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U.S. Is Poised to Put Heavy Weaponry in Eastern Europe

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posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 08:30 AM
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a reply to: TonyS


I entirely agree. What I postulate is even worse is that the US has apparently intentionally violated agreements previously made with Russia about the expansion of NATO. So, for example, I'd read that when the USSR came apart they made an agreement to withdraw from the eastern bloc countries if the US and NATO agreed that NATO wouldn't expand eastward of East Germany.


Not true. George H.W. Bush assured Boris Yeltsin that the United States had no plans to extend NATO any further than Germany and Poland. That was neither a treaty nor a promise, just a statement of the United States'opinion. Leaked cables confirmed that the United States resisted expanding NATO into the Baltic for fear of antagonizing Russia.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Then, years later, NATO takes in Poland.


Takes? You mean Poland begged to join NATO. If you knew anything about the history of the region, you would know why. The former Soviet satellites are the most enthusiastic members of NATO.


I don't believe its unreasonable for Russia to want to maintain a buffer between Russia and NATO.


Which means that once a country is forced to leave NATO, Russia can expand and demand a new buffer state. Remember the proverb about the camel?


And Ukraine? Ukraine, or "Kiev" was traded to Russia in the 1700's by Poland. Putin is historically correct when he asserts Ukraine is a "modern" fiction. Western Ukraine is Polish and Eastern Ukraine is Russian.


And in the early medieval era, much of what is now ruled from Kyiv, which proves that all of Russia belongs to Ukraine, right? Historical arguments are no better than convenient fictions. (Maybe Ukraine's blue and gold remind the Russians of the Swedish forces that defeated them there back in the 1600s.)


Like you, I'm really tired of US bumbling about in Eastern European foreign affairs. Its a dangerous area, made more so for the US because the US government doesn't have any history with the area whatsoever.


No Americans went to Russia to support the Revolution? Really? The United States never formed an alliance with the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany? Tadeusz Kościuszko is not as much a hero in America as he is in Poland and Ukraine? Where do you get your history from? The only thing that makes the area dangerous is Russian aggression.
edit on 14-6-2015 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-6-2015 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 08:47 AM
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a reply to: Shiloh7




I am clearly talking about the USA trying to interfere with the relationship between Russia and Europe by putting military hardware onto European soil in order to be used to fight Russians with.


It hasn't been a problem yet as the EU is Russia's biggest trade partner...

And the only reason they would be fighting Russians is because Russia has invaded those countries.



The point you make about the Crimea in a later response to Britguy bears out the problem between Ukraine and Russia in that the Crimea has a huge Russian population who want to retain their relationship with Russia - which they democratically voted to do. Do we allow democracy to be denied when it doesn't suit American politics?


Not according to Igor Strelkov, he was fundamental in the voting of the referendum. Which means it wasn't done democratically.



Also nothing changed the Crimeans relationship with Russia and signing the EU agreement wouldn't have either...one of many lies that Russia used as an excuse to annex Crimea, and you fell for it hook..line...and sinker.

Invading a Sovereign country is what America doesn't like...You seem to forget the fact that Putin was dealing hands out that if Ukraine denied them they would face severe consequences.


Glazyev, speaking on the sidelines of the discussion, said the exact opposite was true: "Ukrainian authorities make a huge mistake if they think that the Russian reaction will become neutral in a few years from now. This will not happen."

Instead, he said, signing the agreement would make the default of Ukraine inevitable and Moscow would not offer any helping hand. "Russia is the main creditor of Ukraine. Only with customs union with Russia can Ukraine balance its trade," he said. Russia has already slapped import restrictions on certain Ukrainian products and Glazyev did not rule out further sanctions if the agreement was signed.

The Kremlin aide added that the political and social cost of EU integration could also be high, and allowed for the possibility of separatist movements springing up in the Russian-speaking east and south of Ukraine. He suggested that if Ukraine signed the agreement, Russia would consider the bilateral treaty that delineates the countries' borders to be void.


www.theguardian.com...

This was in the plans as soon as Ukraine wanted to sign with the EU...something most Ukrainians want, remember Ukraine lived under Russian rule and do not want to go back to that, which is what caused the protests not the US.



I stick to my point that America is interfering with the intention of creating mischief which will effect trade and relationships in Europe.


Assumptions are good but facts are better...something that hasn't been proven when blaming the US for the trouble in Ukraine...but there are enough to show Russia's fault in this crisis.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: TonyS




What I postulate is even worse is that the US has apparently intentionally violated agreements previously made with Russia about the expansion of NATO.


Care to provide those agreements, because the US isn't able to speak for the whole of NATO. It doesn't work like that.

And there was no such agreement...


But is there any truth to these claims? Over recent years countless records and other archival material has become available, allowing historians to go beyond the interviews or autobiographies of those political leaders who were in power during the crucial developments between the fall of the Berlin Wall in November 1989 and the Soviet acceptance of a reunified Germany in NATO in July 1990. Yet even these additional sources do not change the fundamental conclusion: there have never been political or legally binding commitments of the West not to extend NATO beyond the borders of a reunified Germany. That such a myth could nevertheless emerge should not come as a surprise, however. The rapid pace of political change at the Cold War’s end produced its fair share of confusion. It was a time where legends could easily emerge.


www.nato.int...

But feel free to provide us with this agreement you say we signed?



Then, years later, NATO takes in Poland. I don't believe its unreasonable for Russia to want to maintain a buffer between Russia and NATO. And Ukraine? Ukraine, or "Kiev" was traded to Russia in the 1700's by Poland. Putin is historically correct when he asserts Ukraine is a "modern" fiction. Western Ukraine is Polish and Eastern Ukraine is Russian.


One thing you seem to be forgetting is the fact that up until the problem in Ukraine Russia worked right along side of NATO and even had their own minister that had his own offices within NATO...so they obviously didn't have a problem with NATO and it's taking in new countries.

If it wasn't for Ukraine Russia would never have been the federation they once were. Just because they consider themselves Russian...they are Ukrainians and have been since most were born.



Like you, I'm really tired of US bumbling about in Eastern European foreign affairs.


And eastern Europe doesn't want Russia interfering in their internal affairs such as Georgia and Ukraine. Remember we were asked to help in Ukraine by the Ukraine government...we aren't the ones who invaded the sovereign country of Ukraine, Russia did.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 09:18 AM
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originally posted by: Britguy
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

There you go with the "Russian Invasions" stories again.

Russia has NOT invaded any states. The examples you give are patently false.

Georgia was the instigator of it's own troubles after it shelled the two neighbouring breakaway republics and the Russian peacekeepers stationed there. Probably thought the US / NATO would step in and save them, but it didn't happen. After slapping them down, the Russian forces pulled back again, hardly an invasion!

As for the mythical invasion of Ukraine, again, it didn't / hasn't happened except in the rather warped minds of those on here that keep repeating it.


And they attempted to frame Russia for the shootdown of MH17.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 09:34 AM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
Remember we were asked to help in Ukraine by the Ukraine government...we aren't the ones who invaded


Asked to help by the government installed through the back door by STRATFOR. Now your men are in charge they invite you in.................. along with Saakashvilli and a host of other foreigners.

edit on 14-6-2015 by ufoorbhunter because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 09:43 AM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter


Asked to help by the government installed through the back door by STRATFOR.


This is not the first time you have made this bizarre statement. At the risk of further thread drift, why do you think STRATFOR, which is a private "think tank," had anything to do with Yanukovych's flight and the election of a new government in Kyiv?



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: DJW001




This is not the first time you have made this bizarre statement. At the risk of further thread drift, why do you think STRATFOR, which is a private "think tank," had anything to do with Yanukovych's flight and the election of a new government in Kyiv?



Because it is the only thing they have to fall back on, as every other conspiracy thrown out there hasn't panned out.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 09:51 AM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter




Now your men are in charge they invite you in.................. along with Saakashvilli and a host of other foreigners.


Really, because the candidate the US backed didn't win, and the one who did was voted in by the people of Ukraine...and it was done democratically, as was the parliament.

But keep bringing up STRATFOR as it only shows your research is fundamentally flawed.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: Britguy

So I gather you'd call the British sector and then there's the French, an 'occupation'?

The Marshall plan? The debts forgiven?

That's some 'occupation', Bro.

A totally unprecedented era of peace in Europe following, oh what, 2000 years of unending wars??

The ME has NOTHING on Europe as far as wars goes, either. All due to the "U.S. occupation".

Personally. I'd pull every single U.S. aid/troops out of Europe and the ME and be done with you wankers. A pox on all of you...


The only, and I mean ONLY, reason not to do that is once you guys go at it again...and you would, you'd on your knees yet again pleading for U.S. help and we'd stupidly do it again....

My contempt...



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Britguy

So I gather you'd call the British sector and then there's the French, an 'occupation'?

The Marshall plan? The debts forgiven?

That's some 'occupation', Bro.

A totally unprecedented era of peace in Europe following, oh what, 2000 years of unending wars??

The ME has NOTHING on Europe as far as wars goes, either. The 'peace' has been soley due to the "U.S. occupation".

Personally. I'd pull every single U.S. aid/troops out of Europe and the ME and be done with you wankers. A pox on all of you...


The only, and I mean ONLY, reason not to do that is once you guys go at it again...and you would, you'd on your knees yet again pleading for U.S. help and we'd stupidly do it again....

My contempt...




posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 02:07 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: ufoorbhunter




Now your men are in charge they invite you in.................. along with Saakashvilli and a host of other foreigners.


Really, because the candidate the US backed didn't win, and the one who did was voted in by the people of Ukraine...and it was done democratically, as was the parliament.


They all piss in the same pot. Added to which the democratic government was overthrown in a STRATFOR derived coup. Poroshenko will never be truely representative of old Ukraine because a proportion of the people have refused to be ruled over by a western orchestrated and aligned government and have now gone their own way. More may well follow this trend as Ukraine descends into a Nazi STRATFOR derived economic hell



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 02:58 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: Daedal

I wish the USA would butt out of this stupid and inflammatory action. Its because America doesn't want a good relationship between Europe and Russia and neither does israel.

Or maybe it's because Russia keeps invading people.

Russia is the one who keeps invading people?

You appears to be in need of a brush up on US foreign policy where we invade like we get paid for it.

Well....we do, actually.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 03:01 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: ufoorbhunter


Asked to help by the government installed through the back door by STRATFOR.


This is not the first time you have made this bizarre statement. At the risk of further thread drift, why do you think STRATFOR, which is a private "think tank," had anything to do with Yanukovych's flight and the election of a new government in Kyiv?


STRATFOR is always in the thick of it. Added to which Friedman probably has scores to settle with the Russians for forcing him out of his homeland



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter




They all piss in the same pot.


So your argument is they piss in the same pot...interesting because you can say it, but can you prove it?



Added to which the democratic government was overthrown in a STRATFOR derived coup


SO what exactly is a STRATFOR derived coup?



Poroshenko will never be truely representative of old Ukraine because a proportion of the people have refused to be ruled over by a western orchestrated and aligned government and have now gone their own way.


And yet here again the candidate the US backed lost...the candidate the Ukrainian people voted for was the winner not who the US put there.



More may well follow this trend as Ukraine descends into a Nazi STRATFOR derived economic hell


Ah yes the Nazi defense...why is that not surprising.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The United States of America is about to put heavy weaponry in Eastern Europe. This is beyond stupid even by the Bush standard. **snip** fine carry on, it won't hurt me in the UK apart from a few occasional bus bombs etc. Encircle China with your "pivot" yes go for it if that makes you happy, the Chinese aren't going to hurt me, but please leave the Russians alone in their backyard. Sure keep Poland plus the Baltics and Czech and Slovakia, they now belong to you. But don't try to take any more from the original Russian back yard. I don't want to die in a nuclear exchange because you couldn't help yourself but encroach further on the Russian border.

edit on 14-6-2015 by ufoorbhunter because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/14/2015 by seagull because: Removed unnecessary racial epithet.

edit on Mon Jun 15 2015 by DontTreadOnMe because: *** ALL MEMBERS *** Ending Rudeness, Hate, Bigotry: Getting Back to Basics



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter

The Russian border starts at Russia. They have absolutely no right to dictate to NATO-alligned nations who can come and go. Putin is not King of Eastern Europe, sorry to break it to you 'mate'.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 05:53 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter




The United States of America is about to put heavy weaponry in Eastern Europe.


Believe it or not they can do that if they please, but none of this would happen had Vlad not done what he did in Ukraine, and Crimea.



[SNIPPED].......... fine carry on, it won't hurt me in the UK apart from a few occasional bus bombs etc.


So exactly what does [snip] have to do with the topic of this thread?

Seems your showing the true you...good job.



Encircle China with your "pivot" yes go for it if that makes you happy, the Chinese aren't going to hurt me, but please leave the Russians alone in their backyard.


Hard to encircle China as I don't think the Russians would allow that from their land. Just to remimd you of something...Ukraine is no longer the Russians back yard so they don't have the right to do what they are doing in Ukraine.



I don't want to die in a nuclear exchange because you couldn't help yourself but encroach further on the Russian border.


Then you may want to take that up with the Russian government as they are the only ones talking about using nukes not the US.

edit on Sun Jun 14 2015 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter


STRATFOR is always in the thick of it. Added to which Friedman probably has scores to settle with the Russians for forcing him out of his homeland


Please start a thread and propound your theory, please. It will be very amusing.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

So by your definition the us has invaded some scores of countries in the last 50 years then, and Russia has 2? Surely they are agressive.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 08:26 PM
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originally posted by: Shiloh7bearing in mind those missiles and weaponry are there to threaten Russia?

How are defensive weapons a threat to Russia?



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