Pope calls for end to fossil fuels

originally posted by: Blaine91555
Not at all what I meant.

I know, I was just funning with you.

Sorta.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
Also, it is better to be a master of but one thing...

It seems to be baiting.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I do, but not as rapidly as some may overstate

Interesting. Based on what?

That is $72,000 per person to make the Vatican the most 'renewable'.

One more time: is that $72,000 per person per year?

a reply to: Blaine91555

My first thought is why is this Pope so political and what is the end game. What's more important to him, the church or his political ideology. It does get him in the news a lot, so maybe that's what he likes.

He needs to get back to helping the needy and seeing to it the church is not wasting money on a lavish lifestyle for the Pontiff and his entourage that could be buying food and shelter for those in need.

Blaine, don't you think that's a little harsh? He's a good man, he does all those things, certainly the most wonderful Pope in my lifetime....... he administers to the poor almost constantly, which is why he selected "Francis", as per St. Francis of Assisi.

Don't you think we ALL need to become involved with what's going on with the welfare of our planet? Why judge him so harshly?

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
Interesting. Based on what?

Based on Manbearpig's own bulls*** claims.

One more time: is that $72,000 per person per year?

Sorry, one time outlay.

ETA: I made a math error, it is $720,000 per person. May home calculator only allows 8 digits and I forgot to add a zero.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: anton74
Just like the non-religious that think the main issues in our country are things like the war on women, abortion, and gay right instead of the economy? Stupidity knows no boundaries.

Personal/Civil Rights are just as important, maybe even more so, than the economy.

What good is money if you are oppressed?

You're right! Lets drop what we are doing and protect those.

Do you see what I just did there?

originally posted by: anton74
You're right! Lets drop what we are doing and protect those.

Do you see what I just did there?

Yeah, but who said we cannot do all of them?

a reply to: anton74

Are you familiar with the idea of multitasking?

It is predicated upon the central concept, of doing more than one thing, at one time. For example, retaining and protecting and even improving civil liberties, WHILE retaining and strengthening an economy. It is what governments are always supposed to do, and universally fail to achieve in anything like an acceptable manner.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
It is what governments are always supposed to do, and universally fail to achieve in anything like an acceptable manner.

Government is only good at one thing and one thing only, growing itself.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: anton74
You're right! Lets drop what we are doing and protect those.

Do you see what I just did there?

Yeah, but who said we cannot do all of them?

Why bother? As long as the outcome is what I want, it doesn't matter. Look at where this is going, you can substitute anything for the Pope and Christianity. Appealing to peoples beliefs and fears is the way to win an election.

originally posted by: anton74
Why bother? As long as the outcome is what I want, it doesn't matter. Look at where this is going, you can substitute anything for the Pope and Christianity. Appealing to peoples beliefs and fears is the way to win an election.

Except in the Pope's case he is talking out of his ass since he has zero plans to move to a much smaller footprint. Better the 'flock' does this than him. Not that I am some superhero civil rights crusader but I am personally involved with some issues and lend my support when time permits.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: anton74

Are you familiar with the idea of multitasking?

It is predicated upon the central concept, of doing more than one thing, at one time. For example, retaining and protecting and even improving civil liberties, WHILE retaining and strengthening an economy. It is what governments are always supposed to do, and universally fail to achieve in anything like an acceptable manner.

Exactly, when is the last time a major election was won based on brutal honesty?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

You and I both know that all too well, and the signs of it are all over the place, plain as the noses on Mt Rushmore, or the peaks of the Palace of Westminster.

However, I believe that many things can come of a positive mental attitude, and so I choose to approach things as if what we are lead to believe about the idea of government is accurate, that being that government is there to represent and administrate on behalf of the people, to ensure the protection of the citizenry from war being bought against them, from criminal elements in their midst, and from oppression by any group or organisation in the land.

I feel that approaching things from this direction allows me to see the wood for the trees, without being overly negative about the outlook for the future. I do not think it is unreasonable to have hope, since I still have breath in my lungs.

originally posted by: anton74

Exactly, when is the last time a major election was won based on brutal honesty?

I will throw the first Lincoln term out there as everyone knew what the outcome would be if he won. There may be more after that but I would need to go through them and review the key issues and platforms.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I am with you my well lubricated friend. Change starts on the ground floor and that is where I reside.

a reply to: anton74

I do not think that such a thing has ever occurred.

Politics is not a game oft played by honest men. Honest men do not see it as a game at all, and thusly, they always loose in the halls of power. It is when there is no political process to speak of, that honesty wins out.

originally posted by: network dude
I think a bit more is missing than willpower. I'd change today to whatever method would make my car go. Hell, I'd even buy a new car if it could be run on something other than gas and get me all the places I need to go. It's not there yet. It's not even close. If you can show me what you use to travel over 250 miles a day, and not use gas, I am on board!

Renewable energy is like the metric system. It needs to be here, needed to be here 30 years ago, but, WE.....FEAR.....CHANGE. You need to have an answer BEFORE you post the question. I don't like it either, but you have the choice to reside in Utopia, or that nasty place we like to call "the real world". Again, sorry.

But Kudos for fighting the good fight. You have tenacity.

I sincerely hope you don't drive 250 miles a day lol.

Anyway, fair enough, but I think some people are also taking this too personally. Like the Pope is not demanding everyone make all these drastic changes in their everyday lives or they're all going to hell.

The real big stuff has to happen systemically - that's on the major players: corporations, governments, etc to do the right thing. But it's also on us to make it known that's what we want. We may not have a lot of power individually, but we do collectively - as consumers, as voters, when we get on the same page that is.

When you do little things - eat less meat, buy more locally grown food, use ethical products, public transit, whatever...it may not seem like a big deal, but it starts to have huge impacts when everyone does it. A lot of people tend to lack the willpower to get the ball rolling though because they think their actions are so insignificant. These things often explode when they reach a critical mass however.

Right now in my home town there's a huge revolution happening in bike lanes for example. For years a few loud annoying hippies were screaming about it, but there was much political resistance because taking away car lanes would apparently create more traffic. Until the city finally lay down a few test lanes. Then more and more people started using them, so they lay down a few more, then more people started realizing they can actually get to work faster this way and joined in. Then those people not driving anymore cleared up traffic and that improved as well. Now bike lanes are going in everywhere because they work for both cyclists and drivers.

So the main point is don't think you're powerless either. I know "TPTB" make us feel that way, and that's because they want it that way. But ultimately we all still need to be the change we want to see in the world.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: anton74
Why bother? As long as the outcome is what I want, it doesn't matter. Look at where this is going, you can substitute anything for the Pope and Christianity. Appealing to peoples beliefs and fears is the way to win an election.

Except in the Pope's case he is talking out of his ass since he has zero plans to move to a much smaller footprint. Better the 'flock' does this than him. Not that I am some superhero civil rights crusader but I am personally involved with some issues and lend my support when time permits.

That is good and I respect that. What they do is sell fear, just like everyone else.

If you stood in the homeopathic isle at Whole Foods and asked people what they thought of Christianity, how many do you think would laugh about it as they picked up their magic remedy?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I might be willing to spot you an FDR election.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: mc_squared

I'd agree that is going on. On both sides though which really makes it hard, so I guess we actually agree for the most part. Imagine that, we talk and find out we are not that far apart. If only business and government could do the same.

There is definitely a lot of noise. That's a huge part of the problem - because that's all the people derailing these issues need, is noise. But it's amazing how much we can cut through that noise sometimes just by actually listening to each other