It IS something in the water... And it hurts everyone

a reply to: jinni73

Thank you! That's some great information and I'm so happy you shared.

Atrazine is indeed one of the worst offenders. It was referred to several times by names in my research.

a reply to: TrappedPrincess

Thank you.

Unfortunately, I'm not the only one. Too many parents have seen their child in distress because of the adverse effects of these substances -- many permanent, many debilitating, and far too often lethal -- and none of us should have to be suffering these consequences.

a reply to: and14263

Thank you for the links, which include the effects of other drugs -- like antidepressants and antibiotics -- also polluting our environment.

Something important we need to keep in mind from your second link:

Drugging our bodies inevitably drugs our environment, too, as many medications can pass through our bodies and waste treatment facilities virtually intact. And it is difficult to predict where and how unexpectedly vulnerable creatures may accrue potentially toxic doses.

The timing and amount of exposure can have far-reaching effects. Especially during certain points in gestation and during the onset of puberty, when our bodies are busy developing.

We need more research to understand how these outside influences change the normal processes -- and, therefore, the outcomes on both short- and long-term bases.

a reply to: Boadicea

I agree but I believe any research which stands against the pharma companies making money won't see the light of day. It is perhaps a good idea to kick start some crowd funded research.

originally posted by: and14263
a reply to: Boadicea

I agree but I believe any research which stands against the pharma companies making money won't see the light of day. It is perhaps a good idea to kick start some crowd funded research.

Thank you -- very astute observation!

I am going to write to the good folks at Environment 360 (the second link you provided earlier) and perhaps some others, suggesting exactly that. We need to loose ourselves from Big Pharma and Big Ag's regulatory capture stranglehold, take responsibility for our own health and welfare, and make a way where there is no way -- at least not presently.

a reply to: Boadicea

Thank you for your very well thought out presentation. Positive energy coming your way. This is just one of many issues that have been pushed under the rug and ignored. I think many things we have that cause medical problems have been done so on purpose for the express reason of making us "guinea pigs" and to experiment. The amount of German doctors and scientists that were given asylum here make me believe they are at the forefront and laid the groundwork for many of these medical experiments.

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: Boadicea

I think many things we have that cause medical problems have been done so on purpose for the express reason of making us "guinea pigs" and to experiment. The amount of German doctors and scientists that were given asylum here make me believe they are at the forefront and laid the groundwork for many of these medical experiments.

I have to agree. My dad and hubby are huge history buffs -- especially WW11 -- and they have both made the same connection. It's sad to consider -- nay, downright horrifying! -- but must be considered.

This is probably worthy of its own thread, but I want to post it and comment here, because it is relevant to this discussion.

The surprising ways Caitlyn Jenner and Rachel Dolezal are now linked

Based on the research I've done, and tried to present here, this comparison is downright ignorant and irresponsible, perpetuating myths and misrepresenting truths. It only serves to further divide people over under-researched and poorly understood biology. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I do know enough to call b.s. when I see it.

Unlike our "race," our reproductive organs and therefore all related bodily functions and processes are being bombarded with various chemicals and compounds with profound effects on a little understood system. These endocrine-disruptors work on various levels, at various times, in various ways that we do not fully understand. Some cause an "overdose," some cause a "deficiency," some block the receptors for even necessary amounts of appropriate hormones for physiologic processes, thus creating an excess that the body doesn't know what to do with, or which is mis-directed.

Male fish have been found with female eggs... how does that happen? We don't know. But if male fish can literally perform female sexual/reproductive functions, we cannot rule out the possibility that the same can happen to human men. Have any transgender men had their testes examined for the presence of female eggs? Have any women had their ovaries examined for male sperm? (Not that I could find.)

Consider gestation. All embryos begin as technically female (as I understand it). At a certain point in gestation, the embryo may begin to develop as a male... if excess female hormones are present, and/or male hormone blockers are present, what effect will this have? What if a female embryo is bombarded with male hormones or female hormone blockers? We just don't know. The same can be said about the changes during pubescence. We don't know what long-term effects these gender benders will have -- including long-term physical/mental/emotional effects.

Nor do we understand what the appropriate treatments can and should be, which will probably vary based on a myriad of factors. For example, some men/women whose systems have been compromised by the opposite sex hormones and/or same sex hormone blockers may benefit from treatment with same sex hormones. Others may not, as their systems have been compromised differently or to a greater extent. Is it a matter of degree? Is it a matter of the timing? The amount? We don't know.

These folks making such comparisons may think they are real cute and clever. They're not. It is only their own cruel ignorance on display. People are hurting because of these poisons. There's nothing funny about that.

a reply to: BoadiceaThis is exactly where I had hoped my thread here www.abovetopsecret.com... would go. Unfortunately, it turned into a big debate on LGBT rights and a name-calling closed-minded discussion about whether transgenderism should be considered normal or not.

For the past several days after I bowed out of the discussion, I began doing more research. I have found some interesting things, and may post them here instead of attempting to resurrect my thread with it. That thread has deteriorated too much, I think. I am convinced there is definitely "something in the water". I am going to read all the links you posted and others and hopefully this thread can stay on topic.

This is a discussion that NEEDS to be had, but there are too many loud voices that hinder it. There are too many activists trying desperately to keep the lid on something they don't want us to investigate. They just want everybody to accept that nothing is happening, but we know it is. Thanks for this thread.

originally posted by: Boadicea
This is probably worthy of its own thread, but I want to post it and comment here, because it is relevant to this discussion.

The surprising ways Caitlyn Jenner and Rachel Dolezal are now linked

Based on the research I've done, and tried to present here, this comparison is downright ignorant and irresponsible, perpetuating myths and misrepresenting truths. It only serves to further divide people over under-researched and poorly understood biology. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I do know enough to call b.s. when I see it.

Unlike our "race," our reproductive organs and therefore all related bodily functions and processes are being bombarded with various chemicals and compounds with profound effects on a little understood system. These endocrine-disruptors work on various levels, at various times, in various ways that we do not fully understand. Some cause an "overdose," some cause a "deficiency," some block the receptors for even necessary amounts of appropriate hormones for physiologic processes, thus creating an excess that the body doesn't know what to do with, or which is mis-directed.

Male fish have been found with female eggs... how does that happen? We don't know. But if male fish can literally perform female sexual/reproductive functions, we cannot rule out the possibility that the same can happen to human men. Have any transgender men had their testes examined for the presence of female eggs? Have any women had their ovaries examined for male sperm? (Not that I could find.)

Consider gestation. All embryos begin as technically female (as I understand it). At a certain point in gestation, the embryo may begin to develop as a male... if excess female hormones are present, and/or male hormone blockers are present, what effect will this have? What if a female embryo is bombarded with male hormones or female hormone blockers? We just don't know. The same can be said about the changes during pubescence. We don't know what long-term effects these gender benders will have -- including long-term physical/mental/emotional effects.

Nor do we understand what the appropriate treatments can and should be, which will probably vary based on a myriad of factors. For example, some men/women whose systems have been compromised by the opposite sex hormones and/or same sex hormone blockers may benefit from treatment with same sex hormones. Others may not, as their systems have been compromised differently or to a greater extent. Is it a matter of degree? Is it a matter of the timing? The amount? We don't know.

These folks making such comparisons may think they are real cute and clever. They're not. It is only their own cruel ignorance on display. People are hurting because of these poisons. There's nothing funny about that.

Sounds like an effort to side track the investigation once again. Maybe there is money and influence behind it. They have coined a new word to muddy the waters once again..."trans-racial". The next thing you know, they will be telling us that if you think you are black, then you have every right to be black.

The hormone, chemical, and pharmaceutical connection to gender confusion should not be allowed to be swept under the rug by being side tracked with these sensational comparisons.

a reply to: queenofswords

This is exactly where I had hoped my thread here www.abovetopsecret.com... would go.... [snip] ... I began doing more research. I have found some interesting things, and may post them here instead of attempting to resurrect my thread with it. That thread has deteriorated too much, I think. I am convinced there is definitely "something in the water". I am going to read all the links you posted and others and hopefully this thread can stay on topic.

I understand. I was a little afraid that this one would go the same way, but like you, having found some interesting things in my further research -- things I never expected to find -- I had to give it my best shot. If you can add to this thread and further a thoughtful discussion, that would be great and very much appreciated!

This is a discussion that NEEDS to be had, but there are too many loud voices that hinder it. There are too many activists trying desperately to keep the lid on something they don't want us to investigate.

Exactly what I'm seeing as well. Call me crazy, but I see a strong similarity between the bully tactics of the forced vaccination arguments with the transgender/transsexual treatment arguments... so I wouldn't be at all surprised to find Big Pharma behind it. Both are legitimate issues that require attention, but both issues (like sooooooo many others) are being hijacked with the loudest and angriest voices overwhelming reasonable discussion.

Thanks for chiming in. I'll be looking forward to reading whatever further you find and add. Thank you!

originally posted by: jinni73
a reply to: Boadicea
there are around 80 thousand chemicals being manufactured today from the legalised terrorist pharmaceutical and chemical companies 75 thousand of these are found in Sydney's water supply so I imagine this is the standard all over the world this was proven in 1999 by a Sydney university.

Vertical farming is the answer if you live in a flat and don't have the means to use a greenhouse.

You can soak the fruit and veggies to remove a big percentage of the chemicals in a sink with 2 ounces of white vinegar someone also suggested adding in sea salt (must have the ingredients listed on the packet as normally you are just getting table salt from the sea) for 20 minutes do this with organic as well as normal most of the organic farms are owned by big business and they are pretty much all controlled by the same people that are trying to depopulate us even the good organic farms use natural pesticides which are still bad for us.

When I tell people that homosexuality and all these other new ones, transgenders, and the other new one they've come up with now, are not natural and not normal, people get angry with me and tell me people are born that way. A little more insistance from me, and they change their mind to it's their choice. So I say, which is it, they are born that way or they choose to be that way?
Peoples minds are filled with so much filth, lies and propaganda, they don't know what to think anymore and can't think for them selves anymore, so they just repeat whatever bull# they hear or read in the media.

I have a male cousin, who when we were younger, was as straight as they came. He's the one who showed me my first porn magazine. But by the time he was 25, he was "gay".
How does one go from being heterosexual, highly interested in the opposite sex, to being gay in his mid-20's?
I know this is just one example, and others say they are gay from a young age. A
It's all got to do with the chemicals we are being poisoned with. Very few believe me, even less will listen.
But the evidence is out there, there are experts out there who know and have spoken about it.

But, because it's not part of the "entertainment" the average person receives from those in control, it therefore must not be true. Because the media and government would never lie to or manipulate the people now would they.


The big question is, what can we do to avoid ingesting or exposure to these chemicals as much as possible?
You say use vinegar or sea salt. Obviously it comes prepackaged from a factory.
That is one point where they can "get to us".

Start your own vege patch? It's getting harder and harder in Australia, as you would also know, with smaller and smaller back yards. And now there's a big push in all the major capitals here for high density living in towers. Sydney and Melbourne are already way ahead in that regard to Adelaide Brisbane and Perth, but even in Perth and little old Adelaide there's a big push for high density living..even in the suburbs. There just isn't any room and it just isn't convenient for people with their daily work/life situations. Some will make the effort, most wont because they can walk down to Coles or Woolies and now Aldi to get what they need. If the packaging says its organic and natural, it must be true and it must be good for you, right.

What can we do to eat "clean"?

That's a question that's been on my mind for the last few years and I can't see a work around to the poisons they are feeding us.
If you go buy some seeds in those small paper packs, how do you know they aren't genetically modified?

But of course, this feeling of helplessness and being trapped is what they want. It's part of it, because if you feel you are helpless to do anything to stop them from poisoning you, then you will give up trying to fight, and just accept it. You will see everyone else just going with the flow, and distracted wit h celebrities and other bull#, and you'll just zone that stuff out and be another sheep.

a reply to: Boadicea

There are so many allergies today amongst young people too, when I was growing up all my peers ever got was measles and the chicken pox in elementary school other than that everybody was generally healthy.
The amount of mental and emotional disorders is increasing exponentially as well, one 17 year old was telling me all her female classmates were on something to help them mentally and emotionally, this is not good.

One insurance company reported it's drug prescriptions for mental and emotional health went up 85% in 10 years.

Combine that and think of all that being pissed back into our eco system. Very bad

a reply to: fyrebyrd

I believe I have found a possible high-level mode of BPA exposure based on links given in the thread.

From that state ment by NIH Director Linda S. Birnbaum

subtle disruptions of endocrine signaling is a plausible mechanism by which chemical exposures at low doses can have effects on the body.

Homeopathic ultra-low doses have endochrine-disrupting effects on the total body.

From that Dirty Dozen article, #1 is BPA

thermal[receipt] paper is often coated with BPA

Receit paper is quite ubiquitous for every cashier and anyone who takes a receipt when they buy a thing at a store.

So, just how much exposure is there?


1 microgram/liter = 1 part per billion

graph source here Holding Thermal Receipt Paper and Eating Food after Using Hand Sanitizer Results in High Serum Bioactive and Urine Total Levels of Bisphenol A (BPA)

Many times I find that I put a receipt in my pocket along with the change. So, there being a BPA drenched sheet of paper in my pocket, which can be a moist environment especially in the summer season, and I may forget about it until I find it in the dryer.

Now its been thouroughly heated and rubbed all over my freshly "clean" clothes.

My exposure with that one single receit has gone way off the charts. To think of all times that has happened to me...

Now I have to imagine if I had a baby, it would be at risk of constant endochrine-disrupting chemical exposure just from me having a receipt in my pocket. My hands touching it's skin and transfering trace ammounts of BPA to it's infant blood.

Thank you so much for the links and discussion. I'm going to print off some of this stuff for my brother since he just had a baby 4 weeks ago. He is absolutely not of the predisposition to recieve such information like this from me; in fact, none of my family or friends are either. I have to try, though.

a reply to: Boomorangatangarang

Yeah,I had heard reciepts are a nasty source of BPA.

Another source I stumbled upon was the expoxy resin called "Araldite."
It states that BPA is given off when the two parts of the glue is mixed together(it does have a foul smell).

The stuff is everywhere it seems.
You have to wonder why it is still being used when there is knowledge of how nasty a substance it is.
Maybe some have an agenda they are trying to fulfill.
More gender bending chemicals in the environment = less births maybe?

originally posted by: mortex


When I tell people that homosexuality and all these other new ones, transgenders, and the other new one they've come up with now, are not natural and not normal, people get angry with me and tell me people are born that way. A little more insistance from me, and they change their mind to it's their choice. So I say, which is it, they are born that way or they choose to be that way?

I don't think there is just one answer. There have always been gay -- and probably transgender -- people, so it cannot be completely unnatural, nor all from man-made sources. I've read many theories. Studies have shown that during and immediately after wars, women tend to give birth to more girls, and of the boys born, more are gay. Is this a natural response to the horror of slaughter and killing? Perhaps defensive surges of estrogen -- a female body's way of protecting her young from the horrors of war? We don't know. The wikipedia page on transgender males noted that one cause may be the disruption of androgen receptors during gestation (which could come from natural as well as man-made sources). We must also consider combinations of factors. For example, could in utero effects be compounded or solidified by the use of BPA-laden plastic baby bottles? If someone could do a study, would we find that bottle-fed babies are more likely to grow up gay or transgender? How about disposable diapers as opposed to cloth diapers? The problem as I see it is that we are sooooo bombarded with these chemicals from every direction that we don't know where "natural" ends and "man-made" begins.

Peoples minds are filled with so much filth, lies and propaganda, they don't know what to think anymore and can't think for them selves anymore, so they just repeat whatever bull# they hear or read in the media.

And that's why we're here, right? We may not have all the answers, but we can use our thought and reason and words to discuss and disseminate the very important information that the industrial terrorists and bought-and-paid-for politicians don't want us to know.

But, because it's not part of the "entertainment" the average person receives from those in control, it therefore must not be true. Because the media and government would never lie to or manipulate the people now would they.

I am cautiously optimistic that the veil is being lifted. Everyone has now been adversely affected by the PTB in one way or another. Once people see one chink in the armor, that's all it takes to look for and find more chinks.

The big question is, what can we do to avoid ingesting or exposure to these chemicals as much as possible? ... [snip]... What can we do to eat "clean"?

Reverse-osmosis water is a good start. Those who cannot afford an in-house system can buy RO water pretty cheap -- just bring your own bleach wipes to clean the spigots.

For produce, there are various options, though the most convenient ones are the worst. Growing our own produce is a start. Big beds aren't necessary. Even a few potted plants on a porch or in a sunny window can provide an abundance of fresh produce. Of course, we cannot grow everything ourselves, but we can barter. My neighbor and I planned our gardens so we are growing different things, and we will trade off with other as we harvest. There are organic and heirloom seed companies working hard to preserve non-GMO seeds. We can shop at farmers markets. We have CSA boxes (Community Supported Agriculture) that allows you to purchase a share of a farm's crops, which is delivered to your home or picked up at a regularly scheduled place/time. We can also prepare more of our own foods, rather than rely on pre-packaged foods. It takes a little more effort, more planning, etc., but it can be done. As more people become aware and demand better for their families, the options will increase. People are quite creative and resourceful when given the chance (and/or necessity demands it!).

But of course, this feeling of helplessness and being trapped is what they want. It's part of it, because if you feel you are helpless to do anything to stop them from poisoning you, then you will give up trying to fight, and just accept it.

Exactly!!! Which is why it's so very important that those of who do see the worst happening... those of us who do see a better way... we must -- MUST -- keep fighting the good fight. WE are the answer. And it scares the holy bejeebers out of the PTB... or the PTW as my son prefers to think

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: Boadicea

There are so many allergies today amongst young people too, when I was growing up all my peers ever got was measles and the chicken pox in elementary school other than that everybody was generally healthy.

This is very true. The last couple of years, I've noticed many people being affected by hay fever that have never had allergies before. One important thing I learned with my son is that after an allergy attack, we need to take extra Vitamin B6, which is depleted by an allergy attack. If not, we are then more susceptible to and less able to fight allergens. I'm a firm believer in the health/healing properties of proper nutrition. Unfortunately, our foods are not just tainted with various poisons, our soil is depleted of nutrients and minerals, resulting in less healthy produce, and therefore meat. Another good reason for small-scale farming as opposed to Big Ag and their poisons.

The amount of mental and emotional disorders is increasing exponentially as well, one 17 year old was telling me all her female classmates were on something to help them mentally and emotionally, this is not good.

One insurance company reported it's drug prescriptions for mental and emotional health went up 85% in 10 years.

My kids have been out of high school for 10+ years, but even then a counselor told me that 75% of their students were on some kind of psychoactive drug. I was shocked but not shocked. Counselors had tried to tell me that my straight-A honor student son was autistic... why? Because he dared to run for class prez on a platform challenging some new policies at school. (He won). Maybe he does fall somewhere on the autistic spectrum... he didn't talk until he was 3, and then it was in complete perfectly pronounced sentences. (Shocked the hell out of his nana!) He has always approached life a little differently. But he is a responsible, practical and productive adult who functions very well in society... albeit in his own way. Maybe that's the REAL problem... which makes one wonder about other kids diagnosed with mental/emotional disorders, eh? If you don't fit in this box, we're gonna label you and medicate you until you do!!!

Combine that and think of all that being pissed back into our eco system. Very bad

Yes, indeed, and it's virtually impossible for any of us to fully understand the total implications.

When Does It Happen

Exposure to a wide variety of endocrine disrupting chemicals ever-present in the environment produces disruptions to the fetal endocrine system which can produce numerous developmental anomalies, including varying degrees of gender dysphoria

Communication between the central nervous system and cells of the body are, in part, controlled by hormones which act as chemical messengers to direct the activity of cells. Endocrine disrupting chemicals behave much like natural hormones, but interfering signals result in erroneous decisions at the cellular level because the cell's receptors accept both endocrine disruptors and natural hormones as valid signals, albeit with different strength.

Hormone disruptors appear to interfere with sexual development by affecting normal communications between the hypothalamus, pituitary, and gonadal glands. Chemicals modulate (up or down) the reception or secretion of hormones in any of these glands change the concentrations of hormones which have been programmed by genetics produced by the fetus during development.

Endocrine disruptors in the fetus change this "correct" value to some value which is not programmed by genetics. Hormones from an external source, and many commonly used chemicals and materials have properties which are estrogenic, anti-estrogenic, androgenic, and anti-androgenic. These chemicals can also affect enzymes which amplify the effect of hormones, and they occur in nature.

Factors of Toxicity Involved Multiple chemical exposures in humans are today the rule! Combinations of the 100,000 chemicals manufactured by man can multiply the effects of a single hormone disruptor by up to 1,600 times Synergism occurs when the effect or response of a combined exposure of two or more chemicals is greater than when they are added.

Bioaccumulation is the inability of the body to excrete certain chemical. In the field of toxicology, developments in the last decade have highlighted the reproductive, behavioral, and anatomical effects of endocrine disruptors on animals exposed to these chemicals.

Effects due to endocrine disrupting chemicals are observed at concentrations as low as parts per trillion for animals in the laboratory, indicating that the fetal endocrine system is more sensitive to disruption than any other known body system.

Another interesting source pertaining to scientific discoveries about endocrine disruption and the fact that common contaminants can interfere with the natural signals controlling development of the fetus is HERE

a reply to: queenofswords

Thank you!

Hormone disruptors appear to interfere with sexual development by affecting normal communications between the hypothalamus, pituitary, and gonadal glands.

I think it's also very important to understand that it is not just reproductive organs which are affected... virtually every organ and biological function performed is affected via these glands, and I would also add the adrenal gland. The sexual/reproductive issues may be the most easily observed and most readily traced back to these hormonal influences, but it affects our bodies on multiple levels, in multiple ways.

I'm so sorry to hear about you're daughter

However I'm grateful you posted a link to a article about the Gardasil vaccine I was supposed to get the vaccine earlier this year but changed my mind and decided to wait for a similar vaccine coming out about November and it worries me what sort of problems this new vaccine could cause.