Hallo Spaceboy – Exploring the Era of the ‘Contactees’

a reply to: mirageman

You've been around a while now DPK. What about having a bash at a thread yourself?

There are a few cases like Madagascar I thought about doing, I get so easily distracted going down so many rabbit holes.

Back on your thread... Did you see the Hangar1 episode on Star People? MUFON (or the history channel, hard to say whose running this show..) is trying to claim there is a more open relationship between aliens and indians. I see Amazon also has a few books that cover this aspect of it if you search for "star people". On a far tangent, indian culture also has a more open view of Big Foot, Les Stroud has mentioned this a few times in his big foot episodes, that Big Foot is just a given.

a reply to: Kandinsky

its very hard to believe in more than a handful of crashes unless there is something truly unique about the way our poles work compared to other planets..but extremely doubtful imo.

I guess one could suppose someone travelling about in what would be considered an economy ufo( like BW beetle) where it was more prone to failures (Virgin Galactic...), or perhaps not properly maintained.

Hopefully I can get through the tape tomorrow, I wouldnt be surprised by some false info though, Stringfield often discusses this point. Heres a quote from Kevin Randle on Stringfield.

Len published all the information he had on a case, his thinking being that it might provide the solution that someone else wanted. He often commented about the reliability of the information but didn't suppress it. As I tried to point out, with the Del Rio case, which he "reopened" with his 1978 paper, he then printed the problems with it in one of his status reports, telling us that it was not reliable. I applaud Len for his willingness to share all the information.

Certainly makes it tougher reading though, as one tries to determine the reliable information(if any Im sure you are thinking!). And I agree, it is nothing compared to a mass daylight sighting like Madagascar in 54 in terms of evidence. Once in the believer camp though, its interesting to try and figure out some of the behind the scenes detail.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

If we consider the saucer crashes as real occurrences, they'd be more like lifeboats compared to a ship or fighters compared to aircraft carriers. There's a popular idea that, say, a 30ft saucer has travelled through interstellar space like a car goes to the mall on the outskirts of town. Instead, wouldn't it be more realistic to imagine a larger vessel carrying the saucers that would then be used for travel in atmospheres?

There's a preponderance of radial symmetry and they have aerodynamic features that would suggest designs for efficient travel within thick atmospheres like ours.

If that was the case, would a crash result in a shrug and a 'whoops,' by those in the 'mothership?' Let's say you go on holiday and hire a scooter? If you crashed there would be emergency responders, clear-up teams and communications between you and loved ones. If a occupied/unmanned saucer crashed, it'd be the equivalent of leaving behind an SR-71 in Cold War Russia.

I remember discussing the idea of Trojan Horses with a cool member of Paracast years ago. That's the only scenario that makes sense of saucer crashes in my eyes. Logically, it just seems highly unlikely that a speculated alien, secretive high-technology would be so blasé about losing assets, revealing technology and exposing their existence in one fell swoop. Not to mention the alleged bodies that must number (according to lore) in their low thirties by now. Aside from the Trojan scenario, they seem to be fictional narratives and the reasons behind them might not always be due to Willingham characters.

As an aside, Willingham was once used as best evidence by NICAP in the 1970s. This shows that even 'credible' cases can actually be the creation of hoaxers like him.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Go on! Do that the Madagascar thread! I know very little about that case so will certainly be interested.

All you have to do is:

1) Research the Topic - Check out 4 or 5 sources on the subject and limit yourself to that. Otherwise you'll never get your head out of the rabbit hole! Plus use a word processor program to write everything up before you even venture onto ATS. Then you can do a copy and paste to ATS once you are ready.
2) Open your post with a paragraph or two on what you will be covering. (A quote often helps but is not necessary).
3) Content - Add the main context of the story.
4) Wrap Up - Add your conclusion.

I know you are adept at adding video etc. There is a full guide to formatting as well A Guide to BBCode on ATS which is a bit out of date in parts. But a lot of it is still relevant.

That Star People Hangar 1 is another topic you could easily look into as well for a thread. I don't know much about the Native American's encounters and I did enjoy that episode. It was one that I hadn't seen before.

Bigfoot being 'a given' in Native American culture is also an interesting one. The links with the leylines and strange, orbs and lights is something also reported across the Atlantic. People even claim to have seen weird creatures here in Britain (Bigfoot included!)

Bigfoot in England

There is also an interesting tale from a tank crew training on Salisbury plain in Wiltshire (which is an area of the country close to Stonehenge)

George Price reported...something which had lived in his mind, as clear as day, for eight years. It happened in September 2002, when he was serving in the Army.

He wrote: “We were on exercises on Salisbury Plain. I was a commander in the turret of our tank, and we were advancing to contact our warriors. I was scanning the landscape when I turned to my 5 o’clock and looked right at a large, ape-like figure. It looked scared because of the noise from the engines and tanks were moving at speed all around.

I couldn’t believe my eyes, so I punched my gunner to look at it because he couldn’t hear me over the engine. We both saw it run into nearby prickly shrubs. “Its fur was similar to an orang-utan in colour, and the length and flow of it. Its face looked black, or darkish, but I couldn’t see its facial features, being too high an angle above it. It was more its gait – the way it moved: it was very fast and seemed to run with large strides. Its height was impressive too, it must have been 6ft-plus, but it seemed to run with its back low, i.e. bent over.

It was an amazing sight to see it disappear into the shrubs. I kept staring at the spot as my tank was moving away but it never emerged again, as if there was a hole below the bush it dived into. I observed the area at distance for a while via the tank’s optics but nothing else was seen. It must have been terrified to move with half the British army tearing Salisbury Plain up. “

I told my superiors as soon as we stopped but it was laughed off so I never mentioned it much after. I did ask my gunner about it and he said he had seen it but not well enough to describe it. It has bothered me to this day, so I thought I would share it with you. I wish I had stopped to see it now. It was right next to me. Very strange.”


Source : Fortean Times Archived

All very peculiar and the stuff of legends.

a reply to: Kandinsky

You've pretty much summed up these saucer crash stories. I am very dubious about them as well.

They all seem to be smaller craft. There never seems to be anything like onboard living quarters, bathrooms etc. I don't think I've even heard of food, water and medical supplies being discovered?

Even if one of the stories is true then what's going on? Why abandon your people? Only alternative reason I can think of is one alluded to earlier in the thread. That these creatures are either something akin to 'Space Monkeys' or perhaps even biological robots. They are expendable and created specifically for space travel.

originally posted by: mirageman

This is vaguely similar to the description given by a forestry worker in Scotland back in 1979. Bob Livingston who claimed the rather strange looking craft he witnessed was partially translucent.

Bob Taylor - Livingston Incident 1979

There were physical markings at the site and Taylor's trousers showed sign of damage. The weird thing is that he was not too far from the M8 motorway, it was late morning and not a soul witnessed anything strange in the sky?.


.So I suspect we humans may not actually be be capable of comprehending the 'real phenomenon' and it actually manifests itself in the mind of the witness as whatever the witness conceives it to be.

Great thread and very freaky incident mate, do remember there being quite a few separately located witnesses who saw 'something' at the same time and place as the Pascagoula event though - seems there's also separately located police witnesses who reported a UFO at the same time and place as the Alan Godrey abduction as well (so don't know what's going on there).

originally posted by: Kandinsky

What do we make of this? It seems to me that a trickle of historical alien and UFO memes were sourced from somewhere within the USAF. Whilst some of the stories reek of hoaxers, others seem to come from decent guys with no incentive to tell tall tales.

Too true mate and it's not really the USAF but let's not forget the U.S. Secretary of State reporting alien bodies in the basement of a Capitol building back in 1939.


Link

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: 111DPKING111

Go on! Do that the Madagascar thread! I know very little about that case so will certainly be interested.

I second that one.

a reply to: mirageman

That tank story sounds remarkably like what has been reported on and around Skinwalker Ranch, the "disappearing into the shrubbery specifically. One theory is there are multidimensional gateways in certain places, another theory is that there are methods or "tools" that can pop open a gateway in certain magnetic fields that are geographically abundant on this planet.

There is also the theory that 100% of these sightings were miss interpretations of what really happened or pure hallucinations, I find it intriguing that they seem to happen all over the place.

a reply to: mirageman

People even claim to have seen weird creatures here in Britain (Bigfoot included!)

Bigfoot in England

There is also an interesting tale from a tank crew training on Salisbury plain in Wiltshire (which is an area of the country close to Stonehenge)

i suspect george price is as made up as the story - unfortunately i couldn't get your link to work so i couldn't check the sources for it

the adam bird link did make me laugh though

a reply to: aynock

Apologies for screwing up that link. Fortean Times seems to make it very difficult to study it's archives these days. I had to use Wayback machine to find the original article. Many of you who have tried will be aware that ATS struggles with links from that site. So I used a tiny URL. But even then you have to add "www." to get it to render on here correctly.

Try this link : www.tinyurl.com...

I too suspect the name George Price is made up. Is the story genuine? It can't be proven either way unless a strange creature is discovered on Salisbury Plain or Mr Price comes clean and admits it was a hoax. This seems to be the only real reference available on the web. So it seems Mr Price went public once and then left it at that.

originally posted by: Springer
a reply to: mirageman

That tank story sounds remarkably like what has been reported on and around Skinwalker Ranch, the "disappearing into the shrubbery specifically. One theory is there are multidimensional gateways in certain places, another theory is that there are methods or "tools" that can pop open a gateway in certain magnetic fields that are geographically abundant on this planet.

There is also the theory that 100% of these sightings were miss interpretations of what really happened or pure hallucinations, I find it intriguing that they seem to happen all over the place.

Some place a lot of significance on the "Ley Lines" " across the globe and believe they are areas of Earth energies or portals. There is no scientific evidence to suggest anything special exists though. But people have always reported strange things through history.

Are these misidentified or hallucinations? I can recall my, now dearly departed grandfather telling me tales of Spring Heeled Jack.

He didn't claim to have seen anything himself. But his dad (my great grandfather) had told him the stories about this strange humanoid creature that leapt over walls and jumped across rooftops (which would have been somewhere in the Liverpool area of England I think). I never worked out if he was telling me tall stories or not. Spring Heeled Jack was probably some kind of eccentric version of a modern "Free Runner". Or maybe he never existed at all. It seems that reports at the time portrayed him as a sort of demonic or devil like being. But we also know that the popular press of the time would embellish and even create stories to sell newspapers. Witnesses can also be influenced by other stories they have heard.

There are more modern reports from India of the Monkey Man. And of course the Mothman stories.

Are these contacts with strange beings due to over active imaginations, simple misidentification or something truly weird?

a reply to: mirageman

thanks for the correct link - probably just a guy in a camo suit who didn't pay his map co-ordinates enough attention that morning

or an escaped super-orang-utan from porton down

originally posted by: karl 12

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: 111DPKING111

Go on! Do that the Madagascar thread! I know very little about that case so will certainly be interested.

I second that one.

I guess I stepped in it mightily. I been looking for info as I go down othe rabbit holes, hopefully can put together something. This and the Oleron angel hair case have the language barrier. No telling how many other cases are hidden in this way.

a reply to: Kandinsky

There's a preponderance of radial symmetry and they have aerodynamic features that would suggest designs for efficient travel within thick atmospheres like ours.

Ive had it in the back of my mind that the size and shape dealt with their gravity propulsion. Maybe it isnt possible to manipulate the field around a large structure. Of course in Star Wars, I think the death star could even go into hyperspace, maybe the truth is only small ships are capable.

The other common shape is cigar, maybe different technology or just different design?

Other than the JAL fight(which many believe was a cloud), not sure if a true large type mothership has been seen.

As to organization / purpose, seeing private companies trying to get into space, these may not be govt controlled craft at all. If it is some private group of researchers, there maybe very little oversight or concern if a craft crashes. Or being a small group, they dont have the resources to do anything about it. Supposedly, the Shag Harbor incident involved one craft helping another according to some anonymous diver (maybe we will get lucky with a death bed confession one day).

But these are exactly the kind of questions one hopes people like Stringfield can help answer, if they can be answered.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

I guess I stepped in it mightily. I been looking for info as I go down the rabbit holes, hopefully can put together something.

Well Karl and I think you should do it. I'm sure others do as well. We are encouraging you because this forum needs people like you who can articulate their selves well and are genuinely interested in looking deeper into the topic.

I've had it in the back of my mind that the size and shape dealt with their gravity propulsion. Maybe it isnt possible to manipulate the field around a large structure. Of course in Star Wars, I think the death star could even go into hyperspace, maybe the truth is only small ships are capable.

Of course the Death Star could go into hyperspace. How do you think it blasted Alderaan to bits and then entered the Yavin system where it took an awful long time to get the rebel moon targeted for destruction. A long. long time ago in a galaxy far, far away technology was highly advanced in hyperspace technology but also completely useless at arriving at precise locations and manoeuvring rapidly in a planetary system at sub-light speeds. .

That was all science fiction. But this Stringfield stuff seems like even he's saying "Here is the information make of it what you will." Whilst refusing to filter any of the information himself. Which makes it harder for us armchair enthusiasts!

But it's still worth a look down that rabbit hole. You just need to know when to pull out.

My passing thought was that saucer crashes always seemed kind of implausible, particularly if the "visitors" had the ability to essentially time travel and insinuate themselves into local realities wherever and whenever they wanted to. If a saucer (a "transition craft", as it were) malfunctioned for some reason, the owners of the craft could simply go back in time before the problem and negate it before it happened.

Except... there is already the suggestion that going back and altering the past doesn't entirely wipe out traces of the divergent timeline. A thought or perception lingers in an odd state of semi-reality, possibly due to quantum indeterminance. Perhaps this is where all the stories come from -- besides hoaxes -- even though there is essentially no good hard evidence of the crashes.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Kandinsky

You've pretty much summed up these saucer crash stories. I am very dubious about them as well.

They all seem to be smaller craft. There never seems to be anything like onboard living quarters, bathrooms etc. I don't think I've even heard of food, water and medical supplies being discovered?

Even if one of the stories is true then what's going on? Why abandon your people? Only alternative reason I can think of is one alluded to earlier in the thread. That these creatures are either something akin to 'Space Monkeys' or perhaps even biological robots. They are expendable and created specifically for space travel.

It's the size of these 'craft' that always kill me. I refuse to believe that we live
on planet of the giants, and that all other lifeforms in the Universe are no more
than 1 foot tall, in order to fit inside these large waves of tiny 'craft'!

As you say, there has never been anything remotely resembling drive systems,
life support systems, food, etc. Even chairs are very uncommon. (We are the
only lifeforms that sit down? Gravity is universal.. everyone should wish to
sit down).

I haven't taken 'ships' to be what we think of as 'ships' in a lot of years.

Now, there is no reason that the 'ships' couldn't be some sort of artificially
aware probe.. and since most people want to see 'ships' then by gosh we
see 'ships'.

Also noteworthy is the human arrogance to assume that these 'ships'
are carrying biological lifeforms. Perhaps they carry some other
type of life form of a less solid nature (perhaps watery, gaseous,
plasma or some other fluid).

But of course, and I'm sure people may be tired of hearing this..
I'm assuming that 'ships' are mere 'attention traps' (look at the
birdie.. look over here.. watch the wand).

The proverbial carrot in front of the nose which can never
be obtained.

Heck, religion, mysticism, occultism and 'UFOs' are all that
way.. a giant shell game.. where the dupe NEVER gets the
coin from under the shell.

Kev

a reply to: mirageman

As regarding "Ley Lines" and what not, that Albert Budden
book in my signature line is a real treasure; not that it
proves anything, but it opens a very interesting window
into the 'UFO' phenomenon that we seldom discuss on
ATS.

For example, paranormal researchers who investigate
'poltergeists' record the same sort of effects and
readings as many 'UFOs'. The contactees and even
'abductees' tell the same kind of stories.

So just like we have never truly 'caught' a 'poltergeist';
if it's a related phenomenon (that's my opinion) then
I don't expect that we will ever 'catch' a 'UFO'.

Now of course I'm discussing the so-called '5%'
type of 'UFOs' (more like UAP's).

I fully acknowledge that government deception
and simple misidentification of things like Venus,
balloons, birds, etc. are the lions share of
sightings.

I'm not saying that other explanations are not
possible.. but this explanation has literally
double the explanatory power (or at least double
the data set of observation), as 'poltergeist'
type phenomenon has been happening from
the very beginning of human history too.

Kev

Adamski's films like him are
97% hoax. But who cares, 3% are
very interesting.

Like a good ATSer I commented above then went back and read the thread
That was a fantastic thread Mirage. Really really good. I forgot many details.

Remember the good ol days when Aliens looked like you and me ?
Like when Captain Raquel Aura Welch would
give you a ride to Saturn in her flying saucer?
..now it's implant this and spindly mantis that..

ok but what's weird is,
if Van Tassels aliens were 6 inches taller and skipped the tanning booth
I'd read all of Charles Hall's Millennial Hospitality books.