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illuminati family tree?

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posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 10:38 PM
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I hear all sorts of things about the bloodlines of the illuminati, but have not found any source which traces it down family to family. I have searched the internet for illuminati family tree, but all I find is people talking about it, no actual tree/graph/chart of any sort. Does someone have a source for this?




posted on Dec, 25 2004 @ 12:29 AM
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This might be a good place to start. You have the major families and you can build your family tree from it.

I have not seen the 'tree' style family history. Without the supporting information, I don't really think it is all that useful. Especially with the intermingling of the families (Kennedy and Onassis for example). The tree itself may turn out to be a giant matrix.

Also take a look here at another thread from ATS on the Illuminati.

[edit on 12/25/04 by crayon]



posted on Dec, 25 2004 @ 03:38 AM
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13 bloodlines that go back to the Summerian Empire, even to atlantis (i think). All world leaders are believed to be choosen on blood links to the 13 lines, not voted in by the people.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.thewatcherfiles.com...[/url
[url]http://www.whale.to/b/sp/bloodlines.html



posted on Dec, 25 2004 @ 02:02 PM
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The whole bloodline thing doesn't really fit in to anything I've read about the Illuminati.
Not meaning to cause offence, but I try to limit myself to "factual" books on the subject and my understanding is that "the Illuminati" is a spark of thought, NOT a single gene that will "create and become god."

I feel that the extension of this idea into genetics merely coincides with current popular science fiction.
Having said that, the whole "belief in belief" principle that drives Freemasonry (and "Improved" or "Illuminated Freemasonry"...aka Illuminati) would have no problem with encouraging the notion.



posted on Dec, 25 2004 @ 02:20 PM
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I too struggle with the Illuminati story however certain episodes in history bring together many of the players regarded as illuminati, certainly the influence of the Warbergs, Rothschild and Rockerfellers (Rockenfelders) in the history of the twentieth century cannot be overlooked.

Please consider the story of IG Farben...

It has been said by Anthony C. Sutton in his book, Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler: "Without the capital supplied by Wall Street, there would have been no I. G. Farben in the first place, and almost certainly no Adolph Hitler and World War II."

Interssen Gemeinschaft Farben (Interessen Gemeinschaft der Deutschen Teerfarbeninduistrie, or, simply, I.G. Farben) was a German chemical manufacturing concern that supplied the chlorine gas used by Germany during the First World War, but the eventual creation of the huge I.G.Farben cartel began in 1924 when American bankers began to arrange foreign loans in what Professor Carroll Quigley terms "the Dawes Plan", "largely a J.P. Morgan production"/

In 1928 Henry Ford merged his German assets with I.G. Farben, to be followed by the American Standard Oil Company (the Rockefellers) who, in concert with I.G.Farben, developed the coal-to-oil hydrogenation process.

In a letter to Roosevelt from Berlin in the early 'thirties, the US Ambassador in Germany, William Dodd, said:

"At the present moment, more than a hundred American corporations have subsidiaries here or cooperative understandings.

"The DuPonts have their allies in Germany that are aiding in the armament business. Their chief ally is the I.G. Farben Company, a part of the government which gives 200,000 marks a year to one propaganda organization operating on American opinion.

"Standard Oil Company ... sent US$500,000 a year helping Germans make ersatz [a substitute] gas [the hydrogenation process of converting coal to gasoline] for war purposes; but Standard Oil cannot take any of its earnings out of the country except in goods.

"The International Harvester Company president told me their business here rose 33% a year [arms manufacture, I believe], they could take nothing out.

"Even our airplanes people have secret arrangements with Krupps.

"General Motors Company and Ford do enormous business here through their subsidiaries and take no profits out."

The I.G. Farben assets in America were controlled by a holding company, American I.G. Farben, which listed on its Board of Directors: Edsel Ford, President of the Ford Motor Company; Chas. E. Mitchell, President of Rockefeller's National City Bank of New York; Walter Teagle, President of Standard Oil of New York; Paul Warburg, Chairman of the Federal Reserve and brother of Max Warburg, financier of Germany's war effort; and Herman Metz, a Director of the Bank of Manhattan, controlled by the Warburgs.

It is an interesting fact of history that three other members of the Board of American I.G. Farben were tried and convicted as German "war criminals" for their "crimes against humanity" during World War II, while serving on the I.G. Farben Board of Governors. None of the Americans who sat on the same board as those convicted was ever tried as a "war criminal".

Throughout the entire second World War conflict, not one bomb fell on the I.G. Farben headquarters in Frankfurt, Germany, allegedly as a consequence of Allied orders.

In 1938, I.G. Farben borrowed 500 tons of tetra-ethyl lead, the gasoline additive, from Standard Oil.

During 1939, the year Germany invaded Austria and Poland, the Standard Oil Company of New Jersey loaned I.G. Farben US$20,000,000 worth of high-grade gasoline.

In 1939 the American Aluminum Company (Alcoa), then probably the world's largest producer of sodium fluoride, transferred its technology to Germany (the Alted Agreement). The Dow Chemical Company transmitted its experience and technology in that same period.

Germany's two largest tank manufacturers were Opel, a subsidiary of General Motors (J.P. Morgan), and the German subsidiary of the Ford Motor Company.

Even with the purchase of oil from non-German sources, the major supplier of oil was still the Farben cartel. The I.G. Farben cartel a monopoly on German gasoline production. Just under one half of the Germans' high-octane gasoline in 1945 was produced directly by I.G. Farben, and most of the balance by its affiliated companies.

So, in 1941 when cylinders of Zyklon B, the deadly cyanide-based extermination gas made by I.G. Farben, were lethally unvalved on inmates of Auschwitz, Bitterfeld, Walfen, Hoechst, Agfa, Ludwigshafen and Buchenwald, there were more than substantial links between huge American technology and German manufacturers.

What of IG Farben Today

I.G. Farben signed cartel agreements with such companies as Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI), Borden , Carnation, General Mill, M.W. Kellogg Co., Nestl and Pet Milk, and I. G. Farben either owns outright, has had a substantial interest in or has had other cartel agreements with Owl Drug, Parke-Davis and Co., Bayer and Co., Whitehall Laboratories, Chef-Boy-Ar-Dee Foods, Bristol Meyers and Squibb and Sons. The list goes on and on and on and includes Proctor and Gamble.

The only reference to "Farben" traceable in a limited search of modern literature was in 25th Edition of Martindale, under "F.B.A. Pharmaceutical Limited; Products of Farbenfabriken Bayer".

befreetech.com...



posted on Dec, 25 2004 @ 02:42 PM
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I don't disagree that there a families who are closely allied with "The Illuminati" (To be blunt , they exist. The organisation is a "school of thought", it was never fully dis-banded and the belief system it espouses has never been publicly declared so it can't be debunked, an ironic oxymoron...)
What I dispute though is that it is a bloodline (or any "line") reaching back to ancient times.
There is deliberate hazing of the Illuminati's origins with all sorts of previous societies (pretty much anything that had a reference to "light" in its name.)
When we speak of the Illuminati we are talking about Adam Weishaupt's school of "Illuminated Freemasonry", drawn from the ideologies of Voltaire and friends...

[edit on 25-12-2004 by MrNECROS]

[edit on 25-12-2004 by MrNECROS]



posted on Dec, 25 2004 @ 11:14 PM
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I am not a proponent of the bloodline theory. it is just something I want to carry my knowledge of further, one way or the other. Like you, I see too many of the same personages behind many events. If the bloodlines have no basis in reality, it is quite offensive that the many many people claiming it should show no proof. Like with so many things.



posted on Dec, 26 2004 @ 12:55 PM
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I have been researching the ancestry of the elite for a while now. As for Iluminati bloodlines, as far as I know there are none. From the little I have read of the Bloodlines of the Illuminati it is a load of bollocks. You would think if there are these bloodlines they would interbreed, but they don't. Also some of the so-called Illuminati families are not know to have royal ancestry. I have however discovered that there are a ridiculous amount of people in positions of power who are related to George Bush. I have some of this on my site - www.blue-blood.co.uk

although most of myinformation is not there, as I am using it for a book.



posted on Dec, 26 2004 @ 04:05 PM
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Just this once, I'm going to agree with Necros (I'll try not to make it a habit).


"Bloodlines" were of zero importance in the Illuminati. They were revolutionaries. They did not care who your daddy or grandpa were when they made you a member. They had bigger fish to fry.

The constant confusion concerning this whole mess is easily summed up: some people, especially conspiracy theorists, keep confusing wealthy, powerful elites with the Illuminati. This is sort of ironic because, the more wealthy and elitist a person was, the more likely he was to become anti-Illuminist. It was the wealthy, powerful elite who invented the anti-Illuminist conspiracy theories to further their agenda in the first place.

A look through the history of the Illuminati shows a few important details, most notable that the Illuminati members were neither wealthy nor politically powerful. Weishaupt and Mozart were often dirt poor; St. Germaine and Von Knigge had money, but most was confiscated from them by the Bavarian police, working under the Jesuit Electorate.

Cooper, in his book "Behold A Pale Horse", briefly mentions that he has chosen to call the wealthy elite "the Illuminati", although this elite group do not call themselves that. This is an honest admission I suppose, but has caused a lot of absurd hypotheses to arise among conspiracy theorists because they almost always confuse Cooper's "people who don't call themselves Illuminati but are in control" with the "people who did call themselves Illuminati".

Because they confuse the two, they aren't able to separate the facts, and almost always fall prey to the most ridiculous of nonsense.

It is certainly true that some families are very wealthy, and in turn possess a lot of political power. This doesn't demonstrate the conspiracy theorists' claim that some sort of vast international conspiracy is going on; perhaps the only thing it demonstrates is that there could be a better method of distributing wealth, which is a whole different topic.

So the average conspiracy theorists continues to contradict himself by thinking that opposites are in fact the same thing. For example, one conspiracy theory has it that the "wealthy elite" were behind communism. But this contradicts itself because the whole point of communism is to distribute wealth equally; indeed, it was communism that struck fear in the hearts of the wealthy elite like nothing else, and is why they launched their usual propaganda campaigns against it, using scare tactics.

There are many other examples that can be used, even with the historical Illuminati, but hopefully I've made my point clear enough without having to go into extreme detail. My only wish concerning all this is that, even if people choose to be conspiracy theorists for whatever reason (maybe it makes them happy or feel important?), they at least check the facts. Like the above mentioned case, I've heard many conspiracy theorists talk about Marx, but have never heard from one who has actually read Marx. Ditto on the Illuminati and Weishaupt, Pike and Masonry, and even JFK and the Warren Report.

[edit on 26-12-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on Dec, 26 2004 @ 07:20 PM
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I think that it makes the most sense that the term 'illuminati' is just a general term nowadays. I can't see how someone dirt poor could be a major player in this thing in modern times.

About communism, aren't all the 'enemies of freedom' that pop up through history to help further the agenda a means to an end? Even if it appears the elite are losing money, aren't they already rich as sin and playing both sides from the middle anyways? They have got to take one for the team once in a while, it adds credibility to the big lie.



posted on Dec, 26 2004 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by jenkwater
I think that it makes the most sense that the term 'illuminati' is just a general term nowadays. I can't see how someone dirt poor could be a major player in this thing in modern times.


That's precisely why they were revolutionary. The Illuminati believed that the Bavarian government was a usurpation, and that it should be overthrown, by force if necessary. Most of the Illuminati's doctrines were actually borrowed from the American Revolution. In fact, Weishaupt himself patterned the Illuminati after the Sons of Liberty, which was a secret society in the colonies that helped spur the Revolution. Many historians believe it was the Sons of Liberty who staged the Boston Tea Party.


About communism, aren't all the 'enemies of freedom' that pop up through history to help further the agenda a means to an end? Even if it appears the elite are losing money, aren't they already rich as sin and playing both sides from the middle anyways? They have got to take one for the team once in a while, it adds credibility to the big lie.


The basic theory behind Marxian communism is that capitalism is decadent and on the verge of collapse; it must, in turn, be replaced by a completely new form of society where all wealth is distributed equally. Because capitalism is the method whereby the wealthy get wealthy and stay that way, they will try to defend it.

According to Marx, while the wealthy get wealthier, the poor get poorer. And since the poor vastly outnumber the wealthy, eventually they will overthrow the capitalist order and establish what Marx called the "worker's democracy", i.e., a communistic society, meaning production based upon communal ownership of everything, instead of ownership of everything by just a few rich guys.

I'm of course not advocating communism, but just used this to make a point. The Illuminati were liberals. The Communists were socialists. Today's ruling elite are generally conservative reactionaries.

[edit on 26-12-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 04:24 AM
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Where is the proof?

I heard david icke say and many people. But where is the charts? where is the logic? to it?

I see bush as bristish/european.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 10:01 AM
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The Communist Manifesto is liberal, the Australian conservative party is called (I kid you not) "The Liberal Party", the word really has no meaning at all.
In fact I've decided that my Knight Rose Croix title should be "A Veritate Liberalis" (one of liberal truth)
I fell over laughing when I noticed this is a valid title according to "The Book."
But seriously, the Illuminati were a pack of two-faced Machiavellian liars, I'm sure they claimed to just be a bunch of wonderful people seeking peace, love and mung beans baby...but they were comprised mostly of petty minor royalty, financiers, lawyers and artisans...in short the scum of the earth.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
The Communist Manifesto is liberal,


The Communist Manifesto is socialist. Liberalism, by its very definition, promotes laissez-faire capitalism, which is considered the root of all evil in classical Marxism.



the Australian conservative party is called (I kid you not) "The Liberal Party", the word really has no meaning at all.


Classical conservatism (like that of Burke) is actually a form of liberalism, inasmuch as they promote capitalism and republican government instead of absolute monarchy and feudalism. The classical conservatives have a much different ideology than the so-called "neo-conservatives", which have adopted strains of fascism.


In fact I've decided that my Knight Rose Croix title should be "A Veritate Liberalis" (one of liberal truth)


You may want to write that one down. It'll probably be difficult to spell after you've been drugged again...


But seriously, the Illuminati were a pack of two-faced Machiavellian liars, I'm sure they claimed to just be a bunch of wonderful people seeking peace, love and mung beans baby...but they were comprised mostly of petty minor royalty, financiers, lawyers and artisans...in short the scum of the earth.


Known members of the Illuminati:

1. Adam Weishaupt (philosophy professor, philanthropist)
2. Baron Adolph Von Knigge (Lutheran evangelist, founder of free children's hospital)
3. Wolfgang Johannes von Goethe (considered the greatest poet in German history).
4. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (along with Beethoven, the greatest composer in German history).
5. Comte de St. Germaine (Christian mystic and Rosicrucian scholar, well known for philosophical writings on Alchemy).

Interesting that Necros calls these people "scum". I suppose that we just need to bow to his superior wisdom on the subject without questioning him. After all, he wouldn't mislead us now, would he?



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 11:48 PM
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as far as political labels are concerned, isnt' it all a farce anyways?

I have never heard mozart's magic flute, is it as revealing as I hear?



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 01:41 AM
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I don't believe the Illuminati exist anymore, and fell apart many years ago.
Nor do I believe they hold any power over the world or society at large.



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by jenkwater

I have never heard mozart's magic flute, is it as revealing as I hear?


In my opinion, "The Magic Flute" was a work of pure genius, second only to his "Don Giovanni".

In the opera, the story is told of a young man named Tamino who comes under sway of a witch called "Queen of the Night", which represents the Church. She tells him that her daughter Pamino has been kidnapped by an evil wizard named Sarastro, and that he must rescue her, which he sets out to do.

However, after meeting Sarastro, Tamino discovers he has been deceived by the Queen of the Night. Sarastro is not an evil wizard; in fact, he is Hierophant of the Illuminati, a group of sages who have dedicated themselves into ushering in a new order of liberty and brotherhood that is free from the tyranny of the Queen of the Night. He also discovers that Pamino was actually kidnapped by a servant of the Queen (this servant represents the absolute European monarchies, with Pamino representing Truth).

Before he can rescue her, he decides he needs the wisdom of the ages, and asks to be admitted into the Illuminati. Sarastro partially agrees, and tells him he can receive only the first two degrees; he may receive the third degree only after he has fulfilled his duty to rescue the princess.

There are 3 Illuminati Temples (one for each degree): the Temple of Wisdom, the Temple of Strength, and the Temple of the Sun. He passes the ordeals of the Temples of Wisdom and Strength, rescues the princess, and then is admitted into the Temple of the Sun for his final initiation.

At the end, the Queen of the Night is captured and brought before the Illuminati to stand trial for her crimes against humanity. She is found guilty, but Sarastro reminds the Order that each have taken vows to practice tolerance, and to return good for evil. Therefore, instead of being condemned, the Queen is simply exiled to the Fairy Forest, where she can live the rest of her life in peace and beauty, but without causing anyone any harm. This represents the separation of church and state.

The opera ends with Tamino, Pamino, Sarastro, and the other Adepts singing a hymn to the brotherhood of man under the fatherhood of God within the sacred halls of the Temple of the Sun.

Needless to say, this opera is beloved by Freemasons.





[edit on 28-12-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 09:17 AM
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Have we met somewhere?

Once while I was travelling to the E.....

Oops, back to the point.

I would be carefull saying that Masons LOVE that play, it's 50/50 at best my brother.

The Illuminati is a creation, just like the Priory of Sion......

We all want to believe don't we?

However, don't you think IF there is a higher power.......no comment

that they would know better than to assign a name to themselves? Lest they become the new version of the Oct 13, 1307 Templars right?

Just some words to chew on....


Off to the sun I go!!!




posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 10:17 AM
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have you heard of david iyke theory and seen his interview with credu mutwa, he believes that the bloodlines are of a reptillian gene, whereby reptoid aliens interbred with humanity in the ancient times and made the hybrids, which are then ment too be the same bloodline family.



[edit on 28-12-2004 by thexplorer]



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by ShiningWizard II

I would be carefull saying that Masons LOVE that play, it's 50/50 at best my brother.


It is an opera instead of a play, but I will certainly concede that not every Mason likes it. Indeed, many Masons would not understand it, and I'm sure many have never even heard of it. Unfortunately, great art these days is often ignored in the United States, and opera is no longer popular....our commercialistic culture is always ready to embrace the next Eminem and Britney Spears, while scoffing at true artistic genius, but I digress.

Nevertheless, Mozart's "The Magic Flute" has been praised time and time again by Masonic writers, and the opera itself was dedicated to Freemasonry.


The Illuminati is a creation, just like the Priory of Sion......

We all want to believe don't we?


I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Of course the Illuminati was a creation, as everything is. When I mention the Illuminati, I speak of the actual, historical organization founded by Weishaupt and Von Knigge, and not to the paranoid fantasies of the conspiracy theorists.

The Illuminati mentioned by Mozart in his opera is of course not the same as the Illuminati and Freemasonry to which he held membership, but was certainly based on them. Mozart's opera is a symbolic allegory of the powers of reason and enlightenment over superstition, and he found the inspiration for his ideas through his own involvement with Masonry and Illuminism.



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