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Those in authority are God's servants?

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posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 08:45 PM
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Romans 13
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.


This passage from Romans 13 establishes that all authority on Earth has been established by God. If this is the case then why is there so much war between different countries and thus authority figures? Why are there so many different types of government throughout history with differing ideologies? Some are socialist, some communist, some democratic, some theocratic, etc.

If God has established all authorities then why is there so much conflict in the world? If God established them all then why is he establishing them under so many differing government structures that cause wars and embargoes, etc. And why is there a two-party system in America, a supposedly "Christian" nation?

If God truly establishes all governing authorities then there would be no war, all leaders would share the same ideologies, governing authorities wouldn't put innocent people in jail, authorities wouldn't lie to the people to line their own pockets, etc.

Does God really establish all authorities? If so, he's done a piss poor job in my opinion.




posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 08:52 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Cuz God didn't establish those rulers.

This is clearly talking about rulers that have been legit put in power by God. Not wannabe tyrants.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 08:52 PM
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There's no authority in heaven except what God established.

Down here the circus is run by the freaks.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 08:53 PM
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a reply to: AnuTyr

You must have missed the first bolded part of the passage. "There is no authority except that which God has established", meaning all authorities are established by God according to the bible.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: Trachel


Romans 13
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


Do they pay taxes in heaven?



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

No, but the corrupt humans who modified that passage sure wanted you to.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 08:58 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Well of course, Because the rulers you think are rulers are just scavengers. And just like the rodents they are, They will flee in terror before the might of the Lord, and the authority that has been placed which only God can establish.

God did not establish your so called * Leaders* They established a delusion upon the masses to believe they are the leaders and if some of the masses think god put them up there well that's all just dandy for the savangers.

But bring in real authority, and everyone will feel the overwhelming presence of power, And true authority reaching into space itself.


edit on pm60000003015Thu, 18 Jun 2015 21:01:31 -0500 by AnuTyr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 09:04 PM
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a reply to: AnuTyr

That's not what the passage says I'm afraid. It does not distinguish "real" authorities from "fake" authorities, it simply says governing authorities, all of them in fact.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 09:05 PM
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a reply to: Trachel

Well that would open up the door for any number of passages being corrupted by humans. It would also mean the bible is not infallible nor incorruptible.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 09:12 PM
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So, what you (the bible actually) are saying is that God has instilled say Hitler, Ghandi, ISIS, the Dalai Llama into leadership.

I perhaps think this is not meant to be a literal or global thing and applies to say the Catholic Church who claims to have an unbroken line back to Peter or say the Church of England, Orthodox etc etc who have long lineages of spiritual leaders.
edit on 18-6-2015 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 09:12 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: AnuTyr

That's not what the passage says I'm afraid. It does not distinguish "real" authorities from "fake" authorities, it simply says governing authorities, all of them in fact.





except that which God has established


No governing authority except what God has established.
Did god establish the United States of America? Or was that people? Explain how * God* established any of these so called scavengers people follow?




whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted


If God didn't institute the current system and way of doing things, Than who would be rebelling?

Regardless, its like my prior post. People can choose to believe those in power were institutionalized by God in God school on who to rule and how then what you are implying by this passage means what you are saying it does if taken out of context. But by context it's pretty literal by how i described it.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 09:15 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

A few things on this:

The connection between Romans 12 and Romans 13 is clear. If the Christian is not to seek personal vengeance, it does not take away the government's authority to punish wrongdoers.

Paul simply says that we should be subject to the governing authorities. This was in contrast to groups of zealous Jews in that day who recognized no king but God and paid taxes to no one but God.

Since governments have authority from God, we are bound to obey them - unless, of course, they order us to do something in contradiction to God's law. Then, we are commanded to obey God before man (as in Acts 4:19). God uses governing authorities as a check upon man's sinful desires and tendencies. Government can be an effective tool in resisting the effects of man's corrupt nature (laws). The job of government: to punish and deter evildoers.

Paul's idea is that Christians should be the best citizens of all. Even though they are loyal to God before they are loyal to the state, Christians are good citizens because they are honest, give no trouble to the state, pay their taxes, and - most importantly - pray for the state and the rulers.

Christian obedience to the state is never blind - it obeys with the eyes of conscience wide open.

We are also to pay the taxes due from us, because there is a sense in which we support God's work when we do so.

By implication, Romans 13:6 also says that the taxes collected are to be used by government to get the job done of restraining evil and keeping an orderly society - not to enrich the government officials themselves.

We are to give to the state the money, honor, and proper reverence which are due to the state, all the while reserving our right to give to God that which is due to God alone (Matthew 22:21).
edit on 18-6-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 09:18 PM
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Explain how God has established any authority throughout history. Name a truly benevolent governmental system anywhere in history and maybe you'll have a point. I don't believe God has instituted any governing authority in history, I'm disagreeing with the passage. While this passage was being written the Roman authorities were throwing Jesus' followers to the lions and burning them on stakes and crucifying them. Obviously this passage is totally wrong and completely untrue by the fact that it says ALL governing authorities are God's servants for our good.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 09:20 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The messiah is the Authority lol. Institutionalized by God. There's a whole book about it. It's called the bible.


edit on pm60000003015Thu, 18 Jun 2015 21:22:24 -0500 by AnuTyr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: infolurker

The passage also states that rulers do not bear their swords for no reason on those who do good. The Roman authorities killed thousands of Jesus' earliest followers for trying to spread the truth, I don't see how the passage can be true with that fact in mind.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 09:24 PM
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a reply to: AnuTyr

Does the messiah demand taxes? "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, give unto God what is God's" (Matthew 22) was in reference to whether people should pay taxes. Taxes are for Caesar, not God, Romans 13 is talking about rulers who demand taxes for their full time governing, meaning it must be talking about Earthly rulers, not the messiah.
edit on 6/18/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 09:26 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

humans made this mess. They have to fix it or disappear.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 09:33 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yeah but that's ceasar, That's not God. That was a roman imperial. Obviously the Messiah was still chilling in his tomb beneith the sands of time by the time all that rolled around. Kinda hard to demand taxes when you're dead. But people have used the same misinterpritation of the text to use to their own benifit. Like i said, People can believe who ever they want was chosen by God to lead. Doesn't make it any more true.

That's just the mass majority following what they believe some dude said. And that dude was not God.
God didn't write the bible. Dudes and dudettes did. God also does not print the bible. People do. Does it make the establishment statement false? No it's just a universal fact, if you don't believe in a messiah from Heaven/ Space. Like a space Jesus from Heaven. Then you are only trying to point at the obvious controlling lines implanted by mans own design. Has nothing to do with God, Hense why i named such organizations of power Scavengers.

Because they flee at the might of God, our creator. And evil will be destroyed indefinently. Well, Human evil. People do get slain in the end times but no one references the messiah as the villian because its described as punishment. What can a group of rich people do against supernatural damnation? The bible kinda speaks about that but im only trying to stay relevant to Godly endorced authority here.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 09:39 PM
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a reply to: AnuTyr

So Jesus wasn't talking about Caesar literally. I already know that, he was talking about the imperial (government) tax, implying God does not demand taxes, only "Caesar" (the imperial government) does.

Paul says that the governing authorities who we pay taxes to are God's servants. It says so clearly.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 09:39 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: infolurker

The passage also states that rulers do not bear their swords for no reason on those who do good. The Roman authorities killed thousands of Jesus' earliest followers for trying to spread the truth, I don't see how the passage can be true with that fact in mind.


CONTEXT, it's all about context.

I agree with your point - this passage is not capital NOT supposed to be taken literally.

The major problem American born fundamental Christianity has is that it holds the firm belief that the bible is a set of literal directions on how to run your life and the world around you. Clearly they do not understand the term parable (a story to illustrate a point)

The bible is a complicated mess of parables, literal truth and the history of Israel. Therefore it should never be taken as a word for word literal instruction manual.



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