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9 dead in shooting at South Carolina church Senator Clementa Pinckney killed

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posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 08:44 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Power_Semi

We don't "feel" that it's a right.

It IS a right.

What civilized person feels the need to slate an entire group of people, the vast overwhelming majority of whom they have never and will never meet? And feels the need to mindlessly attack their intellect and spew rhetoric based off one variable out of a person's entire being?

Asked and answered.


Yes it IS a right, but it's an outdated one that needs to be addressed.

If you have a right to have access to an automated killing machine then who are the most likely people to buy it?

The people who want to kill other people, or at least don't mind killing other people to conduct their criminal enterprise, or the law abiding "wouldn't hurt a fly" type people who don't wish malice on anyone?

Think about people who are stressed, they've lost their job, found out their partner is cheating on them, are angry at something else - do you want to bump their car or somehow upset them, or meet them when they've had some beers when they are carrying a gun?

If you think that you and everyone else being able to carry a gun will reduce the instances of shootings then you're mad as a bag of rats.




posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 08:44 AM
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originally posted by: Power_Semi

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
And as usual you guys will bury your heads in the sand and deny that the US has a massive gun problme.

Very sad.


Problem is not one of those poor victims was carrying because a church is supposed to be a safe haven. If someone had a CCW permit, they could've have nipped the situation in the bud before nine people were shot and killed. Yes, that is a massive gun problem where only the crazies are the ones shooting people.


Or the one with CcW could have been shot first before he/she realised.

Not a fan of strict gun control but let's be real guns are not a magic fix all solution.



I'm not saying guns are a "magic fix all solution". But maybe the amount of victims could've been minimized if the perp would've been taken out after say, the second innocent victim.


That's like saying "someone infected the church congregation with ebola and they died - if only we'd all had ebola then maybe someone would have infected him first and he'd have died before he infected and killed the others".

More of the thing that is causing a problem does not solve the problem, it makes it worse.

Only in America is such stupidity seen and promoted as rational thought.


I disagree. Thinking that disarming the law abiding would make them safer is irrational and clearly demonstrated in this case. He reloaded FIVE TIMES. Only when one is confronting helpless, disarmed, and trapped people can one have the leisure to reload time and time again while killing.



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 08:47 AM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: AmericanZombie

Race baiting would be gunning down nine people in hopes of starting a race war.



You are right.
edit on 19-6-2015 by AmericanZombie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 08:47 AM
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a reply to: Power_Semi

You do understand that the overwhelming majority of gun owners (again, the ones you haven't met) haven't murdered anybody right?

You do understand that people who want to murder somebody will do so however they can, right?

Which is why convicts use things like shoelaces and bedsheets to kill other convicts in prison, where even the guards don't have easy access to firearms, much less the "population."

You do understand that, right?

ETA - it would be super cool if you could post at least ONE comment that doesn't contain an ad hominem attack. Give it a try.

But you aren't really interested in dialogue, are you? Nothing "the other side" has to say matters one bit. You're interested in diatribe and conversion, not dialogue.
edit on 19-6-2015 by Shamrock6 because: ETA

edit on 19-6-2015 by Shamrock6 because: Typo



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 08:51 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Power_Semi

You do understand that the overwhelming majority of gun owners (again, the ones you haven't met) haven't murdered anybody right?

You do understand that people who want to murder somebody will do so however they can, right?

Which is why convicts use things like shoelaces and bedsheets to kill other convicts in prison, where even the guards don't have easy access to firearms, much less the "population."

You do understand that, right?


It's far harder for a skinny young white boy to wander into a church and murder 9 people including some bigger and stronger black dudes with a pen knife than it is for him to walk in with a killing machine - made solely for the purpose of killing - and shoot them all dead.

And hey, if you feel that way then let everyone carry around a pen knife then it's the same level playing field - it's just harder for the nutter to kill so many people.

Really, I can't fathom how a supposedly developed country can promote rights of ownership of a killing machine over the rights of the lives of others.

You should all be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 08:53 AM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

So how often does a police officer get murdered well protecting the streets with a shoelace or bed sheeting?



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 08:53 AM
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a reply to: Shamrock6
No matter what, notice how many times this thread comes back to gun control, there is a clear agenda for gun control.



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 08:54 AM
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a reply to: Power_Semi

So the grand summation to your argument against guns is "well if they have knives then they can't kill as many people."

Well thank god they just killed LESS people. I mean, the nutter only managed to stab three people to death. Thank god it wasn't nine. Three murders is WAY better.

And I see that no, you in fact cannot post anything without making it a personal attack.

Oh well.



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 08:54 AM
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a reply to: Subaeruginosa

How does an orange compare to an apple?



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 08:54 AM
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originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
And as usual you guys will bury your heads in the sand and deny that the US has a massive gun problme.

Very sad.


Problem is not one of those poor victims was carrying because a church is supposed to be a safe haven. If someone had a CCW permit, they could've have nipped the situation in the bud before nine people were shot and killed. Yes, that is a massive gun problem where only the crazies are the ones shooting people.


Or the one with CcW could have been shot first before he/she realised.

Not a fan of strict gun control but let's be real guns are not a magic fix all solution.



I'm not saying guns are a "magic fix all solution". But maybe the amount of victims could've been minimized if the perp would've been taken out after say, the second innocent victim.


DO NOT BRING GUNS TO CHURCH PERIOD


Maybe they should put a sign out front saying that? Or, better yet, make it illegal to take your weapon into a church...or school. That will stop it all.....NOT. I still cannot believe people live in such a fantasy world of denial that a sign or law will stop a determined person, intent on killing, from doing just that.

You live in your fantasy world, and I will wish you never are confronted with a real-world violent criminal. If you do, you will most likely become dead very quickly. After all, someone in this particular instance tried talking the guy down from his killing spree. That did not work so well, and that person is now also dead...shot by the killer.


edit on 6/19/2015 by Krakatoa because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: Krakatoa

Breaking news: even a CCW permit holder can't carry, legally, into a church.

So it being extra, extra illegal for him to bring a gun in there totally worked!



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 08:56 AM
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originally posted by: humanityrising
Really hope this isn't spun into a racial issue...that is unless they actually find KKK paraphernalia in his house or something...


No, why would they? White guy goes into all black church and opens fire.....Who would claim this to be a racial issue?



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 08:57 AM
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originally posted by: Power_Semi

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Power_Semi

We don't "feel" that it's a right.

It IS a right.

What civilized person feels the need to slate an entire group of people, the vast overwhelming majority of whom they have never and will never meet? And feels the need to mindlessly attack their intellect and spew rhetoric based off one variable out of a person's entire being?

Asked and answered.


Yes it IS a right, but it's an outdated one that needs to be addressed.

If you have a right to have access to an automated killing machine then who are the most likely people to buy it?

The people who want to kill other people, or at least don't mind killing other people to conduct their criminal enterprise, or the law abiding "wouldn't hurt a fly" type people who don't wish malice on anyone?

Think about people who are stressed, they've lost their job, found out their partner is cheating on them, are angry at something else - do you want to bump their car or somehow upset them, or meet them when they've had some beers when they are carrying a gun?

If you think that you and everyone else being able to carry a gun will reduce the instances of shootings then you're mad as a bag of rats.


If you bump a police officer's car you're more likely to get shot in the face than you would from a regular concealed carry citizen. With the police armed to the teeth, criminals that can and will buy weapons, also armed to the teeth, ISIS, you'd pretty much be a complete non-smartperson not to have a weapon in this day and age. I mean, get real. We live in a bat-# crazy society that bans plants, think about how ridiculous that is, then we have momos that want to literally ban weapons and only allow a proven group of badged nuts to carry them.

Four years ago everyone was scared of chips in vaccines, today everyone's scared of measles and practically begging for it.

People are crazy and vastly vastly dumb.
edit on 19-6-2015 by Flesh699 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

It's too late to remove guns from our society. But I really dislike the notion of increasing where people carry them... the notion that somehow makes us safer is just as stupid as trying to outlaw them and entirely ignores dealing with the root causes of violence ie... poverty, racial, religious and ideological differences, lack of quality mental health care and a manufactured drug war to top the list.

Too many knee jerk reactions on both sides of this debate. But it does need to be talked about. We can't let the "well if only someone inside that Church had been armed" and the "well just outlaw guns" people control the conversation.



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 09:00 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Power_Semi

So the grand summation to your argument against guns is "well if they have knives then they can't kill as many people."

Well thank god they just killed LESS people. I mean, the nutter only managed to stab three people to death. Thank god it wasn't nine. Three murders is WAY better.

And I see that no, you in fact cannot post anything without making it a personal attack.

Oh well.


No,
you're having a laugh - first of all the families of the other 6 dead people will not feel that way, and thank God you're not one of them or you'd take your guns, and as Mandela put it "throw them in the sea", and secondly he wouldn't have managed to kill more than 1 person - if one person at all - if he'd had a knife, he couldn't stand at the far end of a room and gun them down, he'd have had to get up close and personal, and he'd have then been beaten to a pulp in 5 seconds.

Also of course if he knows he has to get up close and physically plunge a knife through flesh and bone then he's going to think twice about doing it in the first place - the real fact is this:

Guns are for COWARDS.

Can't face the real world - get a gun;

Can't rationally debate with someone elses point of view - get a bun;

Feel threatened by other people - get a gun;

Then leave the threat of immediate and deadly violence hanging over them so that they comply with what you want - that makes a REAL man.

The threat of violence = democracy in the USA = you're all living a big fat lie.



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 09:00 AM
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Denials and guns.



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 09:02 AM
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originally posted by: Power_Semi

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Power_Semi

You do understand that the overwhelming majority of gun owners (again, the ones you haven't met) haven't murdered anybody right?

You do understand that people who want to murder somebody will do so however they can, right?

Which is why convicts use things like shoelaces and bedsheets to kill other convicts in prison, where even the guards don't have easy access to firearms, much less the "population."

You do understand that, right?


It's far harder for a skinny young white boy to wander into a church and murder 9 people including some bigger and stronger black dudes with a pen knife than it is for him to walk in with a killing machine - made solely for the purpose of killing - and shoot them all dead.

And hey, if you feel that way then let everyone carry around a pen knife then it's the same level playing field - it's just harder for the nutter to kill so many people.

Really, I can't fathom how a supposedly developed country can promote rights of ownership of a killing machine over the rights of the lives of others.

You should all be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.


Actually, if one has disarmed and helpless people who are trapped and either willing and/or unable to defend themselves, he certainly could have killed them with a knife.

I can't fathom how a supposedly developed country would want to make it's honest citizens even more helpless.

Simply owning something does not infringe upon anyone else's right to anything.



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 09:03 AM
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originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: Shamrock6

So how often does a police officer get murdered well protecting the streets with a shoelace or bed sheeting?


Wait--i thought we were supposed to hate the police.



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 09:03 AM
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If guns are to be outlawed then they must take away the cops and militaries weapons also, because if guns are outlawed no would have them (in a perfect world), but we live in the real world, outlawing guns would just make everyday good citizens criminals by default.

What is wrong with people?



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 09:03 AM
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originally posted by: AmericanZombie
a reply to: Shamrock6
No matter what, notice how many times this thread comes back to gun control, there is a clear agenda for gun control.



Of course. "Never let a crisis go to waste."



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