Pope calls for end to fossil fuels

originally posted by: amazing
The economist estimates that the Catholic church spends 4.7 Billion per year on charities such as homeless shelters, for one example. And they've been spending at least this much for decades. Again, not defending the Catholic church and this is just one source but...It's probably pretty close to the mark.

That is Catholic Charities USA which is not an official arm of the Vatican.

I told you this would not be easy.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: amazing
The economist estimates that the Catholic church spends 4.7 Billion per year on charities such as homeless shelters, for one example. And they've been spending at least this much for decades. Again, not defending the Catholic church and this is just one source but...It's probably pretty close to the mark.

That is Catholic Charities USA which is not an official arm of the Vatican.

I told you this would not be easy.

Yeah but the economist tied that 4.7 billion directly to the catholic church, ergo the Vatican. They could have been wrong but...I don't think that's off the mark, especially when you consider that the Catholic Church generally spends $170 Billion per year on operations, healthcare, payroll, charities and everything else....yes including settlements in child molestation cases.

However, back on point. I don't think this pope is being a hypocrite when saying that we need to work on climate change, income equality etc. especially considering that he spent his life in impoverished regions, is well educated and knows first hand what income equality and climate change can do to impoverished regions... then you have the scientific arm of the catholics...real scientists with PHds and stuff telling him the truth about climate change...global warming.

AGain, it's a good, rousing document that I can get behind that I hope over a billion catholics get behind so that the world will actually start doing something about pollution, global warming and the poor.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I see the thread, once interesting, has degenerated into mindless Pope-bashing.

But before I leave, I wanted to tell you how great it is to see you posting something even if you are a grouchypants.

Peace out,
liw

a reply to: ladyinwaiting


It was great debating with you, lady. And you may have noticed I have tried to avoid said Pope-bashing. .. such is futile at best and irritating at worst. But it is also inevitable, I fear.

Hope to see you around again.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Hummm...again what "science" are you talking about?... The GCM (Global Circulation Models) being used by the AGW camp to claim mankind is to blame for climate change when the majority of the GCMs are wrong?...



Or are you talking about those scientist proponents of the AGW hoax whom have been caught time and again lying, posting false information. Rigging temperature data to try to sell the AGW hoax, etc, etc?... Are those the "scientists" you are talking about?...

Or about those other scientists whom are siding with the AGW camp so they can get more funding as long as they spout the AGW hoax?...

originally posted by: amazing
....

However, back on point. I don't think this pope is being a hypocrite when saying that we need to work on climate change, income equality etc. especially considering that he spent his life in impoverished regions, is well educated and knows first hand what income equality and climate change can do to impoverished regions... then you have the scientific arm of the catholics...real scientists with PHds and stuff telling him the truth about climate change...global warming.
...

It's more like, this pope is being used to try to persuade Catholics and other religious people to fall in line with TPTB plans. That's what this is all about. The One World Government "to combat climate change"... Of course they know they can't combat climate change" but they can lure people into thinking it can be done meanwhile more draconian laws than ever before are put in place "for the good of all of course"...

At first, it would appear as "heaven" to everyone who will agree with this pope, but in time people will slowly but surely begin to realize what this is really about. POWER and CONTROL over people.

originally posted by: amazing

Yeah but the economist tied that 4.7 billion directly to the catholic church, ergo the Vatican.

It is donated by Catholics in the United States and is a separate charity, the Vatican does not disclose who, where and how much they donate. Ever.

I don't think this pope is being a hypocrite when saying that we need to work on climate change, income equality etc.

Hey, if you want to think a guy living in a palace telling everyone else what to do is cool that is your prerogative.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: amazing

Yeah but the economist tied that 4.7 billion directly to the catholic church, ergo the Vatican.

It is donated by Catholics in the United States and is a separate charity, the Vatican does not disclose who, where and how much they donate. Ever.

I don't think this pope is being a hypocrite when saying that we need to work on climate change, income equality etc.

Hey, if you want to think a guy living in a palace telling everyone else what to do is cool that is your prerogative.

But all world leaders live in Palaces. Or at least nice places. When you're a leader, you get perks. I'm not saying you're wrong on all this, but I think there's another side.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: amazing
....

However, back on point. I don't think this pope is being a hypocrite when saying that we need to work on climate change, income equality etc. especially considering that he spent his life in impoverished regions, is well educated and knows first hand what income equality and climate change can do to impoverished regions... then you have the scientific arm of the catholics...real scientists with PHds and stuff telling him the truth about climate change...global warming.
...

It's more like, this pope is being used to try to persuade Catholics and other religious people to fall in line with TPTB plans. That's what this is all about. The One World Government "to combat climate change"... Of course they know they can't combat climate change" but they can lure people into thinking it can be done meanwhile more draconian laws than ever before are put in place "for the good of all of course"...

At first, it would appear as "heaven" to everyone who will agree with this pope, but in time people will slowly but surely begin to realize what this is really about. POWER and CONTROL over people.

But that's just it. You might be totally wrong and I might be totally right. I'm willing to concede that with more information and scientists telling me and providing me with this information, that you could be totally right.

However, the pope has aligned himself with most of the worlds scientists as have I. It appears he's correct at least accordign to most scientists and scientific organizations.

And we know that we can combat climate change even if it's not man made. We can build see walls and restrict construction on low lying areas that are going to be prone to flooding. We can engineer our cities to be better prepared for intense hurricanes and flooding and droughts and tornadoes and snowfall. We can plan for water for drought effected areas. We can build better climate models to predict drought and flooding. We can make our air conditioning more efficient as well as our buildings better insolated. We can invest in renewable energy, especially in impoverished regions. We can invest in better recycling technologies. We can do so much. And we should.

originally posted by: amazing
But all world leaders live in Palaces. Or at least nice places. When you're a leader, you get perks. I'm not saying you're wrong on all this, but I think there's another side.

Have you been to the Vatican? There is no comparison to any other non-dictatorial regimes state house.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

There is no comparison to any other non-dictatorial regimes state house.

You mean, anything like this?

a reply to: amazing

This has got to be one of the more of the least intelligent threads I've seen. Some one posts a pretty important topic considering there are prob a billion Catholics and the pope is basically gods voice on earth for them. The ATS reaction has been nonsensical..


I didn't read the entire thread, just a couple pages from the front and back. The ramafacations of this a freakin huge! But all of this threads reaction has been dismissive and childish.


This new pope has been batting 1000. He has back off of gay marriage, attacked speacial intrest, accepted science and pretty much just been the most Christ like person to have graced "public life" in my life time.


I hate to break it to you Christians, but your on the way out. The only way any of the garbage we were all spoon fed as kids is real. Is if the entire world is in some vast conspiracy to discredit Jesus, God and a ship building family who incested us all into existance. You preach forgivness as you offer none. You have all these "warriors for Jesus!" Even tho the entire New Testament specifically tells you to do the opposite.

All of the madness as well as christianities inability accept scientific truths has lead to huge drops in believers and church attendence.

Then you finally have a real light in the darkness. A real life true believer who practices what he preaches who actually has the position to effect change. Who really does legitamaly seem to care for ALL the people of the world and what happens when the highest religious figure on the planet disagrees with Americas evangelical right wing politics? They scorn him even the Catholics. This guy is THE ONE HOPE Christianity has to survive the Information Age and y'all crap on him.



I'm an atheist, which some would say makes me biased but I think gives me a "side view of the chess board". I really think if this guy can't unite most of Christianity and drag them kicking and screaming into the future, then no one can. All y'all's kicking and screaming really will be christianities death throws.

originally posted by: masqua
[
You mean, anything like this?

Which world leader lives there?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It's good to know that the Masonic orders world-wide are not involved in the improvement of humankind, like the current pope.

Thanks for saying the masons aren't world leaders as I've often thought about contacting members over the years. My European relatives have had much to do with various orders and I'd mistakenly thought that they did have somewhat of an influence in global affairs.

Now that I know they don't, it helps make my decision easier.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: amazing
But all world leaders live in Palaces. Or at least nice places. When you're a leader, you get perks. I'm not saying you're wrong on all this, but I think there's another side.

Have you been to the Vatican? There is no comparison to any other non-dictatorial regimes state house.

He just got there and (assuming he is the real deal as he seems) and has millinia of corruption and opulence to unravel. He has already taken steps to do so. There was the story a while back about the priest who built a multi million dollar mansion or something. This pope sold it and had him scrubbing floors if I'm right.


He hasn't had time to undo all the corruption yet. There are centuries of layers to break thru. Maybe he doesn't and shows he's just a greedy, power hungry fraud but if he's acting he's doing an amazing job.



He asked for the world to progressively and responsibly begin moving to renewable energy. Not to all start living like cave men tom. Your analogy about "cutting off his AC" was just silly. He has put out a church wide decree to begin preparing for and try to stop accelerating the damage we are doing to our planet. That is about 1000 more impressive then turning off his AC...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Care to provide sources of the data from that chart?

The claim that 90ish% of the climate models are wrong is an invalid one and a case of cherry picking the data to suit one's belief/agenda.

www.skepticalscience.com...

While it is enlightening to see the Pope advocate for the environment, it is disheartening to see so many here to dismiss his message by any means possible.

originally posted by: masqua
It's good to know that the Masonic orders world-wide are not involved in the improvement of humankind, like the current pope.

On local levels were are, there is no international organization.

Thanks for saying the masons aren't world leaders as I've often thought about contacting members over the years. My European relatives have had much to do with various orders and I'd mistakenly thought that they did have somewhat of an influence in global affairs.

Now that I know they don't, it helps make my decision easier.

The last world leader who was a Mason was Gerald Ford.

originally posted by: Entreri06
He just got there and (assuming he is the real deal as he seems) and has millinia of corruption and opulence to unravel.

He has been Pope for over two years, if he had any intention of liquadting the vast, accumulated and in some cases, ill-gotten, wealth of the Vatican he would have done so.

He asked for the world to progressively and responsibly begin moving to renewable energy.

Great. Except nothing they did about it in the Vatican was 'responsible', it cost $600,000,000.

Your analogy about "cutting off his AC" was just silly.

ETA: I just finished reading the encyclical and it specifically mentions that Catholics should turn off their air conditioning. Still feel it is silly?

55. Some countries are gradually making significant progress, developing more effective controls and working to combat corruption. People may well have a growing ecological sensitivity but it has not succeeded in changing their harmful habits of consumption which, rather than decreasing, appear to be growing all the more. A simple example is the increasing use and power of air-conditioning. Source

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
On local levels were are, there is no international organization.

Good to know. Thanks. So the Masonic orders are pretty much just like state governments, focussed locally and not really all that interested in their neighbours welfare. Fences, unlike the common saying goes, do not make good neighbours (imho).

I'm glad some are finally looking at the global 'Big Picture', like the current pope is doing.

originally posted by: masqua
Good to know. Thanks. So the Masonic orders are pretty much just like state governments, focussed locally and not really all that interested in their neighbours welfare.

I think there is some confusion that needs to be cleared up. Each Grand Lodge in the United States (there are 51) has no official charity or sponsorships. Each individual Lodge often has specific ones they support, for example, ours does the local soup kitchen, food pantry, blood bank and the veteran's home.