Pope calls for end to fossil fuels

By calling for the end of fossil fuels, the Pope is calling for the end of involvement in the Middle East. And the impoverishment of those same people. He will be popular with them for sure!

a reply to: 2012newstart

I just have to ask if anyone on here has taken the time to read the document or even ask themselves if it is possible the the pastor of the universal church of Christ might just really take seriously our role to care for this planet. I don't agree with everything this Pope does, but before we pass judgment, maybe, just maybe we should do our part and actually read the document first, and not just the headlines.

a reply to: TheRedneck

$20/hr you say!

Considering the blatantly inaccurate BS you keep trying to pass off as real information here, it looks like whoever is paying for this “teaching” is getting pretty damn ripped off imo.

Everything you’re proclaiming is either an irrelevant deflection or an outright lie. But I appreciate you continuing to try and lecture me on something I do for a living and am now working on my 2nd degree towards.

You’re calling me naïve and then acting like if we use too much solar energy we’re going to steal it from the plants or something:

The total solar energy absorbed by Earth's atmosphere, oceans and land masses is approximately 3,850,000 exajoules (EJ) per year. In 2002, this was more energy in one hour than the world used in one year.

Wiki

In the U.S. all you would need to do is cover the country’s parking lots with 15% efficiency panels to meet the annual energy demands.

Oh right, but then there’s this -

Inverters are notoriously inefficient, ranging from 20-80% efficiency. The larger units tend to be toward the lower end of that range and are also extremely expensive.

This statement is plain ridiculous. Solar inverters operate at extremely high efficiency (>95%), and they tend to get better as they get bigger. I don’t understand how you can even say such absurd things and pretend I’ll believe you know what you’re talking about. Unless you’re just fishing for stars from others here, and hoping people like me won’t fact check this nonsense? All I have to do is pull up a few spec sheets:

Enphase Micro Inverters - 95.7% efficiency
Advanced Energy 500kW – 97% efficiency

Furthermore you’re not even allowed to connect an inverter that can’t meet a minimum power factor of 0.9-0.95. Inverters are very efficient, and their cost is already included in the links I showed you, so your protests are not only horribly inaccurate, but irrelevant anyway.


This is what drives me crazy about these discussions though – sometimes they actually have the potential to be constructive and considerate discussions, but they’re almost always hijacked by some pompous phony vomiting misinformation all over the place and talking down to people.

Then those of us who actually care about denying ignorance have to spend the entire time arguing with you instead and correcting all your ridiculous fallacies and looking like total #holes in the process.

You know what – I’m not interested. I’m here to talk about real solutions not stroke my ego, thanks.

a reply to: goldfox1987

Actually he has one or two chapters dedicated to the Universe, without mentioning by name extraterrestrials. You can interpret as you want to. No I didn't read the 200 page document, and wouldn't be able to do so in near future. It is a good idea the Vatican servants throughout the world, i.e. priests and bishops, instead of doing other empty things, to be told themselves first, and second explain to the people what it all means in more clear terms. Or will he circumvent them, and will bet on those people in the world who would rather listen directly to him, be they atheists. No I am not going to enter into the role of interpreter for free, and I started this thread only because no one started it 6 hours after the official release event broke out.

Now it all depends on the other big powers will they will accept it or not. You need entire industries to go on other wheels and for that you need the agreement of the biggest world producers, USA but also Russia, China, Europe. Is that agreement already obtained in secret? Obviously it is not the pope who invented the clean energy, he is the one who promotes it, knowing for fact it exists from credible enough governmental sources.

Will the pope goes further than that and in the next weeks explains what he said. What is the energy source he envisions as substitute to the carbon fuels? Perhaps he knows some, different from hazardous nuclear energy, and wind energy that cannot suffice to replace the fossil fuels. Not even hydrogen and electric cars are enough. What will replace the massive power plants who run on gas. What will replace all those gas pipelines running thru Europe and Asia that fuel factories as well as homes. Are we talking of massive Tsla towers to draw electricity directly from the atmosphere? Or other exotic zero point energy devices? Still, those have been qualified as sci-fi by most people. May be it is the time to release them. And doing so, wouldn't we inevitably run the question, who gave that tech to us? Now it seems it is not the hot question of the day. But ina long term, it would be even more important than the tech itself.

.
"Without delay" means answers have already been found. OK let they tell them to the people. Or the people will be the last one to know, to be presented with a ready solution regardless of their view/choice. Hope that solution is a good one.

Pope communist at it again. As usual the sheeple media and devout communists/socialists will praise him. He's just another hand picked globalists whore, and this is from a catholic. He's killed what little was left of the church, now he will be just another mouthpiece to brainwash slaves with mentally ill progressive authoritarian propaganda.

Full text of encyclical here w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20150524_enciclica-laudato-si.html

Excerpts regarding fossil fuels

26. Many of those who possess more resources and economic or political power seem mostly to be concerned with masking the problems or concealing their symptoms, simply making efforts to reduce some of the negative impacts of climate change. However, many of these symptoms indicate that such effects will continue to worsen if we continue with current models of production and consumption. There is an urgent need to develop policies so that, in the next few years, the emission of carbon dioxide and other highly polluting gases can be drastically reduced, for example, substituting for fossil fuels and developing sources of renewable energy. Worldwide there is minimal access to clean and renewable energy. There is still a need to develop adequate storage technologies. Some countries have made considerable progress, although it is far from constituting a significant proportion. Investments have also been made in means of production and transportation which consume less energy and require fewer raw materials, as well as in methods of construction and renovating buildings which improve their energy efficiency. But these good practices are still far from widespread.

165. We know that technology based on the use of highly polluting fossil fuels – especially coal, but also oil and, to a lesser degree, gas – needs to be progressively replaced without delay. Until greater progress is made in developing widely accessible sources of renewable energy, it is legitimate to choose the lesser of two evils or to find short-term solutions. But the international community has still not reached adequate agreements about the responsibility for paying the costs of this energy transition. In recent decades, environmental issues have given rise to considerable public debate and have elicited a variety of committed and generous civic responses. Politics and business have been slow to react in a way commensurate with the urgency of the challenges facing our world. Although the post-industrial period may well be remembered as one of the most irresponsible in history, nonetheless there is reason to hope that humanity at the dawn of the twenty-first century will be remembered for having generously shouldered its grave responsibilities.

He doesn't say clearly about the green energy sources themselves, he advocates such to be introduced "over the years". If it will be for so long time, may be the entire scheme of change here and now will be useless. It is more a wish " to hope that humanity at the dawn of the twenty-first century will be remembered for having generously shouldered its grave responsibilities."

And what if it doesn't? The encyclical brings many more questions than giving clear cut answers.

If he speaks in two sections of the Universe, (I am not going to quote them), why didn't he mention theoretically of the "beings in the universe" as he already DID in a homily? We are left to wonder by ourselves, and to debate it endlessly. Good, but the time of personal investigation of philosophy, even sci-fi, have passed. We don't have a time for that anymore. Personally, as well as society. We need something more concrete than that. Exactly because of all reasons stated in the otherwise brilliant encyclical, we need something more real to be presented without any delay. May be the pope still have what to say more, or may be that is going to be said by some politician. And shown in action. Be it a green power plant, etc.

What if the pope's good intentions ultimately fail to find response among those who hold the key to innovation? To count on activists to spread the news to unaware humanity, is outdated. Somewhere in those mass control equations should find place the tiredness of millions who ALREADY spend decades of their lives, especially after the end of the Cold War, working in one or another way for betterment, spiritual, physical, scientific or other. The betterment did not occur as a whole, neither it did in the Ecology. Those people were not awarded, thanked or promoted, rather left aside as strange, unrealistic and ethereal. What will the pope count on to promote his agenda now? That should be done in Year 2000 and it wasn't done.

Is there a plan B where those good words fail to materialize (as happened until now always). Is there a plan B on a planet where we will see increased pollution, coupled with increased tensions for resources and other motivation? What is provided for humanity, and for those part of it that makes most of the efforts, in case those efforts fail? Or they will be recompensed by God in the afterlife. That is calming thought on personal level, but it doesn't actually provide tool to continue the above efforts of betterment, generation after generation. At one point the young people will stop listening and will switch on their smart phones with unlimited capabilities for the limited human brain. The old prayer warriors are gone or tired to the point not to see any meaning of innovation here on earth.

In so presented idealistic picture of the pope and his collaborators, I am afraid he wouldn't find the necessary support to make it true. Let I be wrong, and let we see by September new energy sources, new transportation means (antigravity) and new communications, as the pope barely mentioned, with the larger Universe. I want to be optimist but will remain skeptical until the first proven fact: a green power plant, a new medicine to kill the cancer, or a new real contact with the reality beyond earth. If that doesn't happen in reasonable time frame, not of 2 more years as the pope implies, but in 2 more months, I'd rather think of plan B as the real case scenario. Good wishes are not enough. Action is needed and such action is not seen by now.

The lack of proper reward of any good initiative being undertaken on earth, makes it senseless efforts that near sacrificial mode of older ages. If we will have yet another promise of the bright future, promise already given by St John Paul II after the fall of Communism, and again in year 2000 celebrations, then why to believe and spend more years on it? Something more. The Universe the pope talks about without specifying that Universe consists of other planets and beings, the Universe may offer a different solution for embattled planet earth. Let it be the pope's solution and the moral leap of the leaders of humanity, who tomorrow will decide for the priorities the pope mentioned. And what if it simply doesn't materialize, as didn't materialize similar beautiful words before? Indeed, until now the popes didn't talk so explicitly of environmental problems, but they talked anyway.

The other solution of the Universe (to stick to the terminology chosen by Francis) may envision RESCUE from Planet Earth to secure location, until the planet is fit again for normal life. I will not enter into end time terminology and it needn't be end times. But if you have some 25,000 nukes with the possibility of new more powerful weapons to exist, and people ready to use them, (not necessarily the big powers themselves), you can get a pretty ugly picture only in hours. Mega volcanoes that are on the brink. Such scenarios are not to be excluded. The plan of the pope however good, may not work. Miracle is needed to happen.

I reached the end of the allowed signs in one post...

So I am not against the good novelty initiative of pope Francis. Perhaps he has his supporters among hi rank heads of state and other influential people, and he knows that is possible to be done.

But I am afraid the time frame and pace, both the one he speaks of and the one seen in the human development of the above spoken tech, is not enough. If we wait two more years, after we waited practically 26 after the end of Cold War, nothing good will come.

The danger of abrupt end of the current disastrous status quo (both ecological, economic, etc) will make all the above good words to remain the last attempt of the pope to save the desperate situation. As we have examples of popes before/during WW1 and WW2. It is not as granted that the humanity will make it peacefully, and without planetary disaster (let say Yellowstone, or solar burst).

The pope speaks as if he has not 2 but 20 years of a transition that in fact was intended by John Paul II but never materialized. I don't think we have that time. I think other solution will be given, different from the evolutionary peaceful transition of human society to a new level.

That other solution could be given only from above. And it will be intended to save and reward all those unknown people who spent their entire lives, efforts and expectations, working for a better future here on earth, and failed for reasons not of personal character. Entire nations spent their generations' efforts for a better future that never came. Be it political, or on religious foundation such as it is in Latin America, pope's own continent. 500 years Christianity after Columbus brought no fruit as of today!

It was meant to fail. Because the green tech and the Universe communications could and should be released in 1960 and they were not. Yes I mean Fatima.

The pope's proposal if happens will be a miracle that frankly I do not expect to happen. Not because the pope doesn't have the good will. But because it didn't happen until now, with equal good will in the years of even bigger enthusiasm among the peoples' masses for change. Now the people are exhausted, both in West and East, North and South. They merely survive thru endless economic crisis, and wait for political miracles in order to make the ends meet. And that is inside Europe, both West and East. Only drastic measures, such as I don't see them happen, could make the things better to the extend spoken by popes.

If the pope's plan succeeds, if so many other good plans succeed, it would practically mean "DISCLOSURE HERE AND NOW". Plus, the willing of the entire humanity and its leaders not to implement nuclear or other disastrous weapons. Plus, the absence of planetary cataclysm th eone many expected to happen in 2012. And that is already beyond our control. Because if there is a space wave of any nature, (supernova, galactic, other) we will not know until it is already here. Unless informed in advance by ET.

The pope doesn't talk about that. He talks as if the Earth has unlimited years of future, only if we change to more humane and more ecological means of managing God's creation. That contradicts what we get as insider info over abundantly on internet. And what is set as prophecies among Catholic canonized seers. Why not to speak about that and to offer ESCAPE ROUTE for Humanity. If the planet will be anyway "doomed" after 10,20 more years, why to make any effort now to "save it", and not to think how MORE PEOPLE to be saved out of the planet, or inside the planet? All that I've read in the last decades as both prophecy and secular prognosis, leads me to that conclusion, and not to conclusion of a Bright future on Earth. I do not rule it out, but it will equal miracle, with direct involvement of Extraterrestrials to make it possible. Tesla tech wouldn't be sufficient enough to make that miracle happen. Neither the good will of the majority of 7 bln people. It just DOESN'T HAPPEN no matter what.

May be I misunderstood him. After all I didn't read thru all the 200 pages. But I think the bigger part is still untold of, even in those large 200 pages.

I wish everything good to the pope's new proposal, to be accepted widely in the UN, US congress, Russia, China, and we start living a new era here on earth. To be able to prepare a better welcome of Jesus Christ when He will finally come at the end of ages, may be after hundreds more years. May be that is good as conclusion of my long posts.

It is wrong to assume Communism fell in 1989 in East Europe and and 1990s in USSR. The Communism expectations of bright future were long questioned for decades before that. Including in state approved popular culture, such as the quite old song "We are little children" from a popular movie about the "perfect" robotized kid. Now it is performed on modern scene 2011.


Part of the lyrics:

allforchildren.ru...

To become man, they say, he should
Marching to keep up with century.
And we do not want to march,
We want to walk (for pleasure)!

Something similar I see now. After so long time passed on expectations and no few efforts, prayers and sacrifices, after we are on the brink of survival for quite some time, now the Vatican comes up with indeed honorable proposal to start anew something that hasn't been done for so long because of unknown reasons. What gives hope to believe it will make it THIS TIME?


Is there any apocalyptic event that the Vatican knows about, including of old manuscripts such as Sitchin's translations? And if Yes, what are we supposed to do to be saved? To get rid of oil is good, but may be not good enough. May be that is just the first chapter of the new Catholic doctrine that should envision ultimately the salvation of the people, on this or on another planet. I wonder why the pope wasn't more explicit about that, while speaking of the Universe created by God. Was he stopped by someone to write more, even only to repeat what he already said in homilies of "beings of the Universe" and "baptizing Martians"? We need to know more than that, for the sake of our own survival. Not even of the planet, but of the human race. We don't need more doctrines to march against the time, we need to have good life now, and for the future generations. If we have to pack our bags to head underground, as some say, or to expect rescue spaceships, as others say, why aren't we told that? Because of worldwide panic that will follow? How long will we have forewarning? One month or less? And if there are extraterrestrials, as Medvedev and others clearly said, why aren't we introduced officially to their existence, and supposedly higher moral standards and technology?

If the current Vatican proposal is a step in that direction, I congratulate it. Only let it be not too little too late. The fanfares and media clout were not exactly what we needed. We need more facts in first place, before being given more doctrine. We all know the fossil fuel is bad, the lesser evil, etc. What is it to be offered instead? Where is the exit way, if there is a such on the surface of this planet AT ALL? 26 years after communism were pretty much enough for such exit way to be given, it was not. I want to know my kids will have better life, or will have life at all. Not just the next talk of theological nature, that we had them enough in th e recent past. Where is the Civilization of Love that St John Paul 2 talked so tirelessly about?

Let imagine the Contact will happen soon after September session of the UN. Actually that is the only possibility in which the current proposal of the Vatican will succeed. If something doesn't happen meanwhile. Such as preemptive contact to save what could be saved from earth.

The pope called himself Fatima pope, however he didn't release all secret texts. Indeed, a book was allowed to surface of stories of Sr Lucia, with vision of a pole shift. Is it a part of the so secretive Fatima message? And if that is known to happen not to far in the future, why not more efforts to be spent on that topic? Recently the pope disregarded another apparition with pending approval, that of Medjugorje. I will not enter into details that belong to another thread.

The common denominator is, is Vatican fully aware of impending events to befall the Earth, from both contemporary prophecies and ancient books not released or not canonized? Does Vatican have secret contacts with particular ET races? And if the answers are Yes on one or more of these questions of utmost importance, isn't it the current encyclical just a piece of brilliant wording meant not to say but to postpone the release of these things? I want to believe in contrary. But we have no facts on the table, to make the puzzle. Because frankly, if I know after 12 months I am going to either die in megatsunami/ quakes, or be saved underground, or be lifted up in space, my entire life and efforts to be made will be in a different direction than what it is today. I will fight for salvation of more people around me, not less. Perhaps someone wants to avoid that, excusing themselves with panic among population. "The ones who die first know last", yes? You don't want to panic population that is destined to be left behind in whatever cataclysm. And they already "told the truth" by a number of movies. So we could die with clear conscience we were told in advance. Including by Fatima pole shift.

Instead, until now we could have had official ET contacts, and the bigger picture to be presented understandable to everyone around the world. Choice could and should be given to humanity and each individual, whether they want to stay ,let say underground, with certain risks, or they would prefer the off-planet option. May be more people would have chosen to go underground.

Not having that, we have CERN working at something very few people understand including among the super-physicists themselves. We have talks of secret space fleets and even bases off planet (Moon, Mars, Ceres). We have every leak except the one: how we get saved.

If Vatican means to leave behind that document as the final absolve of its own idleness during all those decades after 1960, it won't work like that. More is needed, and needed soon. 2015, 15 years into the new century, we should have been 15 years into a fruitful space contact that will bring hope, not desperation before unavoidable catastrophe "because God wants so". The Biblical Flood as punishment to be repeated? Noah told everyone, and probably other Arks could have been built, or spaceships /underground could have saved more people. The Bible doesn't talk about that, it talks only about Noah first and foremost. We are not living 5000 years ago int he time of Noah We live in Universe of supercommunications as the pope said. I wonder did he mean the communications with other planets and civilizations as well. And even if he did, as he mentioned "beings" and "martians" already. What makes the difference? We have to wonder until the last moment of impeding decision under stress? Is it all about that? Where is the free will and conscience then? We are not told the truth, we are denied the big picture starting from the Original sin and the Flood, and we intentionally are kept in dark and without enough money until the final moment. That won't be forgotten or forgiven by those who survive.

I don;t want to sound even more apocalyptic than that. I hope soon we will see new Disclosure steps, much more real than this one. No need of months waiting of something that cannot be eaten so easily, as the hi-style 200 page document who is good for academicians but not good to find your own salvation seat in it.

originally posted by: Temudjin
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

There is always the other option, nuclear holocaust. Which i still vote for

What a disgusting mindset you have.
Millions deas and you want it.
If it happens I want to see your face when you are not saved.

Since when have people listened to religious leaders in the modern era???


NVM... Of course, the answer is "when it is convenient".


I am not even religious and I know that. The same thing is done with scripture so I am just pointing out the obvious.

Noah built the Ark with Oil.

Genesis 6:14 "So make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch [Bitumen, or crude oil] inside and out.

Obviously God knew fossil fuel has value, as with everything it is a matter of using resources responsibly. If we eliminate gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, and natural gas as a mechanism for propelling our vehicles then what is left over is the 30% of refined oil that creates plastics etc. Your phone, your television, medicine, toys, food containers, major components of your car, your refrigerator, your microwave, everything you use is oil. I don't think most people think about that!!!!!

a reply to: TheChrome

Bioplastic

Just saying.


Anyways, this seems to be focused on burning fossil fuels and not about plastics as it is tied to climate change and C02 output otherwise I think the pope would be making statements about the Ocean garbage patches.

a reply to: grimpachi

What we must understand, is that we all take responsibility for doing our part for the environment. The ultimate solution however is not by us taking a position in politics, but the understanding that God will be the one who corrects these things.

Revelations 11:18 "The time has come for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great---and FOR DESTROYING THOSE WHO DESTROY THE EARTH.

Galavanting around with world leaders and pandering to politics fails to recognize the biblical significance of such things.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Well... he actually does NOT live in the Papal apartment. He lives in a small suite in the guesthouse. He refused to move into the apartment because he wanted to live with people. He also does not use the official "Popemobile" and drives a 30-year-old Renault.

I have to give him credit for trying to keep the humble life that he had before becoming Pope.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Look up Taylor Wilson.

We have a very good alternative to oil. Its just not politically supported.


en.wikipedia.org...

Pebble bed reactors
molten salt reactors

But they all have that dirty word "reactor".

And yes I have have, and would live next to one.

Less accidents with them then any other power source yet made.

I am not sure how all of this works, but it seems plausible to me that the geopolitical connections to oil and the so-called military industrial complex are "too connected to fail" - the Frankenstein run amok. It isn't even necessarily conspiracy. How does it stop? Especially if it was ascertained at a specific time to just let it all collapse, and all the people reaping the benefits of this geopolitical money, power and control decided to build a network of underground bunkers and watch the rest of humanity and the planet die.

I don't know... maybe there is a way to transition. ET contact?!

originally posted by: [post=19465948]Temudjin[/post
There is always the other option, nuclear holocaust. Which i still vote for

Great! Start with yourself. BestBuy has microwaves on sale, grab one.

originally posted by: JDmOKI
Sounds like you're making this personal because the pope happens to be a Christian leader.

Because he is a hypocritical religious leader (I think that may be redundant). If he was so keen on reducing a massive carbon footprint he would move to a smaller residence.

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Except it seems that leftist religious wackadoodles are totally cool for some reason.

You smell the hypocrisy too?

I like the pope because he looks like Jim Bowen from bullseye.
Super smashing great!