Hallo Spaceboy – Exploring the Era of the ‘Contactees’

a reply to: mirageman

It seems, to me, that for every abductee claiming the 'truth,' there's another claiming an equal 'truth' and entirely different experiences. I wonder how Mack's cases were mostly positive whereas Jacobs' cases are suggestive of something cold bordering on evil? Or why Montaldo's ICAR cases describe reptilians, red-haired humans and evil aliens?

Why did Betty get the gentleman officer whilst poor Barney got the SS camp guards? Why the rituals of taking genetic material time-after-time when our own technology has surpassed theirs from the peak of the phenomenon?

Whilst we're at it, what about the menagerie of past visitors? is it only the 'real' aliens that look like greys? Do we reject all the humanoid encounters claims from the 50s-70s as hoaxes and fables? 'Screen memories?' If we do, should we still believe the word of people saying they've passed time with greys? Are they all truthful, some of them truthful or maybe it's something else?

Can they all be right and truthful? What of 'screen memories?' If they exist, how does one know that there isn't another layer behind the owls and aliens? Or another layer behind that one?

The unavoidable presence of human perception, influence and consciousness seems to make certainties rather ineffable.

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Scdfa

Hello Scdfella.

I haven't bumped into you for a while and I actually think I've got used to you now. I think we know our views are somewhat apart and I accept that.

However what I'd like to know is where you actually stand on a couple of things.

i) I keep coming across how the intel boys seemed to have poisoned the ET subject (probably from 1947 onwards). Do you have a view on that? Are they heavily involved?

ii) In your experience are these aliens something from another world (like ours) or are they really 'alien' to us? What I mean by that is they exist beyond our own perceptions of reality. Call it a different dimension if you like.

1. I just don't know for certain, but, yes of course they have. Whoever "they" are. There is a clear record of decades of damage control, efforts to minimize the credibility of those with genuine information and experiences by promoting or inventing charlatans. But what do I know.

2.I really do not know this one.
If they ever told me, I can't consciously remember it.
I'm not sue to what degree my encounters are similar to others, but they don't volunteer a lot of information or answer a lot of questions. Some questions, yes, but you have to really impress them or annoy them to get their interest.
Nor do they ask many questions, usually they're all business.
Now that you make me think about it, I think they are on a very tight schedule. I can say that with conviction. I don't know if anyone ever said that about them before, I may be the first.

But back to your question on ET vs. Interdimensional.
Well, in another dimension, there might be planets too.
Or, they could be from another planet, here in our galaxy, or maybe another, and travel in some manner that we may consider to be interdimensional.
So couldn't they be both ET and interdimensional? You can probably throw time travel in there too.

I will say this. I once witnessed a flying saucer slowly 'fade in', until it was shiny, solid and focused, fifty feet in elevation, almost right above us. At first it was almost translucent. I'm convinced it was entering our dimension, our reality. But its starting point I can't say.

I'll also tell you this, and this is something I have not revealed to this point. One of them once told my brother of a future event, about a decade before it happened. It was an event that was reported nationally, but of questionable significance. If I told you what it was, you would not believe it.

But you don't think any of it is true anyway.

Some of us really appreciate you sharing such experiences and insights; it is rare to be able to interact with one such as yourself.

I apologize for the high-schoolish name callers, I saw one person call you a "pretender", someone who is way too old for such childish antics. You would hope on a site like ATS posters would relish the experience to chat with someone such as yourself as you do seem to answer most even though some don't deserve it; and give you the benefit of the doubt or at the very least reserve judgement - though many seem to be one step away from the Salem witch trials when it comes to your experiences.

Anyway, thanks for this post, another great one. You are right that I have never heard they are on a tight schedule, any speculation as to why?

And of course you are right, they can be from another dimension and still be aliens, some seem to infer these are mutually exclusive. I have read that they just manipulate time in order to travel, that is how their craft move, that is why they often just seem to appear.

The science of extraterrestrials by Eric Julien:

Link

Please share what they told your brother, its not fair to tease us like that! You know some would be open to what it was no matter what, and some would be closed minded to it no matter what. Thanks!

originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE
Please share what they told your brother, its not fair to tease us like that!

I'm sure that he'll share it. Just as soon as he finishes coming up with it.

a reply to: Kandinsky

It seems, to me, that for every abductee claiming the 'truth,' there's another claiming an equal 'truth' and entirely different experiences. I wonder how Mack's cases were mostly positive whereas Jacobs' cases are suggestive of something cold bordering on evil? Or why Montaldo's ICAR cases describe reptilians, red-haired humans and evil aliens?

That's simply answered.
Because people encounter different alien races, of course.
I know you're aware there are accounts of more aliens than just greys. And witness accounts of those different types of aliens still follow a particular pattern in description, as well as pattern of behavior. That indicates they are all giving accurate truthful information.

Now to the matter of John Mack's optimism vs the more realistic view of so many researchers, like David Jacobs, and Budd Hopkins, and Karla Turner.

You will find that Mack's interviews with abductees show largely the same data as the other researchers.
The witnesses gave the same accounts. Same aliens, same ships, same procedures.

It isn't true for you to say they were describing "entirely different experiences".
Their testimony is conclusively corroborative. Were there variations? Of course.
But I know you are aware that there are thousand and thousands of accounts that are undeniably the same, so why say otherwise?

Budd Hopkins, who dragged John Mack kicking and screaming to the topic in the first place, made it clear in debate felt Mack was actively trying to convince these abductees that there experience was a positive one. Mack's data shows that these people were frightened, even terrified by their abductions, and Mack encouraged them to 'realize what a spiritual blessing' it was.
To be taken against your will for unwanted medical procedures.

Watch the Youtube debate between Mack and Budd Hopkins.
Budd tell it point blank, positive feelings about abductions weren't coming from the aliens, and they weren't coming from the abductees, they were coming from John Mack. Mack brought a lot of needed attention to the subject, so I'm grateful, but Budd Hopkins was the real authority on alien abductions.

Don't take my word for it, watch it yourself:

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: admirethedistance

originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE
Please share what they told your brother, its not fair to tease us like that!

I'm sure that he'll share it. Just as soon as he finishes coming up with it.

What a childish thing to post. We are trying to have a conversation here, let the grown-ups talk.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Excellent points.

Whilst we're at it, what about the menagerie of past visitors? is it only the 'real' aliens that look like greys? Do we reject all the humanoid encounters claims from the 50s-70s as hoaxes and fables? 'Screen memories?' If we do, should we still believe the word of people saying they've passed time with greys? Are they all truthful, some of them truthful or maybe it's something else?

Who knows? There seems to have been this shift from the 'human' looking aliens in the 1950s and 1960s to the little grey men by the 1980s and then by the turn of the century things go much quieter. Slap bang in the middle of it all was Travis Walton's abduction/rescue story (call it what you like) where he claims to have seen a humanoid crew alongside aliens resembling the greys. It's almost like the morphing point 1975. The year when the humanoids slowly disappeared and the grey guys became much more common.


© Michael H. Rogers - Walton confronts 'grey' aliens


© Michael H. Rogers - Walton encounters human looking aliens

Of course many claim that Walton's story is a complete fabrication as well. However if it was then it was a damned good one!

There is a saying "Life's What You Make It" (and also a very old song by Talk Talk) and I've come to the conclusion on some things it really is. That's why I don't think there is one singular answer to this phenomenon and we just shouldn't lump everything into one or two baskets. Because in the end you will start to force fit scenarios into one or the other. This goes for whatever side of the fence you stand.

a reply to: Scdfa

Hello Scdfella,

Hope the family are OK by the way?

Anyway - I'm guilty of letting this thread drift a bit but I think what we are discussing is still relevant.

What do you think was going on during the 50s and the contactee era? Was it linked to later abductions?

(Anyway got attend to something now so won't be back until tomorrow!)

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Scdfa

Hello Scdfella,

Hope the family are OK by the way?

Anyway - I'm guilty of letting this thread drift a bit but I think what we are discussing is still relevant.

What do you think was going on during the 50s and the contactee era? Was it linked to later abductions?

(Anyway got attend to something now so won't be back until tomorrow!)

Thanks for the kind words, mm, Hospice is helping us now. But we had a wonderful Father's day, making the most of the time we have. I deeply appreciate your asking.

As to your questions, I just can't speak about the 50s with much insight, it was before me, but I will say my mother was taken in the very late 1950s. And talking to Budd Hopkins, he had cases where the abductees were taken long before WWII, from the late 1920s, early 1930s. Which I found shocking, but it is valuable information towards understanding the situation more thoroughly.

So it's not like there were no greys then. I was taken, first I remember, in 1966., greys were involved.

Also, people have seen humans with the aliens quite often. I remember a case where a woman being abducted panicked and wet herself and left a puddle on the floor. One of the aliens angrily snapped at a human with them to go clean it up.

Don't believe the "no emotions" BS, not for one second. They are quite prone to impatience, frustration, and even anger.
One time, we saw them downright afraid, believe it or not.
They also can be very friendly, and on at least some level, quite concerned and considerate.

Sometimes the whole thing strikes me as a busy day at a veterinarian's office. That just about sums it up.

I've sometimes wondered about the notion of "timeline incursions" by puzzling agents from the future (or some kind of future) that had the general effect of steering our reality in particular directions. There are certain eras that seem to me to have the wrong kind of "feel" about them, as if something had gone wrong with the structure of reality at that time. You can get a sense of it in the movies, popular culture, etc. I get a particularly strong feeling about changes being made right around 1950, just when the contactees really started to show themselves.

Without any concrete proof I can point to, I just get the impression that these travelers -- apparently humans who have the technological ability to shift themselves in time (or reality structures) -- might have somehow been motivated to pretend to be aliens in order to obfuscate who they really were.

One thing that always bugged me about them was how concerned they always seemed to be about humanity screwing up the planet. If they were aliens, why would they care so much? However, if they were humans from an alternate future reality, then they might have a big reason to care, since it could threaten their very existence.

Combine these ridiculous spacemen with the "real" Men In Black, and there seems to be a sporadic (not consistent) effort by some kind of clandestine force or agency to interact with our reality for some unknown reason. Timeline manipulation? But to what end?

a reply to: Blue Shift

One thing that always bugged me about them was how concerned they always seemed to be about humanity screwing up the planet. If they were aliens, why would they care so much? However, if they were humans from an alternate future reality, then they might have a big reason to care, since it could threaten their very existence.

Sort of like Plato's Cave and they are the set designers or the guys in Dark City forever changing reality whilst the ephemeral lives of the people flash by unaware? Your time-shifting humans could be weaving through our histories and we'd have no more knowledge than that tip-of-the-tongue thought that never quite materialises even though we know it's in there...somewhere.

It could be looked at another way too. None of the messages ever involve us leaving Earth and their anti-technology themes would restrict our progress. Wilcox' 'Martian' friends went so far as to say our attempts to leave Earth would cause the death of Russian and American astronauts - the success of the predictions were mixed. Sure, there are the occasional allusions to individuals that they too will be in space (in the future) and yet how many of those have died and been buried in the earth?

The messages from the 'greys,' are similarly apocalyptic or catastrophic. They're here to 'help' and seem to be doing no such thing. Surely they could abduct a leading scientist, teach them about environmentally-friendly technology and dump 'em back in general population none the wiser? Or seed a successful contraceptive idea that balances our population to the needs of the planet. Maybe give 'em a teensy-weensy cure for hayfever to give their messengers some credibility?

Instead we get someone like Schirmer with his 'little guys' saying they 'want you to believe, but not too much' or Higson's elk-hunters from '163,000 light miles' away...

In an odd sense, they're like the assholes from childhood who keep jumping out of wardrobes and shouting, 'Boo!' Or the older sibling that likes whispering ghost stories to give the others wet beds and nightmares.

The connotations of the message are apparently for us to stay right here on Planet Earth and live in a garden economy. Given the obscurity and comedy idiocy of their purported locations, perhaps you're close in saying 'they' reside in local space?

Where you mention 'right around 1950,' I'd agree and move it back towards the mid-40s. It seems like Trinity Tests and intercontinental warheads coincided with the all the drama about foos, saucers and bizarre visitors. This technology can damage the planet or lead to us getting off it which supports these idle what-ifs.

(none of the above is a 'belief,' it's just speculating and imagining from historical case reports)

a reply to: mirageman

Just thought I'd say "Hi" in response to your comment about not many people
being on the boards right now.

As it happens, I've lost 90% of my interest in reading ATS posts, as the more
fringe posters have for the most part been all 'shouted down' by the usual
cast of disappointing characters.

As for the other 10% that remains for me; I've lost nearly all my interest in
the topic of UFOs. Which is a bit strange in and of itself I suppose.

For one, nothing could possibly change my own close encounter of the
first or third kind (it's debatable which it was). The 'thing' looked like
it could have taken on the 'Enterprise' two out of three times, and it
didn't seem to care one whit about the laws of physics. BTW, I give
zero credibility to the black ops aircraft stuff being a possible answer
and I've studied that angle in some depth. I certainly have a technology
background, having done nuclear power in the Military for 7 years.

But I seem to have 'emotionally let that incident go'. I'm not going to
get an 'answer' no matter how much I dig.

Then the other factor (and I'll just come out and say this now) is that
I spent all day with Jacques Vallee and his wife early in the year.
He came to my house and we had a very pleasant time together.

Now rather than whipping me up into some sort of UFO frenzy, it
had the opposite effect. It was rather anti-climatic actually.

There are a lot of points the good doctor and I are in complete
agreement with. He does know more about the topic than anyone
else I've ever met or conversed with. And he is quite an amazing
and charming individual. A real treasure actually.

I won't discuss any details of the meeting really, and there is no
need to do so. Read all his books, all his Internet interviews
and that's pretty much what he has to say.

I guess in summary, I still do have a slight interest in the topic,
but actually (thank goodness) my 50 year obsession with the
topic of the strange intelligence that shares the planet with
us (and is confabulated into UFO phenonemon) has 'let me go'.

I suppose in a manner of speaking, I'd been a 'contactee' since
1981, when I was firmly gripped by the very strange phenomenon
in the public auditorium filled by 10,000 people in Minnesota.

Well anyway... great post.. I too love those stories.. and know
them.. as Keel and Valee wrote about them.

Kev

a reply to: Scdfa

Glad you had a good father's day despite the situation. I fully understand the difficult circumstances you are in so once again my thoughts are with you and your family.

When times are better I still think your story would make a very interesting thread but I understand why that's probably very low on your priorities at the moment.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
Where you mention 'right around 1950,' I'd agree and move it back towards the mid-40s. It seems like Trinity Tests and intercontinental warheads coincided with the all the drama about foos, saucers and bizarre visitors. This technology can damage the planet or lead to us getting off it which supports these idle what-ifs.

(none of the above is a 'belief,' it's just speculating and imagining from historical case reports)

I suspect a series of incursions into our timeline/reality that peak every 10 years or so. The first batch in the late 1940s/1950, but then again in and around 1960, 1972, 1983, 1992, 2001, and most recently right now. I almost hate to even bring it up, because there's no proof. It's just an impression of things being "not quite right."

In any event, you're right. The Intruders/Visitors/Watchers always seem to be speaking from some kind of external viewpoint either in time or space and giving us warnings about what could happen if we continue our evil ways -- but they never actually do anything practical about it. They never really help, unless planting the thought on a very subconscious level is enough.

Physical manifestations of our own collective insecurities? I admit I don't understand reality enough to know if that is even possible. It's not according to any Newtonian physical universe I'm roughly familiar with.

a reply to: mirageman

This is a really great write up. Thanks for taking the time.

I look forward to more in the future.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Good to see you back

I have missed reading your insightful posts... I guess i will take ur tip and start reading Jaques Vallee books. Im aware of his work just never actually read his books.

a reply to: Kandinsky

a reply to: Blue Shift

The time travelling theory is certainly an interesting one and would certainly explain the secrecy and false stories from these beings, the environmental messages etc. But then what role do the little grey guys play? As for the timeline being off in the 1950s I sort of like that idea even if it's just speculative thinking.

I'd actually been contemplating that some of these spacemen were a cover up. Basically the product of intel agencies to brainwash the Contactees into telling ridiculous sounding tales. Later there was no need to use humans to act in the role of the space visitors as their tech and methods advanced. But I'm not convinced.

Perhaps Kandinsky is close as well and whatever is behind it all wants the Earth to remain the "North Korea" of the galaxy?

Interesting speculation and maybe Scdfella's and many others are experiencing something that they can't prove but is very real to them because it actually didn't happen in the 'altered timeline' we all now inhabit.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Thanks for dropping in Kev. I would say some UFO sightings are black ops aircraft certainly. But I am sick and tired of going down that road because I just don't buy into it explaining the whole strange phenomena?

Like I said earlier in the thread it's important not to put everything into one or two baskets. I think it's a number of explainable and unexplainable things. And maybe Valee and Keel's ideas are more relevant than the nuts and bolts ETH?

a reply to: LyndellUrbytes

Welcome to forums my friend. You will find that there are a lot of good posters and posts in this forum but you have to look for them!

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear
... I guess i will take ur tip and start reading Jaques Vallee books. Im aware of his work just never actually read his books.

You might find this a good starting point?



Kind Regards MM

originally posted by: mirageman
But then what role do the little grey guys play?

Not sure. But, of course, the "greys" really didn't gain much momentum until the late 70s/early 80s, with Close Encounters, Communion, and Intruders. Prior to then, they were more often described simply as little people, although with some slight variations in the shape of their eyes. With Betty and Barney Hill and the Roswell aliens, they were not initially lumped together into the Grey category.

I guess that's a sea change. The transition from benevolent Space Brothers (like Billy Meier and his Pleaideans) to the Greys. I agree that the Travis Walton story is a pivotal encounter, since it incorporates both Greys and Nordics, the latter of which were not included in the movie version of the story, possibly because it would appear too ridiculous.

The Greys aren't all that well-known for engaging with their contactees/abductees on an intellectual level like their old spaceman precursors. The Greys seem to have no particular message that they want to pass along. They don't seem to care about the environment or nuclear proliferation. They're much more like robots, going about their tasks. Maybe by the time they became prevalent, the major adjustments to the timeline had already been accomplished and the Greys are sent in to monitor how things are progressing. How we are progressing.

It's puzzling, but I suppose that's why I'm drawn to the "high strangeness" cases rather than the ordinary, run-of-the-mill encounters. The stuff that doesn't make logical sense to me has always seemed more authentic, since people will often leave out the weirdness and try very hard to force their encounters into a standard, more understandable mold. We do it with our dreams. Try to make sense of them. Concentrate on some aspects and leave out others.

Anyway, I think it's interesting that you really didn't get this kind of thing happening until after World War II. Prior to that, the focus was ghosts. Maybe it's all part of the same spectrum.