It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Pope calls for end to fossil fuels

page: 8
26
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:00 PM
link   

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis

Too bad we don't get a choice.


Wait. If we are indeed making the earth hotter then is that not be choice?


]
You do understand that that cost is not per year? What does it mean long term do you think? Or, still not worth it - no matter what?


You tell me, it works out to around $72,000 per person. Is that economical in your opinion? Do you think that is a worthwhile investment?




posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:01 PM
link   
I still vote for the nuclear option if people won't listen, which I know they won't.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti
The pope on the toilet



The Pope on his throne? Non c'è problema.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:05 PM
link   
a reply to: Blaine91555


Solar is great if you happen to live where it is viable. Wind is great if you happen to be where the wind blows strongly most of the time. How do you store the energy and how much environmental damage is caused and energy used to produce the batteries needed.

The sun is always shining somewhere, the wind is always blowing somewhere. Part of the solution lies in building a renewable infrastructure wide-reaching enough so this intermittency problem is largely smoothed out on its own.

Storage technology solutions are also coming along: molten salt storage, flywheel tech, pumped hydro reservoirs, etc. Not all of them are economically viable yet, but there are many factors also conveniently spun by the naysayers when crunching some real numbers here – particularly the hidden health costs of fossil fuels, which some have estimated in the trillions:

Fossil Fuels Subsidised By $10m a Minute, Says IMF

Meanwhile Tesla’s selling a 10Kw home storage solution already for $3500.



Do you assume that industries needs just go away and without industry the world could be fed.

No. I’m counting on industry to lead the charge on these changes. But they need incentives to do these things for the long term benefits (both environmental and economic), rather than just making the quickest buck.



This is far more complex IMO than just waving a wand and saying goodbye to fossil fuels. It's decades, perhaps.

Nobody’s saying it will happen overnight. The link I left before estimates it could be done in 20-40 years. But the point is there’s nothing stopping us from getting going right now, except all the political resistance from the entities who prefer the system that’s making them absurdly rich right now.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:08 PM
link   

originally posted by: mc_squared
First you were complaining that the Vatican is not leading by example.


Another one? I said the POPE is not leading by example.


Then when it’s also pointed out those 836 people are spending over $600 million on renewable energy, you declare it a giant waste of money.


Do you think $72,000 per person is a good investment?


You understand that a 100MW power plant produces much more energy than is needed for 836 people right?


Ever been to Vatican City (I have)? Ever see how many large buildings are there? How do they heat cool them? That is where the power goes.



Just once I wish we could see a climate change thread here that isn’t immediately hijacked by some babbling denier talking in circles, contradicting themselves, and derailing an otherwise important topic with falsehoods and unapologetic ignorance.


You have a reading comprehension issue? I never said the climate is not changing. As a matter of fact, I WANT IT TO CHANGE. I want it to get warmer. That clear this time or do I need to post it again for you in all capitals?



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:08 PM
link   
a reply to: TheRedneck

Those are predictions for the next two years, not some far away hypothetical future. They’re also based on real world data – namely how quickly these prices are dropping and continue to drop right now:

The cost of wind and solar power keeps dropping all over the world

Again this is all based on real research, from highly reputable sources. All I see in your rebuttal though is a lot of handwaving and naive conjecture:


That available energy itself is limited to about 1.5 kW per cubic meter, which is the maximum energy received from the sun.

Yes. Do you have any idea how much this amounts to globally?


Photovoltaics produce only low-voltage, medium current DC power. For transmission purposes, high voltage, low current AC power is required.

Panels are connected in series to up the voltage, the strings then get combined and fed into an inverter for AC, and ultimately run through a transformer like everything else for transmission.


That is the current state of research. I see nothing in there that tells me that photovoltaics or even concentrated solar will achieve the predictions claimed.

Sorry.


I work on large scale grid-tied solar installations. We do this every day. I don’t think you understand how solar even works considering that last paragraph, sorry.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:12 PM
link   
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I really don't care how much you want to backpedal and spin your story now. Your posts are all there for anyone to read in their ignorant glory. Climate deniers are defined by much more than just their opinions about which way the climate's going. Pretending that thing in your mouth is not your foot is plenty enough evidence to earn the label.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:15 PM
link   
a reply to: masqua

Good reply!

The history of Theocracies. I'm a rock solid believer in church staying out of state matters and tending to their flock.

I get what you are saying, but the Pope does not tax, regulate business and industry or legislate and I think its OK to have an opinion, but we are not the World States of Catholics.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:16 PM
link   

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: KawRider9
a reply to: 2012newstart

Practice what you preach, or, lead by example.

I'm soooooo sick of folks with authority telling us mere serfs to "do what's right", while they live lavish lifestyles.

How much electricity does the Vatican use? Where does their heat come from?

Burning wood has now been deemed bad, so where exactly do we get heat from? Cuddled masses?

As a believer in the flying spaghetti monster in the sky, I say cram your political thoughts up your popeness ass!

Preach religion not politics!


This. Also I doubt they teach engineering and physics in Pope school.




Jorge Mario Bergoglio[13] was born in Buenos Aires. He was one of the children of an Italian railway worker.[3] His father was called Mario Bergoglio and his mother was called Regina. He received a master's degree in philosophy and theology from the University of Buenos Aires



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: mc_squared

I really don't care how much you want to backpedal and spin your story now. Your posts are all there for anyone to read in their ignorant glory.


Then show me where I contradicted or backpedaled, it should be reaaaaaaal easy. I made it clear that Il Papa needed to lead by example, not with his hypocritical mouth.


Climate deniers are defined by much more than just their opinions about which way the climate's going. Pretending that thing in your mouth is not your foot is plenty enough evidence to earn the label.


Listen, I know reading skills are not what they used to be, I get it, however, for the third time in this thread, I am not disputing the climate is changing. I want it to change. I want it warmer. I am ALL for whatever the term is that you want to call it, be it climate change or global warming or whatever the nom de jour happens to be.

Do you get it? Did that penetrate through the cranial density disorder?



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:19 PM
link   
I feel for the man-made climate-change crowd.

They have to agree with a religious leader, when their other religious leader is Al Gore.

How can they insult religion (not theirs) when that religious leader wants what they want.

Man. Awkward.. . . . .



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:24 PM
link   
a reply to: Blaine91555

Yeah... and I'm no Catholic either.

BUT (the inevitable but)

The Pope does bear a responsibility to his rather large flock, many of which will be in serious straits should we increase average global temperatures to the scary 4 degree mark.

Will it happen? I dunno. Do I want to see it happen? No. I'm not like some who think it'll just lead to milder winters and I do have children to think about.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:27 PM
link   
a reply to: mc_squared

Over a few decades I agree, but it's got to be done sensibly and not by knee jerk reactions based on science needing government grants and radical environmentalism based on emotion rather than reality.

We are not that far apart and what keep the feud going is one side claiming the other wants an unclean environment because they employ logic in the mix.

The crap I was force fed in college in the 1970's still tastes bad and makes me highly skeptical and I recognize that. They were just as sure and using similar arguments and yet they were almost entirely wrong. The problem then was activists getting involved and politicians pandering to them or being one of them.

40 years? Perhaps. I can give you that.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:30 PM
link   
a reply to: masqua

I will agree it needs to happen, but the interference of any religion turns me off I admit and I'm a Christian.

We need to get the radicals out of the mix and work together, but that's way to much to hope for it seems.



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:32 PM
link   
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Dont you have a ideology to fullfil?



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:33 PM
link   

originally posted by: Temudjin
Dont you have a ideology to fullfil?


What would that be?



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:34 PM
link   
a reply to: mc_squared


The sun is always shining somewhere, the wind is always blowing somewhere. Part of the solution lies in building a renewable infrastructure wide-reaching enough so this intermittency problem is largely smoothed out on its own.

I'm sorry.... did you really say that?

There's plenty of food in my kitchen; why are children starving in other countries? There's tons of heat right here right now; why is it cold in Antarctica? Oklahoma is becoming a waterpark; why is it dry in the Sahara?

We need power 24 hours a day, not somewhere in the world, but everywhere in the world. If you are advocating that we only use power during daylight hours, I disagreee vehemently! If you are saying that it is remotely practical to transmit power across thousands of miles without the energy cost exceeding the energy delivered many fold, then I would point you to a beginners book on electricity. It simply does not work that way.


torage technology solutions are also coming along:

The key phrase in there is "not yet viable." As soon as they become viable, they will be available commercially and in widespread use within a few years.

Tesla does have an impressive storage system; it is an offshoot of their work into battery efficiency to produce their vehicles. Those vehicles are becoming viable (I would love to have a Model S), but while their system is cutting-edge for home power storage, it is still insufficient for more than a single night's use of electricity. In other words, pray you don't have a cloudy day the next day.

That's not to belittle their accomplishment, but rather to emphasize to you how far we are from a workable personal generation system for the average person. I would be surprsed if Mr. Musk didn't keep Tesla at the forefront of improvements.

The rest of your post quotes someone else...

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:35 PM
link   
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

For someone who thinks the Masonry of the US is anything of the ancient world. You fill a purpose dont think otherwise. Puppeter



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:38 PM
link   
a reply to: TheRedneck

I think the main message is balance



posted on Jun, 18 2015 @ 05:38 PM
link   

originally posted by: Temudjin
For someone who thinks the Masonry of the US is anything of the ancient world.


Who said it was of the ancient world? It has more to do with medieval guilds and enlightenment philosophy.


You fill a purpose dont think otherwise. Puppeter


Yeah, my purpose is to drink Scotch. Do you know what yours is?




top topics



 
26
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join