actual "race" either. They look nothing like actual Africans they are so mixed with a smorgasbord of everything else just like every other American.

The only truely correct term is tribes. We as a species are no different then the Cherokee were from the chicasaw.


I'm confused by this response. Could you clarify? We're talking about African American connections to the UK. I'm saying our only connection to the UK was through slavery, while he was saying we had deep relationships connecting us to the UK.

EDIT: And for the record, I know we're all human. Race isn't something we came up with, anyway. The concept of "race" was created to divide people & create advantages for select groups of people.



Race was created because we are tribal by "nature"...or I guess really tribalism is an evolutionary throw back that used to be useful but no longer is. Like a hiccup (which is just the remnants from when we were water mammals).



I'm not just saying we are the same species (humans) I'm saying that your a closer genetic match to half the "whites" you know then you are to half the "blacks".

That and it was prob a mistake for the early civil rights champs to concede to being AA, black, mixed exc. When it tuns out there is no such thing. The same way there is no such thing as white. Espeacially with black and white Americans. You couldn't find a pure bred if you were being paid too.


Also I think your forgetting that slavery never ends if a HUGE portion of "white" America didn't fight just as hard as black civil rights leaders to end it. Same with segregation. Not that they couldn't have been organized and made life harder. But you can't overthrow something that nearly everyone in power wants. No matter what it is.



posted on Jun, 21 2015 @ 09:33 AM
link   

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Entreri06




I thought huge portions were forced from tribal religions, kinda like Native American or Australian fertility "cults" Into Christianity.


Many of the slaves were forced to give up their beliefs, languages, and cultures, but nowhere near all of them were. The truth is much more complex. For example, 15-30% of the African slaves were Muslims when they were brought over. Also, the Europeans, and later the Americans, didn't keep track of the previous religions or cultures of their slaves. So they have no records on if their slaves were originally a different form of Christianity, Muslims, or another Torah-following group.

Honestly, there are entire books on this stuff so it's hard to narrow it down. But an easy way to explain it is to look where most of America's slaves came from. The part of West Africa where most American slaves came from (mostly the "Gold Coast") had Christianity, Islam, and other Torah-following tribes for more than 1,000 years.



Oh and no offense but anthropology tells a totally different story then the bible..


I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this one. Can you clarify?



Anthropology doesn't back up the 12 tribes hypothesis. Nor Adam and Eve, nor Noah's flood or any other of the Old Testament claims. Hell there is literally no evidence the Jews were ever in Egypt. So looking at the Bronze Age myths of goat herders as history is a mistake.



posted on Jun, 21 2015 @ 11:08 PM
link   

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: enlightenedservant




we African Americans have no connection to the UK


Really ?

You do realise that Martin Luther King Jnr had Irish ancestry ?

Stop now. You're making yourself look like a complete fool.


What part of "except through slavery" do you not understand? You're not even good at trolling. At least trolls are funny with their comments. Your comments just wreak of a lack of reading comprehension.



posted on Jun, 21 2015 @ 11:33 PM
link   

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Entreri06




I thought huge portions were forced from tribal religions, kinda like Native American or Australian fertility "cults" Into Christianity.


Many of the slaves were forced to give up their beliefs, languages, and cultures, but nowhere near all of them were. The truth is much more complex. For example, 15-30% of the African slaves were Muslims when they were brought over. Also, the Europeans, and later the Americans, didn't keep track of the previous religions or cultures of their slaves. So they have no records on if their slaves were originally a different form of Christianity, Muslims, or another Torah-following group.

Honestly, there are entire books on this stuff so it's hard to narrow it down. But an easy way to explain it is to look where most of America's slaves came from. The part of West Africa where most American slaves came from (mostly the "Gold Coast") had Christianity, Islam, and other Torah-following tribes for more than 1,000 years.



Oh and no offense but anthropology tells a totally different story then the bible..


I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this one. Can you clarify?



Anthropology doesn't back up the 12 tribes hypothesis. Nor Adam and Eve, nor Noah's flood or any other of the Old Testament claims. Hell there is literally no evidence the Jews were ever in Egypt. So looking at the Bronze Age myths of goat herders as history is a mistake.


What does any of that have to do with what I said? The Kingdom of Kush/Cush/Nubia is a historical fact. As are Ur (where Abraham/Abram was supposedly from) and the other Canaanites (start w/3rd paragraph for archeological info). As is Makeda ("the Queen of Sheba") & Menelik I. And as I said, the stories from the Old Testament were in Africa & Western Asia. Whether you believe the stories or not doesn't change the fact that the stories are said to have taken place in Africa & Western Asia.

Also, "Jews" are simply the members of the Tribe of Judah. Moses & his brother Aaron weren't even from that tribe, so I don't get your point there either. The Prophet Joseph & his family weren't Jews either (you know, the 12th son of the Prophet Jacob/Yaqub who received the Prophethood from him & lived in Egypt). In fact, the notable Prophets weren't from the Tribe of Judah either up until the Prophet David/Dawood & his son Solomon. And yes, the Kingdom of Judah/"Judea" and the Kingdom of Israel are historical facts, as well.

Also, I don't even know what 12 Tribes hypothesis you're talking about. Can you explain it? And what does that have to with what I actually typed? I was showing that Africa has a long history with those religions long before the American slave trade & the Arab slave trade.



posted on Jun, 21 2015 @ 11:38 PM
link   

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: enlightenedservant




we African Americans have no connection to the UK


Really ?

You do realise that Martin Luther King Jnr had Irish ancestry ?

Stop now. You're making yourself look like a complete fool.


What part of "except through slavery" do you not understand? You're not even good at trolling. At least trolls are funny with their comments. Your comments just wreak of a lack of reading comprehension.



AAs have just as much of a connection to erode as every other America. We all have European blood and....hell that's it. Your acting like "whites" and "blacks" are part of some club with a mailing list and memos. You have European blood. I have European blood. You don't know anyone in England. I don't know anyone in England.


Most of the times the truth is both political sides to varying degrees.



Of course there isn't vast conspiracy by police to kill black males.

But, yes we have a problem with bully cops that black males are disproportionately effected (killed) by.


Yes you had racist white slavers who treated there slaves like cattle.
But
Yes, some of the most ferocious civil rights/abolutionist champions were white.


In reality the whole race thing is fake. With this thread (that I should have called ghetto names not AA names) I was only talking about efficiency. What hinders or inmproves your child's chances for sucess. Only the 1+1=2 . Not if 1 was a racist bastard and 2 should really be 3.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 12:00 AM
link   

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Entreri06




I thought huge portions were forced from tribal religions, kinda like Native American or Australian fertility "cults" Into Christianity.


Many of the slaves were forced to give up their beliefs, languages, and cultures, but nowhere near all of them were. The truth is much more complex. For example, 15-30% of the African slaves were Muslims when they were brought over. Also, the Europeans, and later the Americans, didn't keep track of the previous religions or cultures of their slaves. So they have no records on if their slaves were originally a different form of Christianity, Muslims, or another Torah-following group.

Honestly, there are entire books on this stuff so it's hard to narrow it down. But an easy way to explain it is to look where most of America's slaves came from. The part of West Africa where most American slaves came from (mostly the "Gold Coast") had Christianity, Islam, and other Torah-following tribes for more than 1,000 years.



Oh and no offense but anthropology tells a totally different story then the bible..


I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this one. Can you clarify?



Anthropology doesn't back up the 12 tribes hypothesis. Nor Adam and Eve, nor Noah's flood or any other of the Old Testament claims. Hell there is literally no evidence the Jews were ever in Egypt. So looking at the Bronze Age myths of goat herders as history is a mistake.


What does any of that have to do with what I said? The Kingdom of Kush/Cush/Nubia is a historical fact. As are Ur (where Abraham/Abram was supposedly from) and the other Canaanites (start w/3rd paragraph for archeological info). As is Makeda ("the Queen of Sheba") & Menelik I. And as I said, the stories from the Old Testament were in Africa & Western Asia. Whether you believe the stories or not doesn't change the fact that the stories are said to have taken place in Africa & Western Asia.

Also, "Jews" are simply the members of the Tribe of Judah. Moses & his brother Aaron weren't even from that tribe, so I don't get your point there either. The Prophet Joseph & his family weren't Jews either (you know, the 12th son of the Prophet Jacob/Yaqub who received the Prophethood from him & lived in Egypt). In fact, the notable Prophets weren't from the Tribe of Judah either up until the Prophet David/Dawood & his son Solomon. And yes, the Kingdom of Judah/"Judea" and the Kingdom of Israel are historical facts, as well.

Also, I don't even know what 12 Tribes hypothesis you're talking about. Can you explain it? And what does that have to with what I actually typed? I was showing that Africa has a long history with those religions long before the American slave trade & the Arab slave trade.


The 12 tribes hypothesis..... Where the 12 tribes of isreal populated the earth from Adam and Eve.

There was never a time when there wee only Jews on the planet. Your taking a true part , that judism and Christianity was already in circulation pre American slavery and leaving out the same line your tracings completely false origin of humanity. During the time supposedly only the sons of Adam were roaming around. Really you had multiple ancient empires who ALL kept slaves. Including the African ones. Which if memory serves were some of the biggest at the time on the planet.


I'm saying that no matter who came in and forced Islam, Christianity or judism on various tribes in Africa, it was probubally forced...and by slavers. No matter when the the Hebrew religions showed up. Weather it was Solomon's army or later and they rewrote history (there is some debate about when the Solomon stories first surfaced in Ethiopia).

Slavery didn't start with the coonization of the Americas by the British. It was just continued in America.

I've gotta look up where they stopped keeping white slaves but decided Africans were still fair game. That's something I don't think I've ever heard referenced and probubally incredibly important to the history considering the effect it's had on the future.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 01:00 AM
link   

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Entreri06




I thought huge portions were forced from tribal religions, kinda like Native American or Australian fertility "cults" Into Christianity.


Many of the slaves were forced to give up their beliefs, languages, and cultures, but nowhere near all of them were. The truth is much more complex. For example, 15-30% of the African slaves were Muslims when they were brought over. Also, the Europeans, and later the Americans, didn't keep track of the previous religions or cultures of their slaves. So they have no records on if their slaves were originally a different form of Christianity, Muslims, or another Torah-following group.

Honestly, there are entire books on this stuff so it's hard to narrow it down. But an easy way to explain it is to look where most of America's slaves came from. The part of West Africa where most American slaves came from (mostly the "Gold Coast") had Christianity, Islam, and other Torah-following tribes for more than 1,000 years.



Oh and no offense but anthropology tells a totally different story then the bible..


I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this one. Can you clarify?



Anthropology doesn't back up the 12 tribes hypothesis. Nor Adam and Eve, nor Noah's flood or any other of the Old Testament claims. Hell there is literally no evidence the Jews were ever in Egypt. So looking at the Bronze Age myths of goat herders as history is a mistake.


What does any of that have to do with what I said? The Kingdom of Kush/Cush/Nubia is a historical fact. As are Ur (where Abraham/Abram was supposedly from) and the other Canaanites (start w/3rd paragraph for archeological info). As is Makeda ("the Queen of Sheba") & Menelik I. And as I said, the stories from the Old Testament were in Africa & Western Asia. Whether you believe the stories or not doesn't change the fact that the stories are said to have taken place in Africa & Western Asia.

Also, "Jews" are simply the members of the Tribe of Judah. Moses & his brother Aaron weren't even from that tribe, so I don't get your point there either. The Prophet Joseph & his family weren't Jews either (you know, the 12th son of the Prophet Jacob/Yaqub who received the Prophethood from him & lived in Egypt). In fact, the notable Prophets weren't from the Tribe of Judah either up until the Prophet David/Dawood & his son Solomon. And yes, the Kingdom of Judah/"Judea" and the Kingdom of Israel are historical facts, as well.

Also, I don't even know what 12 Tribes hypothesis you're talking about. Can you explain it? And what does that have to with what I actually typed? I was showing that Africa has a long history with those religions long before the American slave trade & the Arab slave trade.


The 12 tribes hypothesis..... Where the 12 tribes of isreal populated the earth from Adam and Eve.

There was never a time when there wee only Jews on the planet. Your taking a true part , that judism and Christianity was already in circulation pre American slavery and leaving out the same line your tracings completely false origin of humanity. During the time supposedly only the sons of Adam were roaming around. Really you had multiple ancient empires who ALL kept slaves. Including the African ones. Which if memory serves were some of the biggest at the time on the planet.


I'm saying that no matter who came in and forced Islam, Christianity or judism on various tribes in Africa, it was probubally forced...and by slavers. No matter when the the Hebrew religions showed up. Weather it was Solomon's army or later and they rewrote history (there is some debate about when the Solomon stories first surfaced in Ethiopia).

Slavery didn't start with the coonization of the Americas by the British. It was just continued in America.

I've gotta look up where they stopped keeping white slaves but decided Africans were still fair game. That's something I don't think I've ever heard referenced and probubally incredibly important to the history considering the effect it's had on the future.


Ok, this is getting boring. You're attacking arguments I'm not even making. I don't believe anything like the 12 Tribes populating the world. That wouldn't even make sense, seeing as the Kingdoms of Judah/Judea & Israel were very small and only existed between 1000BC & the 500s BC. They have literally nothing to do with the populations in North America, South America, Australia, Europe, or the vast majority of Africa or Asia. However, many of their Torah-following groups from 1000BC onward did settle through Africa & Asia. But they were minorities there & their descendants are still minorities to this day.

Also, when did I say Europeans created slavery or even anything close to that? And it was different Popes in the 1700s & early 1800s who expanded on what was "just" and "unjust" slavery. But I don't feel like looking that up for you since that has nothing to do with my argument either.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 03:31 AM
link   
a reply to: enlightenedservant





we African Americans have no connection to the UK


I have repeated above what you stated.

Can't you see what you are saying.? It doesn't matter if the connection to The U.K. is through slavery and the in breading between slave owner and slave. The connection is still there.

Your conception of what defines a " connection to The U.K. " is completely fastidious.


edit on 22-6-2015 by alldaylong because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 11:48 AM
link   
a reply to: [post=19466489]Entreri06[/post

It's apparent to me you only made this thread to make fun of people. Why not try to focus your energy on something worthwhile.





posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 05:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: Entreri06

I hope this thread isn't taken a way I don't intend. Just for background, I'm a 33 white make from mississippi. That said I grew up in trailerparks and project housing, more then once being the only "white" (race is a BS creation) family on the block. Never had one bit of trouble tho. In fact me and my brother were fairly "untouchable" because of it. We an army of sorta thugged out friends who would go the bat for us instantly. Multiple times having having a black best friend in school.


Ok here's where I could be precieved as racist and the actual rant. :p




WHAT tHE HELL! are African Americans thinking when they name there kid ghetto @$$ names!!!

They grew up in America, at times getting profiled and disrespected over there race! Why in the hell would you ensure your child has as hard a time as humanly possible?? Just so you can look ghetto as hell to your friends because you named your child shiniqua!!! Do you really need to feel so unique that it's worth sabotaging every job application your child ever has!!

It's ridiculous, anytime a real employer (aka not fast food) sees a ghetto @$$ name on an application. I guarentee it's trash canned! All so you can brag to your unemployed friends about how you spelled it different....


Stop playing into the stereo type!!! Or if you just freakin have to leave your child out of it!!!


I 100% agree it shouldn't matter what your parents name you, but we all know it does. I'm cool with political statements like that and such, but you have NO right to hamstring your child like that!


No offense but do you really think if someone is that racist a name makes much of a difference? When they actually meet the person it doesn't matter if her name is Shaniqua (your example) or Penelope, or Jasmine.

She's still black and the racist(s) will still act on their own stupidity to discriminate against her based on the amount of melanin in her skin.

I was born with a boys name originally (though one which a lot of girls use as an abbreviation now funnily enough). I had my name and birth certificate officially changed with my parents permission by order of the court when I was 15.

If the person feels they are being discriminated against for having a "black" or other "ethnic" name and feels that by changing it to something more Western European will help their status in life I have no problem with that and they can do what I did.

They're not stuck with the name for life if they do not want it.

I'm interracial (African American/European American with a little Native American blood) for what it's worth.
edit on 23-6-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)




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