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NO Unproved Blood Sacrifices!

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posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 08:43 AM
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originally posted by: klassified
a reply to: Krazysh0t
If I'm understanding the OP correctly...

The sacrifice of life made to defeat Hitler and Japan was necessary. While the sacrifice of Christ was unnecessary, and no better than the death cults before and after Christianity. Death cults Christianity condemned, of course. Not seeing their own hypocrisy.



I guess that makes a bit more sense, though I guess that supposition relies on Christianity being true or not. If the claim that Jesus dies for our sins is true, then that would make the OP wrong. As an agnostic, I think that is likely the case, but there wasn't a good enough reason established in the OP to convince us that is the case. It leaves the argument ambiguous.

Not to mention, we have no idea how the world would be different if Hitler won. What if the victory of Hitler prevented Stalin from sending tons of people to Gulags? It's all nice to say it retrospect, but was the Cold War necessarily a better alternative than what would have happened had Hitler won?

I'm not a Nazi sympathizer or anything, I just find the argument in the OP to be rather flawed. Hence why I called it a cheap shot against Christianity. Though I think his first paragraph could be a decent discussion if it were fleshed out better. Discussing true American sacrifices is a more entertaining thread than another bash Christianity thread (especially one like this).




posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 08:46 AM
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Sorry, OP, but I don't see a logical connection between your two paragraphs. This does come off as a cheap attempt to attack Christianity. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it...carry on.



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 08:51 AM
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originally posted by: Lightworth
the American way of life would have been destroyed


Oh no! No more fast food, american football nor black fridays.

What would the world become without the American way of life?



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: JUhrman

Your blatant use of stereotypes aside; I am very happy with my life in America. I have no interest in soccer, socialism or being ruled from Brussels.



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 09:00 AM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: JUhrman

Your blatant use of stereotypes aside; I am very happy with my life in America. I have no interest in soccer, socialism or being ruled from Brussels.


No, really, I'm really trying to understand what is this "American way of life" OP mentioned as being in danger. I think there was indeed an American dream at the beginning of the XXth century, but that dream has since turned into a nightmare IMHO. Individualism became egoism. Pursuit of happiness became hedonism and materialism. Exceptionalism became imperialism.

If anyone, you or OP can help me figure it out what this American dream is today, that would be great.
And I'm not even sarcastic this time.

Also Belgium isn't ruled by a socialist party :p
edit on 15-6-2015 by JUhrman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 09:17 AM
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a reply to: JUhrman

Everyone will give you a different answer. Propoganda sentence like fighting for freedom.



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus
Not quite ruled by Brussels but that's another topic.



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 09:23 AM
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originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: JUhrman

Everyone will give you a different answer. Propoganda sentence like fighting for freedom.


That's my point. I'm probably more free in Belgium than I would be in the US. There are more things I can do in Belgium and can't in the US than the opposite.

Also there are less cameras, less cops, less controls, less spying by the NSA, etc.

I'm not saying the US suck, just that I never understood this "American dream" because when you examine the current reality it seems the US are very far from it.



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: JUhrman
The American dream today is hoping that the LEO'S don't drop you in your sleep. Oh how times have changed.



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 10:24 AM
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...And this is why I said this thread is in the wrong forum. Little talk of religion and most of the discussion is about America.



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 11:28 AM
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originally posted by: Prezbo369
Yup human sacrifice or scapegoating is the key feature of Christianity, but they don't like to face up to that fact. The very symbol of their collection of beliefs is the tool used to torture a man to death.

There's a problem? Better kill someone inorder to make it all better.....


Yup.

And when "God" gets pissed off, he sends earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, droughts, etc....

State Rep Suggests Abortion Is To Blame For California Drought

Trees, animals, insects and sinners all must pay when "God" is pissed off!



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 01:06 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: klassified
a reply to: Krazysh0t
If I'm understanding the OP correctly...

The sacrifice of life made to defeat Hitler and Japan was necessary. While the sacrifice of Christ was unnecessary, and no better than the death cults before and after Christianity. Death cults Christianity condemned, of course. Not seeing their own hypocrisy.



I guess that makes a bit more sense, though I guess that supposition relies on Christianity being true or not. If the claim that Jesus dies for our sins is true, then that would make the OP wrong. As an agnostic, I think that is likely the case, but there wasn't a good enough reason established in the OP to convince us that is the case. It leaves the argument ambiguous.

Not to mention, we have no idea how the world would be different if Hitler won. What if the victory of Hitler prevented Stalin from sending tons of people to Gulags? It's all nice to say it retrospect, but was the Cold War necessarily a better alternative than what would have happened had Hitler won?

I'm not a Nazi sympathizer or anything, I just find the argument in the OP to be rather flawed. Hence why I called it a cheap shot against Christianity. Though I think his first paragraph could be a decent discussion if it were fleshed out better. Discussing true American sacrifices is a more entertaining thread than another bash Christianity thread (especially one like this).


How does that post make MORE sense when it's a shorter version of EXACTLY what I'm saying? Essentially all I'm saying is that Christianity obviously IS, in fact, based on human/blood sacrifice and it IS, in fact, unproved, not established as actual truth. Not my problem that my more fervent-than-usual lack of ENABLING Christianity -- along with all other organized/named religions, by the way -- is wrongly-dismissively referred to as a "cheap shot" or "bashing."



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: Lightworth

It's the way you wrote the OP. The first paragraph has a tenuous connection to the second. The first paragraph could be a thread on its own (hence why half the thread has devolved into talking about American exceptionalism), but you are trying to use it to establish your point for the thread (bash Christianity).

I can think of much better ways to disprove Christianity or highlight its hypocrisies. Trust me, I'm no fan of Christianity, as I'm sure some of the other members familiar with my username will tell you. So it's not like I'm a blind religious parrot or anything. I just think you have a poorly written argument all so you can make yet another thread saying that Christianity is fake.

I wish you would have stopped writing the thread after the first paragraph and stuck the thread in the US Political Madness forum. It would have been a much better discussion.
edit on 15-6-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 01:21 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

And I maintain that you're confusing style with substance, but we'll have to agree to disagree. There IS a valid comparison/contrast between proved sacrifice and the unproved kind, and I regret that I wasn't stylistically sound enough for you in its presentation.



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: Lightworth
a reply to: kenzohattori69

Was referring to America at the time. It's a whole other area of discussion on how the US basically became the Fourth Reich (Operation Paper Clip etc.) -- to quote Jim Marrs -- with the advent of the National Security Act/State in 1947. No argument on how terrible things are, and no support of the existing (secrecy-based) political world, though I feel certain an outright Nazi/Axis victory would have resulted in a worse and even more oppressive way of life, at least overall.

ADD: I'm gladly wrong about the amount of discussion here! I don't ever expect my threads to go into multiple pages anyway.


OHHH, you do realize at the time America WAS a very religious country?

Franklin Roosevelt turned this into a Socialist country, (proven by social legislation) and that we didn't go to war right away even though Roosevelt knew what was happening, we were still under the Isolationist policy. We didn't go to war overnight, but we were shipping so much grain and food to England to keep them starving.

Who sacrificed? Well, let's see, Americans in the bread and soup lines had the food taken from them, during the Depression, and it was sent across the Atlantic and was continuously attacked by Nazis, and even though the Nazis kept sinking our ships, we didn't go to war yet. England kept saying they could hold on.

Sacrifices at D-Day, could have been sooner if the USA had gotten involved early on. But we didn't think compelled enough about human rights of Jews, because the media kept telling the American public that Europeans were alarmists. So we didn't fight yet. But we kept sending food to England.

Sharks in American Waters

Not only did we send aid, as the cost of American starvation, we helped also to protect shipping from other countries. You are welcome United Kingdom....

My grandfather was in the Bataan Death March and a POW in the Philippines for 3 1/2 years. He was in the 201 CAC, Flint Company, liberated from Bilibid. We have forgotten the Philippine sacrifices for aiding the US, because we were there to aid them.

When we get to VJ Day, remember them as well.

EVEN in the midst of Germans attacking us, we still didn't go to war officially until December 1941. Had we gone sooner and had France not aligned itself with the Vichy, had Chamberlain not believed Hitler and took a harder stance against him, D-Day would have been sooner.

Even Charles Lindbergh, another celebrity, got caught up in German Nationalism. People listened to him, despite the fact that while he was in Germany, the Nazis were killing Jews. What did people want to hear? An American national hero say nothing is wrong in Germany.

You can blame the Bush family all you want, the truth is, even England was making money off the war, importing food to keep their people from starving at the same time the American public was struggling to come out of the Great Depression.

Again, United Kingdom, you are welcome. Oh, did you say thank you?

American farmers fed you at the expense of every starving American and every Merchant Marine who died defending the food being sent, did they know it was a sacrifice of Americans to keep you from going hungry, when your own farmers couldn't grow enough food?



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

However flawed and stupid (and even worse) the US government and others were leading up to D-Day, the Allied victory still beat the holy s#*t out of the alternative of goose-stepping, probably forcibly speaking German, and a North Korea-type cult of personality of praising and worshiping Hitler.

Here's hoping this thread can get back on the main topic: Death cult religions (and others) are wrong, lacking intelligence and morality.



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: Lightworth

YEAH!

Christians are stoopid and their religion sucks!

*fist bump*



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 02:03 PM
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originally posted by: Lightworth
a reply to: WarminIndy

However flawed and stupid (and even worse) the US government and others were leading up to D-Day, the Allied victory still beat the holy s#*t out of the alternative of goose-stepping, probably forcibly speaking German, and a North Korea-type cult of personality of praising and worshiping Hitler.

Here's hoping this thread can get back on the main topic: Death cult religions (and others) are wrong, lacking intelligence and morality.


I wasn't sure, because he was referring to D-Day, at the very anniversary of D-Day.

Yes, we were fighting the war on both sides of the planet. That's pretty good for a country who just came out of the Great Depression.

The OP didn't realize America was predominantly religious at the time, but there sure were a lot of American Christians praying for the victory in Europe. I would hope the OP would want someone praying for his victory if he had to undertake such an endeavor.



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 04:28 PM
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edit on 15-6-2015 by tzarchasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 06:18 PM
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I as a Christian just see this thread as another cap in hand member trying to earn a few flags and stars from all the atheists and agnostics who have become militant

Seriously, suggesting Christians put Christ on the cross, it was the Romans literally


originally posted by: Lightworthbut how much TRULY higher moral ground did they have when their own religion is ALSO based on unproved sacrifice?


The most evil that can be alleged at christians would be cannibalism, but then you would have to be a catholic to believe that, really its grape juice at communion, its not really blood, its metaphorical. In other words its not really blood, its to represent blood.

Talk of moral ground, christianity is based on belief that there is no moral ground for christians, thats why we turn to Christ.
You havnt put much thought into this have you

and then this

originally posted by: Lightworth
What purpose? To destroy Christianity and hopefully all religions?


Rants of a meglomaniac, Stalin had the same idea and so did mao and pol pot.

You are in the company of some very interesting people.

I read it a lot on these forums, people suggesting that others get some psychological help, seriously I have never said it but really.

Go get some unless this is just about stars and flags, then hey that's just sad







 
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