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#WWJVD: New Gun Laws - Unnecessary Danger or Necessary Right?

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posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 10:22 AM
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I do believe these gun shows that pop up in towns for weekends should not be allowed to sell guns on the spot. I think you should have to have training and a background check to own one.
Also, I think someone convicted of a shooting who did not have a legally acquired weapon, should face additional charges for that alone.

Will this solve 100% of the problem? NO but would be a good step forward.

Btw are you really the Jesse Ventura? If so, I really liked your series.




posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 10:23 AM
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originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: NavyDoc



pretty much everyone agreed on the meaning of the second amendment


Pretty much? That doesn't sound very convincing when it pertains to our 2nd amendment RIGHT. If it was a clearly defined right, why have the authorities been able to create gun laws overriding the 2nd amendment itself? If we "pretty much" agreed what the 2nd amendment covered, we wouldn't need politicians and bureaucrats passing legislation to further decide what is acceptable under the 2nd amendment. Would we?


You can thank progressives for ALL of that......the agenda has always been to uproot the constitution and circumvent rights....

Change the argument, redifine the words, establish a different truth instead of what is actually true.....

Its a damn play book


It is both conservatives and progressives that uproot the constitution and circumvent rights. Have you not paid attention to politics for at least the last 50 years? Either your "play book" is to blame solely progressives, or you are not paying attention to what is happening around you, or you have your own agenda.

When it comes to the 2nd amendment, there is really nothing to it to be changed. That's the problem. The 2nd amendment is vague, it does not clearly define our right as it pertains to the current state of warfare and technology, and that is what allows the gun-grabbers the opportunity to pass laws that further define it in a way that, I believe, infringes on our right to arm ourselves equal to that of our military forces.


edit on 19-6-2015 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 10:34 AM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: NavyDoc



pretty much everyone agreed on the meaning of the second amendment


Pretty much? That doesn't sound very convincing when it pertains to our 2nd amendment RIGHT. If it was a clearly defined right, why have the authorities been able to create gun laws overriding the 2nd amendment itself? If we "pretty much" agreed what the 2nd amendment covered, we wouldn't need politicians and bureaucrats passing legislation to further decide what is acceptable under the 2nd amendment. Would we?


It was and is clearly defined and for the majority of our country's existence, that definition was known and followed.

The answer is obvious--politicians have ignored the Constitution and have gotten laws passed that contravene it, just not the second amendment but many others. WOD? Patriot act? And an uneducated electorate let them get away with it.



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 10:36 AM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: NavyDoc



pretty much everyone agreed on the meaning of the second amendment


Pretty much? That doesn't sound very convincing when it pertains to our 2nd amendment RIGHT. If it was a clearly defined right, why have the authorities been able to create gun laws overriding the 2nd amendment itself? If we "pretty much" agreed what the 2nd amendment covered, we wouldn't need politicians and bureaucrats passing legislation to further decide what is acceptable under the 2nd amendment. Would we?


You can thank progressives for ALL of that......the agenda has always been to uproot the constitution and circumvent rights....

Change the argument, redifine the words, establish a different truth instead of what is actually true.....

Its a damn play book


It is both conservatives and progressives that uproot the constitution and circumvent rights. Have you not paid attention to politics for at least the last 50 years? Either your "play book" is to blame solely progressives, or you are not paying attention to what is happening around you, or you have your own agenda.

When it comes to the 2nd amendment, there is really nothing to it to be changed. That's the problem. The 2nd amendment is vague, it does not clearly define our right as it pertains to the current state of warfare and technology, and that is what allows the gun-grabbers the opportunity to pass laws that further define it in a way that, I believe, infringes on our right to arm ourselves equal to that of our military forces.



Considering that the militia act of 1792, written by the same people who wrote the 2nd, states that we should all be armed as the average soldier you would be correct that the intent was permit the citizen to be armed just like the soldier.

The second is very clear, the fact that politicians have been trying to ignore it the last 70 years does not make it any less clear.



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

You are making my point for me. The constitution does not clearly define that right and we must look outside of the constitution for some sort of clarification.



we should all be armed as the average soldier you would be correct that the intent was permit the citizen to be armed just like the soldier.


As Mac can attest, not all pro-2nd proponents agree on this. Some believe we should go much further. Without a clearly defined 2nd amendment, and a unified 2nd amendment group, we leave it all up to interpretation.



posted on Jun, 19 2015 @ 10:57 AM
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The problem is with the people who refuse to acknowledge the commas in the 2nd amendment. They were put there to separate the militia section from the the people section. Take the commas out and the meaning changes to what the gun grabbers want, one long sentence about a well regulated militia. It most likely pisses off every gun grabber in the country that our founders using proper English have prevented them from making us all serfs.



posted on Jun, 21 2015 @ 03:03 AM
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Gun proliferation is directly proportional to increased public safety.

And now a word from your president...

edit on 21-6-2015 by AlexJowls because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 04:02 PM
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originally posted by: maybee
I do believe these gun shows that pop up in towns for weekends should not be allowed to sell guns on the spot. I think you should have to have training and a background check to own one.
Also, I think someone convicted of a shooting who did not have a legally acquired weapon, should face additional charges for that alone.

Will this solve 100% of the problem? NO but would be a good step forward.

Btw are you really the Jesse Ventura? If so, I really liked your series.


I don't know what state you're referring to but every single show I've been to has a table where background checks are done. Now, private sellers are a different matter but you can't stop that....they'll just go out in the parking lot and sell them - I've seen that before but the cat's out of the bag so-to-speak.



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: maybee
I do believe these gun shows that pop up in towns for weekends should not be allowed to sell guns on the spot. I think you should have to have training and a background check to own one.


All firearms purchased from a dealer at a gun show are subject to the same paperwork and background check as those purchased in a store.


Also, I think someone convicted of a shooting who did not have a legally acquired weapon, should face additional charges for that alone.


That's already the case but lawyers always try to get any additional charges thrown out or reduced.


edit on 6/22/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2015 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: JesseVentura

Gun laws are like changing the tires in attempt to fix a car that wont start. Every one says well if we make it harder to keep guns out of hands of criminals .... It sounds good but all your really doing is backing everyone else in a corner. Criminals are criminals, why? Because its easy,and cops are always minutes away and rarely even the second responders. They are a "show of force" and the clean up crew, and can never be anything more. Any crime a cop could have prevented there were likely 5 people who could have stopped it sooner. Criminals almost always have the element of surprise, with that the weapon of choice matters little. You know that as well as anyone. The conversation should be about why people are loosing there self worth. I read today that last year there were 30k + gun deaths.... And nearly 20k are suicides (not sure how accurate that is because for some odd reason its hard to find the two in same statistics)... I didnt look it up, started to and read one says yes suicides are in the statistics and one said no there seperate... Its not really important imo... i can look at the country's drug prob and see the state of our mental health. Thats the discussion we need to be having, not weather the constitution needs to be trampled on or not.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 04:14 AM
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originally posted by: maybee
I do believe these gun shows that pop up in towns for weekends should not be allowed to sell guns on the spot. I think you should have to have training and a background check to own one.


There is no reason that the government can not setup a instant check system for these gun shows that would allow around 90% of the public with no criminal records and in good standing from taking the gun home with them.
The system is already there for gun stores.
www.nraila.org...

Some states already have this instant check system in place and it works good.
most of those states are pro gun rights.
Its the states that do not have a instant check system in place or have waiting periods also just happen to be anti gun rights states.

As for training i believe a DD214 or other proof of military service(VA card), a hunting License, guard card, or a safety course would be a good. idea.

Better yet gun safety should be taught in schools like they did back before the 1950s.
edit on 23-6-2015 by ANNED because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 11:27 AM
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originally posted by: ANNED

originally posted by: maybee
I do believe these gun shows that pop up in towns for weekends should not be allowed to sell guns on the spot. I think you should have to have training and a background check to own one.


There is no reason that the government can not setup a instant check system for these gun shows that would allow around 90% of the public with no criminal records and in good standing from taking the gun home with them.
The system is already there for gun stores.
www.nraila.org...


Dealers at gun shows are required to use the instant check system. A licensed dealer MUST perform the FBI instant check no matter where they sell a firearm, unless the person has a concealed handgun permit.

I keep having to say this... if people would bother doing a little research, they'd realize that most of their concerns are already addressed by current laws.

Some states require background checks for non-licensed person to person sales at gun shows but there is absolutely nothing stopping those individuals from walking out into the parking lot or driving down the street to conduct their business without a background check.

The anti-gun folks keep pushing this idiotic "gun show loophole" nonsense on everyone but those of us who know how gun shows operate realize that it's a complete lie.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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Many parking lot sales are hot guns and the buyer beware they could end up in jail for life if the gun was used in a crime and they can not prove they did not do it.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: swimmer15
a reply to: JesseVentura

Gun laws are like changing the tires in attempt to fix a car that wont start. Every one says well if we make it harder to keep guns out of hands of criminals .... It sounds good but all your really doing is backing everyone else in a corner. Criminals are criminals, why? Because its easy,and cops are always minutes away and rarely even the second responders. They are a "show of force" and the clean up crew, and can never be anything more. Any crime a cop could have prevented there were likely 5 people who could have stopped it sooner. Criminals almost always have the element of surprise, with that the weapon of choice matters little. You know that as well as anyone. The conversation should be about why people are loosing there self worth. I read today that last year there were 30k + gun deaths.... And nearly 20k are suicides (not sure how accurate that is because for some odd reason its hard to find the two in same statistics)... I didnt look it up, started to and read one says yes suicides are in the statistics and one said no there seperate... Its not really important imo... i can look at the country's drug prob and see the state of our mental health. Thats the discussion we need to be having, not weather the constitution needs to be trampled on or not.


Off topic, but thank you for being a SAR swimmer. You guys saved my sorry butt about 20 years ago.



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 12:57 PM
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originally posted by: ANNED
Many parking lot sales are hot guns and the buyer beware they could end up in jail for life if the gun was used in a crime and they can not prove they did not do it.


No they aren't and no they can't. You don't go to jail if you can't prove you didn't commit a crime... you go to jail if the prosecutor can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you DID do it.

Most parking lot sales are between two individuals who are completely legal to buy a gun and the gun isn't stolen. Before I was licensed, I sold many guns in the parking lot because someone would see me walking in and want the gun I'm intending to sell.

Don't try to comment when you don't actually know. Even IF someone unknowingly buys a gun used in a crime, the ATF will ask a few questions and take the gun as evidence. They don't arrest the owner unless the owner is under serious suspicion of being involved somehow. Too many gun owners have this silly notion in their head that they'll be arrested and charged with a crime just because they bought the gun used in that crime... but there are no records to back that up. It's all nonsense fear-mongering from the gun-nut rumor mill.

Criminals with stolen guns don't have to wait for a gun show to get rid of their merchandise. Stop pushing the lies. If what you've said is true, the police would set up in every gun show parking lot and keep a very close eye on any deals going on.
edit on 6/23/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2015 @ 09:54 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc


Thanks! Feelings is mutual brother, you guys have put me back together more than once!



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