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I entirely agree. What I postulate is even worse is that the US has apparently intentionally violated agreements previously made with Russia about the expansion of NATO. So, for example, I'd read that when the USSR came apart they made an agreement to withdraw from the eastern bloc countries if the US and NATO agreed that NATO wouldn't expand eastward of East Germany.
Then, years later, NATO takes in Poland.
I don't believe its unreasonable for Russia to want to maintain a buffer between Russia and NATO.
And Ukraine? Ukraine, or "Kiev" was traded to Russia in the 1700's by Poland. Putin is historically correct when he asserts Ukraine is a "modern" fiction. Western Ukraine is Polish and Eastern Ukraine is Russian.
Like you, I'm really tired of US bumbling about in Eastern European foreign affairs. Its a dangerous area, made more so for the US because the US government doesn't have any history with the area whatsoever.
I am clearly talking about the USA trying to interfere with the relationship between Russia and Europe by putting military hardware onto European soil in order to be used to fight Russians with.
The point you make about the Crimea in a later response to Britguy bears out the problem between Ukraine and Russia in that the Crimea has a huge Russian population who want to retain their relationship with Russia - which they democratically voted to do. Do we allow democracy to be denied when it doesn't suit American politics?
Glazyev, speaking on the sidelines of the discussion, said the exact opposite was true: "Ukrainian authorities make a huge mistake if they think that the Russian reaction will become neutral in a few years from now. This will not happen."
Instead, he said, signing the agreement would make the default of Ukraine inevitable and Moscow would not offer any helping hand. "Russia is the main creditor of Ukraine. Only with customs union with Russia can Ukraine balance its trade," he said. Russia has already slapped import restrictions on certain Ukrainian products and Glazyev did not rule out further sanctions if the agreement was signed.
The Kremlin aide added that the political and social cost of EU integration could also be high, and allowed for the possibility of separatist movements springing up in the Russian-speaking east and south of Ukraine. He suggested that if Ukraine signed the agreement, Russia would consider the bilateral treaty that delineates the countries' borders to be void.
I stick to my point that America is interfering with the intention of creating mischief which will effect trade and relationships in Europe.
What I postulate is even worse is that the US has apparently intentionally violated agreements previously made with Russia about the expansion of NATO.
But is there any truth to these claims? Over recent years countless records and other archival material has become available, allowing historians to go beyond the interviews or autobiographies of those political leaders who were in power during the crucial developments between the fall of the Berlin Wall in November 1989 and the Soviet acceptance of a reunified Germany in NATO in July 1990. Yet even these additional sources do not change the fundamental conclusion: there have never been political or legally binding commitments of the West not to extend NATO beyond the borders of a reunified Germany. That such a myth could nevertheless emerge should not come as a surprise, however. The rapid pace of political change at the Cold War’s end produced its fair share of confusion. It was a time where legends could easily emerge.
Then, years later, NATO takes in Poland. I don't believe its unreasonable for Russia to want to maintain a buffer between Russia and NATO. And Ukraine? Ukraine, or "Kiev" was traded to Russia in the 1700's by Poland. Putin is historically correct when he asserts Ukraine is a "modern" fiction. Western Ukraine is Polish and Eastern Ukraine is Russian.
Like you, I'm really tired of US bumbling about in Eastern European foreign affairs.
originally posted by: Britguy
a reply to: OccamsRazor04
There you go with the "Russian Invasions" stories again.
Russia has NOT invaded any states. The examples you give are patently false.
Georgia was the instigator of it's own troubles after it shelled the two neighbouring breakaway republics and the Russian peacekeepers stationed there. Probably thought the US / NATO would step in and save them, but it didn't happen. After slapping them down, the Russian forces pulled back again, hardly an invasion!
As for the mythical invasion of Ukraine, again, it didn't / hasn't happened except in the rather warped minds of those on here that keep repeating it.
originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
Remember we were asked to help in Ukraine by the Ukraine government...we aren't the ones who invaded
Asked to help by the government installed through the back door by STRATFOR.
This is not the first time you have made this bizarre statement. At the risk of further thread drift, why do you think STRATFOR, which is a private "think tank," had anything to do with Yanukovych's flight and the election of a new government in Kyiv?
Now your men are in charge they invite you in.................. along with Saakashvilli and a host of other foreigners.
originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Britguy
So I gather you'd call the British sector and then there's the French, an 'occupation'?
The Marshall plan? The debts forgiven?
That's some 'occupation', Bro.
A totally unprecedented era of peace in Europe following, oh what, 2000 years of unending wars??
The ME has NOTHING on Europe as far as wars goes, either. The 'peace' has been soley due to the "U.S. occupation".
Personally. I'd pull every single U.S. aid/troops out of Europe and the ME and be done with you wankers. A pox on all of you...
The only, and I mean ONLY, reason not to do that is once you guys go at it again...and you would, you'd on your knees yet again pleading for U.S. help and we'd stupidly do it again....
My contempt...
originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: ufoorbhunter
Now your men are in charge they invite you in.................. along with Saakashvilli and a host of other foreigners.
Really, because the candidate the US backed didn't win, and the one who did was voted in by the people of Ukraine...and it was done democratically, as was the parliament.
originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: Daedal
I wish the USA would butt out of this stupid and inflammatory action. Its because America doesn't want a good relationship between Europe and Russia and neither does israel.
Or maybe it's because Russia keeps invading people.
originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: ufoorbhunter
Asked to help by the government installed through the back door by STRATFOR.
This is not the first time you have made this bizarre statement. At the risk of further thread drift, why do you think STRATFOR, which is a private "think tank," had anything to do with Yanukovych's flight and the election of a new government in Kyiv?
They all piss in the same pot.
Added to which the democratic government was overthrown in a STRATFOR derived coup
Poroshenko will never be truely representative of old Ukraine because a proportion of the people have refused to be ruled over by a western orchestrated and aligned government and have now gone their own way.
More may well follow this trend as Ukraine descends into a Nazi STRATFOR derived economic hell
The United States of America is about to put heavy weaponry in Eastern Europe.
[SNIPPED].......... fine carry on, it won't hurt me in the UK apart from a few occasional bus bombs etc.
Encircle China with your "pivot" yes go for it if that makes you happy, the Chinese aren't going to hurt me, but please leave the Russians alone in their backyard.
I don't want to die in a nuclear exchange because you couldn't help yourself but encroach further on the Russian border.
STRATFOR is always in the thick of it. Added to which Friedman probably has scores to settle with the Russians for forcing him out of his homeland