Iceland Recovering Fastest in Europe After Jailing Bankers Instead of Bailing them Out

a reply to: paraphi

Don't expect anyone to notice your post - I've mentioned twice now that the OP article is rubbish and Iceland has experienced a GDP contraction this year and they still carry on posting like the OP is true.

It goes to show, some on ATS only read what they want to read because it fits in with their world view.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: paraphi

Don't expect anyone to notice your post - I've mentioned twice now that the OP article is rubbish and Iceland has experienced a GDP contraction this year and they still carry on posting like the OP is true.

It goes to show, some on ATS only read what they want to read because it fits in with their world view.

Ahhhh - saying it twice makes your opinion true?

It may be rubbish to you - but not others.

originally posted by: fyrebyrd

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: paraphi

Don't expect anyone to notice your post - I've mentioned twice now that the OP article is rubbish and Iceland has experienced a GDP contraction this year and they still carry on posting like the OP is true.

It goes to show, some on ATS only read what they want to read because it fits in with their world view.

Ahhhh - saying it twice makes your opinion true?

It may be rubbish to you - but not others.

It's not opinion, it's fact - I linked to it earlier in the thread - clearly you didn't bother to look..

Iceland experienced a GDP contraction of 1.5% in Q1 of this year and is still 20-25% less than it's GDP of 2007, which is entirely contrary to what the OP article states which was that Iceland is experiencing the fastest growth in Europe (it isn't) and it's on course to be the first European country to get back to pre-crisis levels (it isn't)..

Of course, if you can provide any evidence to the contrary, fire away. I doubt you can though.

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: fyrebyrd

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: paraphi

Don't expect anyone to notice your post - I've mentioned twice now that the OP article is rubbish and Iceland has experienced a GDP contraction this year and they still carry on posting like the OP is true.

It goes to show, some on ATS only read what they want to read because it fits in with their world view.

Ahhhh - saying it twice makes your opinion true?

It may be rubbish to you - but not others.

It's not opinion, it's fact - I linked to it earlier in the thread - clearly you didn't bother to look..

Iceland experienced a GDP contraction of 1.5% in Q1 of this year and is still 20-25% less than it's GDP of 2007, which is entirely contrary to what the OP article states which was that Iceland is experiencing the fastest growth in Europe (it isn't) and it's on course to be the first European country to get back to pre-crisis levels (it isn't)..

Of course, if you can provide any evidence to the contrary, fire away. I doubt you can though.

1.5% is not a contraction - it is down from the projected 2.0 per quarter. Quarter resulting are not all that meaning up (if you had look at the supplemental material I added).

So - one word 'fastest' and you throw out the entire article? I guess it depends on what you mean by fastest. Your argument is not comprehensive. People has different opinions about the 'recovery' of Iceland.

I, for one, applaud what they have accomplished without grave and long-term harm to their population. It does fly in the face of Capitalistic Dogma - and that is the point.

Forgive me if I don't take you opinion to be fact. Even the IMF is impressed by their recovery.

a reply to: fyrebyrd

It was -1.5%. That's a contraction. Two quarters in a row and you have a recession. I fail to see what is so difficult for you to understand. They're not the fastest growing (the UK is) and they are not the first to hit pre crisis GDP levels (UK did so last year).

Once again, if you can offer any actual proof they're some.economic miracle, let's see it.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: fyrebyrd

It was -1.5%. That's a contraction. Two quarters in a row and you have a recession. I fail to see what is so difficult for you to understand. They're not the fastest growing (the UK is) and they are not the first to hit pre crisis GDP levels (UK did so last year).

Once again, if you can offer any actual proof they're some.economic miracle, let's see it.

I have.

Quarter thinking again.

GDP growth in Iceland over the last three years (or 12 quarters)



The total growth over that period is 7.3% with an average growth of .6% per quarter.

But again I will reiterate my point. Rather then bail out the banks, CEOS and forgein speculators the Icelanders choose to take care of their regular citizens in a manner that didn't not harm any one that was not 'taking a risk' in the first place and could afford it. It the process they learned a lot and their economy is much stronger.

I'm truly sorry that you cannot see beyond the next quarter or see the overall effect of history. It's that kind of tunnel vision that puts our planet and peoples at risk.

I for one am very happy to see this outcome for the Icelandic peoples and businesses and economy.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Awesome stunt. Even the IMF was impressed.

IMF Says Bailouts Iceland-Style Hold Lessons in Crisis Times

www.bloomberg.com...

Stay frosty, Iceland!

a reply to: paraphi

How come Iceland has the highest rate of anti-depressant usage in the world?

Sunlight. The less Vitamin D you have the more 'Vitamin Doping' you may need.

I am posing these questions to get us back to reality. Iceland is no State of Perfection because it jailed a few bankers for fraud.

I beg to differ. Successfully applied democracy is a state of perfection on its own, especially when dealing with financial institutions.

a reply to: stumason

Don't expect anyone to notice your post

Expect us.
We may forgive, but we never forget.

Obey a nice day now!

Iceland was also the only country to bail out their citizens, rather than bail out the banks.

I've said it before, that the best thing that can happen to boost the US economy is to forgive all Government held student debt.

Would cost about $1 trillion, which is about what they gave the bankers in 2008.

However, what you end up with is a ton of (mostly) professionally employed people, many of whom are in good high paying jobs, that suddenly find themselves with hundreds of dollars a month extra of disposable income, and mostly debt free.

You know what they'll do with that? They will BUY THINGS. In massive quantities. And you know what happens when people buy things? You have to MAKE THINGS for them.

When people MAKE THINGS, this creates massive amounts of jobs, and you know what happens? Those people with new jobs suddenly want to BUY THINGS and then need people to MAKE THINGS for them. At which point more jobs are created and ... you get the point.

A $1 trillion forgiveness of student debt would lead to a massive economic snowball effect.

originally posted by: fyrebyrd
I have.

Quarter thinking again.

GDP growth in Iceland over the last three years (or 12 quarters)

That chart you linked to shows their economy is anything but "miraculous" - they've had one recession in that period and if you pan out back to 2008, they've had 3 recessions.

originally posted by: fyrebyrd
The total growth over that period is 7.3% with an average growth of .6% per quarter.

No, it doesn't work like that. All you've done is add up the various growth figures (-0.7+4.3-1.6+1.3-0.7+3.9+0.4-1.9-0.6+4.2+0.2-1.5) and come up with 7.3%. Your maths is terrible, that's not how you work out growth over a period in percentages.

In fact, between 2012-2014, they achieved a growth of 3.8% - this is worked out by taking the GDP of 2014 (14.62 Billion USD) and dividing it by the GDP of 2012 (14.08 Billion USD), which gives us a result of 1.038 - meaning the GDP growth over the period was far lower than you'd have us believe with your grade school level mathematics.

Link - Iceland GDP

If we go back further, to 2008, we can actually see the current Icelandic economy is some 29% less than the pre-crisis peak. I'll explain that maths again for you - 14.62 Billion USD/20.43 Billion USD = 0.716.

originally posted by: fyrebyrd
But again I will reiterate my point. Rather then bail out the banks, CEOS and forgein speculators the Icelanders choose to take care of their regular citizens in a manner that didn't not harm any one that was not 'taking a risk' in the first place and could afford it. It the process they learned a lot and their economy is much stronger.

No, it isn't. It's yo-yoing between growth and contraction. There were fears of a "double dip" recession in the UK after the crisis which caused all manner of issues, but the truth is Iceland has had 3 full recessions since 2008 and several more singular periods of economic contraction.

originally posted by: fyrebyrd
I'm truly sorry that you cannot see beyond the next quarter or see the overall effect of history. It's that kind of tunnel vision that puts our planet and peoples at risk.

And I am truly sorry you lack the skill to be able to work out something as simple as percentages. Even your own chart shows that Iceland's economy is far from being robust or strong - you accuse me of "tunnel vision"£ but the truth is you want to believe this "economic miracle" garbage because it jives with your anti-capitalist, "stick it to the man" world view.

originally posted by: fyrebyrd
I for one am very happy to see this outcome for the Icelandic peoples and businesses and economy.

What outcome? Economic instability? Unstable employment levels?

a reply to: stumason

Just for fun, look at the German numbers and tell us again Icelands growth is Bullcrap?
www.tradingeconomics.com...

What outcome?

Ähm... peace, stability and dignity?

a reply to: stumason

Stumason, you know that GDP numbers can never be used to predict or point out as a fact the economical health of a country, they are a factor, but the overall economical recovery or downfall encompass other factors as well, perhaps their GDP is the real numbers in their country and to show that they are recovery regardless should be a flag as why you can not rely on GDP along.

Here in the US when GDP numbers are used they are also abused as numbers can look good in paper, but it doesn't mean the economy is recovering, the numbers are used to encourage consumer confidence but it is working? we are more in debt that ever, so to see a country that will not let their numbers be sugar coated is a good thing actually.

As for the OP that they jailed the bankers rather than bail them out I have to say, If we has done that here in the US we entire US government would have been jailed too

originally posted by: babybunnies
Iceland was also the only country to bail out their citizens, rather than bail out the banks.

I've said it before, that the best thing that can happen to boost the US economy is to forgive all Government held student debt.

Would cost about $1 trillion, which is about what they gave the bankers in 2008.

...[snip]...

A $1 trillion forgiveness of student debt would lead to a massive economic snowball effect.

I read a very similar suggestion at the time of the mortgage crises, that bailing out the homeowners -- rather than the banks -- would not only stabilize the housing market, but would lead to the same "massive economic snowball effect," as homeowners would have lots of extra $$ to re-infuse into the economy.

The basic proposal, if I remember correctly, was an immediate and full moratorium on residential foreclosures; then to re-write the jillions of adjustable rate mortgages to fixed rates ready to explode, thus stopping that source of bleeding immediately. Those who already had fixed mortgages would have their rates dropped one or two points. I believe principal reductions were also included to correct the artificially inflated market prices the loans were based upon. Since the vast majority of mortgages were owned by the Feds (i.e., US) by one govt agency or another, and the banksters only service the accounts, it would have been completely possible for Bush and/or Obama to do.

Instead, the banksters and politicians who created this mess were bailed out, homes were handed out like candy to the investor class, homeownership for primary residents has cratered, liar-loans are ramping up again, and most of America is still struggling.

Fraudclosure II is on the way... will we learn from our previous mistakes? I sure hope so but I'm not holding my breath.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Huh? You show me a much healthier set of GDP figures and somehow this relates to Iceland, how? And from a country who's GDP is actually larger than it was in 2008.

Not even remotely comparable.

a reply to: marg6043

No, but when the OP is based entirely on the Icelandic economic "recovery", "fastest GDP growth" and claims the "Icelandic GDP will be the first to get back to pre-crisis levels" then of course I am going to discuss the GDP.

a reply to: stumason

I see what you mean, I understand your point also.

a reply to: stumason

Huh? You show me a much healthier set of GDP figures and somehow this relates to Iceland, how? And from a country who's GDP is actually larger than it was in 2008.

Not even remotely comparable.

Funny indeed.
Nearly no set of 'data' is remotely comparable, at least that one you managed to nail.

"And yet there was a crying need at the time for support," she said. If the IMF hadn't tweaked its rules, "it probably would have meant no IMF support at that time."

www.wsj.com...

I didn't see you folks screaming "FRAUD" back then, did I?
And now... I present to you the lacking of any rudimantary logics regarding GDP-'values':

Poverty in Germany hits new high

www.wsws.org...

Just another set of data on the dark side of our GPD prasing 'financial markets'. You just happen to sing their song accidentally, I guess? Well... be proud and keep calm now:
nobody actually cares! Decent people don't stick to numbers only if they dare to understand decisions and repercussions.

A European court has cleared the Icelandic government of failing to guarantee minimum levels of compensation for UK and Dutch savers in the collapsed Icesave bank.

www.bbc.com...


Obey a nice day!