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You miss the essence of the message that the Bible and the biblical Jesus was trying to tell.
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy
In all that, you forgot the rabbis who have the actual documented evidence.
What are you going on about?
Awen parroted the same old tired lie that "no serious scholar has EVER tried to claim that Jesus never existed." That's a blatant lie.
If you Christians can't even acknowledge that simple truth, that there are serious scholars that doubt the historicity of Jesus Christ, how are we supposed to have any kind of intelligent and honest conversation about the religion and its demands on its adherants?
Hmmm, so you deny the historicity of every event prior to Jesus and immediately after?
Where does the word Christian come from?
Christians were in the First Century in Rome, their name comes from.........?
Have I ever said that you have to believe or else?
Have you ever thought that I said that to you?
As far as derailing the thread, you must realize that when you make comments such as "His existence needs to be proven first" that you were the one who derailed it?
Now you tell us, if Jesus was non-existent, then HOW does He have a message that you can even point to in order to tell me I missed the message?
if Jesus did not exist and then our faith is based upon Greek, Roman and Egyptian Paganism..then the message of Love Thy Neighbor DOES NOT EXIST and I am no longer obligated to treat you any different than they did people then.
If the Biblical morality does not exist...then there is not one single one of Christians obligated to be nice, graceful, loving and forgiving, and then we can only act like your side. There is no more societal morality or obligation to fall back onto, because you have decided to remove it (intellectually in your own mind) there YOU have removed from us the obligation of love thy neighbor as thyself. And you can't even invoke any other god or deity, because EVERYWHERE that moral precept is taught, it has ALWAYS been from a religion.
If this comment seems harsh, remember, you removed Jesus from the equation, demanding that we do as well, therefore we can only act like you. Is that something you want?
Might I remind you exactly what religions the Romans followed at the time...the death cult of the Emperor was first, then every idol was sacrificed to. Venus, death cult, Nike, death cult, Dionysius, death cult, Mars, death cult....EVERY cult that had an idol, the Christians were forced to sacrifice to or be killed.
Sacrifices in Ancient Rome
Sacrifices to the gods were a fundamental votive practice. These could be as small and relatively insignificant as bread crumbs thrown into the hearth at home in honour of Vesta, through to say, a chicken to Jupiter or indeed several animals such as cows and so on. Clearly one would sacrifice as high a price as was required for the particular favour being asked of the god in question.
. . .
Public sacrificial ceremonies were state affairs which would generally take place in the Forum according to strict liturgy and hymns called "carmina". The value of the sacrifice would be in proportion to the State's needs. We can imagine whole herds of cattle being religiously gored at the sacrificial altar. Various cuts of the meat would be reserved for the gods whilst the rest would be eaten in one huge religious feast.
Should I do that wearing Nikes?
Romans were barbaric toward their own country fellows who did not burn incense to the Emperor.
And when they give their why, it usually is because of their view, which is not so different than the Romans, that we are incestuous cannibalistic barbarians.
A pinch of incense for Yaweh, is that too much to ask for also?
No grandstanding, no being martyred, this has never been about me. You have stated your desire to not believe in anything Christian and yet tell me to listen to the message of Jesus.
So I ask you again, what does it matter to you?
originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: Lightworth
Christians have to make sacraficed everyday. By being christian they give up there rights as rationale thinking human beings and on a daily basis have to reevaluate their truths based on new discoveries. They sacrafice their inner integrity everytime a debate arises asking for proof or a disbelief in faith.
They make truly great sacrafices but don't get the recognition they deserve
Forgot to thank you for the daily religious bashing thread...didn't realise it was that time in the day already.