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Why do people lie about aliens? An in-depth look at why we can discredit near all stories
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a reply to: TrueMessiah
Are you even reading what you're saying. To be honest people need to get out of this fantasy. All you just rambled there was,
"If God wants to do this, he can do it at anytime, I mean he can just wrap up the universe and play basket ball with it."
You cannot speak on behalf of something you have no form of intelligence about. No one can, what you have done there is subject "ET" to our reality. "They can do what they want when they want" is essentially what you're saying. And if you see no flaw in that, you need to revise your thought train. You name "TrueMessiah" I assume you are of christian faith and believe in it. What is the difference between "God" and "ET"? According to the logic you use, nothing.
As for the case of witness testimony outside of your family, he's suggesting that: "If there's this beacon of light in the sky, coming to take someone, people would most likely witness this as the second coming of christ, or aliens" There's no way on earth you can have so many Christians who believe "The second coming will be soon" and yet when something which is what it is described to be happens everyone runs into hiding. People would assume "This is the heaven train" and agnostics such as myself would be out there as well looking in disbelief. But nah, only the abductee saw it cause everyone else was in bed by 7:42PM.
Are you even reading what you're saying. To be honest people need to get out of this fantasy. All you just rambled there was,
"If God wants to do this, he can do it at anytime, I mean he can just wrap up the universe and play basket ball with it."
You cannot speak on behalf of something you have no form of intelligence about. No one can, what you have done there is subject "ET" to our reality. "They can do what they want when they want" is essentially what you're saying. And if you see no flaw in that, you need to revise your thought train. You name "TrueMessiah" I assume you are of christian faith and believe in it. What is the difference between "God" and "ET"? According to the logic you use, nothing.
As for the case of witness testimony outside of your family, he's suggesting that: "If there's this beacon of light in the sky, coming to take someone, people would most likely witness this as the second coming of christ, or aliens" There's no way on earth you can have so many Christians who believe "The second coming will be soon" and yet when something which is what it is described to be happens everyone runs into hiding. People would assume "This is the heaven train" and agnostics such as myself would be out there as well looking in disbelief. But nah, only the abductee saw it cause everyone else was in bed by 7:42PM.
a reply to: TrueMessiah
Wait a second. The original comparison was someone in jail being compared to an abductee. Are they equivalent or not?
If you have equipment failure that correlates to UFO encounters, you are way ahead of the game. I just bought a hd wifi pan and tilt cam with 2 way audio for under 100 bucks that can be monitored remotely from anywhere. So I should be able to monitor exactly when the remote cam or network goes down and then turn on other remote cams or fly my drones over and....now if they disable all this electronic equipment, I should be able to get some idea of what their capabilities are. Point is if its interacting physically with our known technology, it can be measured. There is no excuse.
Are you actually suggesting it boiling down to stealing the method of transport which would be the UFO itself? That would be equivalent to the cop car from your comparison.
Wait a second. The original comparison was someone in jail being compared to an abductee. Are they equivalent or not?
What makes you think that rendering any simple electronic device would be an issue for ET when we have UFOs on record leaving automobiles inoperable and disabling entire control panels of fighter jets scrambled to intercept them?
If you have equipment failure that correlates to UFO encounters, you are way ahead of the game. I just bought a hd wifi pan and tilt cam with 2 way audio for under 100 bucks that can be monitored remotely from anywhere. So I should be able to monitor exactly when the remote cam or network goes down and then turn on other remote cams or fly my drones over and....now if they disable all this electronic equipment, I should be able to get some idea of what their capabilities are. Point is if its interacting physically with our known technology, it can be measured. There is no excuse.
edit on 15-6-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)
a reply to: ZetaRediculian
now that's an interesting thought Brother , has anyone from the prison community ever been abducted ?
I don't remember any story's floating about , but that's not to say that its happened
surely those in prison would make up a few story's ..
I wonder if there are any disabled prisoner's that might be contenders too, two in one shot debunking opportunity here me thinks
funbox
now that's an interesting thought Brother , has anyone from the prison community ever been abducted ?
I don't remember any story's floating about , but that's not to say that its happened
surely those in prison would make up a few story's ..
I wonder if there are any disabled prisoner's that might be contenders too, two in one shot debunking opportunity here me thinks
funbox
a reply to: SuspiciousTom
I think my response to you earlier needs reiteration:
I think my response to you earlier needs reiteration:
originally posted by: TrueMessiah
Tom I will admit, sometimes it's kind of hard to follow which direction you're going with some of your comments.
originally posted by: TrueMessiah
a reply to: SuspiciousTom
I think my response to you earlier needs reiteration:
originally posted by: TrueMessiah
Tom I will admit, sometimes it's kind of hard to follow which direction you're going with some of your comments.
As I've said, I stay neutral. I don't pick a side. Where there is a point to be made I will make it. As stated I believe in extraterrestrial life, intelligent too. But not interacting or having visit the earth, but I won't rule it out.
Arguing in absolutes without facts makes no real sense.
originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: TrueMessiah
Are you actually suggesting it boiling down to stealing the method of transport which would be the UFO itself? That would be equivalent to the cop car from your comparison.
Wait a second. The original comparison was someone in jail being compared to an abductee. Are they equivalent or not?
I thought the comparison made was being able to bring physical evidence back from either an abduction/arrest. A car was mentioned but that doesn't equate to an abductee being able to bring back a UFO.
If you have equipment failure that correlates to UFO encounters, you are way ahead of the game. I just bought a hd wifi pan and tilt cam with 2 way audio for under 100 bucks that can be monitored remotely from anywhere. So I should be able to monitor exactly when the remote cam or network goes down and then turn on other remote cams or fly my drones over and....now if they disable all this electronic equipment, I should be able to get some idea of what their capabilities are. Point is if its interacting physically with our known technology, it can be measured. There is no excuse.
Well looks like you got em there Zeta. Set up, signal out for an abduction then come back and lets us know the results. You will have the rare opportunity to turn the tide here. Your name will go down in the history books.
Nearly all UFO stories have indeed been "discredited". That was the whole point of BlueBook and Condon Report, though neither did a terribly good job
of it. Even these government programs specifically designed to debunk all sightings did little more than highlight the truely unexplaiable cases. OP,
youre doing no better.
a reply to: TrueMessiah
So there there has never been ANY physical evidence of an arrest?
Dont people get abducted multiple times? Wouldn't that make it a predictable event? 1 percent of the population even? None of them have thought of this? People set up security cams all the time for all sorts of reasons. Why wont this work? Because....? Bring on the angry sarcasm!
Your sarcasm is duly noted but why wouldn't it work and why has nobody tried it?
Interesting. So if I believe someone is being abducted and I give them the benifit of the doubt and try to do something, I should be mocked by believers? Why?
I thought the comparison made was being able to bring physical evidence back from either an abduction/arrest
So there there has never been ANY physical evidence of an arrest?
Well looks like you got em there Zeta. Set up, signal out for an abduction then come back and lets us know the results. You will have the rare opportunity to turn the tide here.
Dont people get abducted multiple times? Wouldn't that make it a predictable event? 1 percent of the population even? None of them have thought of this? People set up security cams all the time for all sorts of reasons. Why wont this work? Because....? Bring on the angry sarcasm!
Your name will go down in the history books.
Your sarcasm is duly noted but why wouldn't it work and why has nobody tried it?
Interesting. So if I believe someone is being abducted and I give them the benifit of the doubt and try to do something, I should be mocked by believers? Why?
edit on 15-6-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)
not everybody does, though for sure many do. also many may simply be certain of what thay saw but incorrect in their appraisal of it (planes, stars
etc). certainly the ufo lecture circuit is a very profitable and comfortable avenue for those that wish to deceive. however, the same platform may
also host people telling the truth.
edit on R2015th2015-06-15T12:52:17-05:0020150pm1654 by RoScoLaz4 because: spelling - blasted 'i before e,
except when it's not'.
a reply to: ZetaRediculian
im not bothered about the physical evidence ,
just one storey,.. surely prison guards talk , visitation time doesn't just entail the exchange of a few grams of h and a rockhammer, surely a few story's must have passed observed lips
" looks like a nice pie dear, o , btw , you'll never guessed what happened to me last night ;D"
funbox
im not bothered about the physical evidence ,
just one storey,.. surely prison guards talk , visitation time doesn't just entail the exchange of a few grams of h and a rockhammer, surely a few story's must have passed observed lips
" looks like a nice pie dear, o , btw , you'll never guessed what happened to me last night ;D"
funbox
originally posted by: Urantia1111
Nearly all UFO stories have indeed been "discredited". That was the whole point of BlueBook and Condon Report, though neither did a terribly good job of it. Even these government programs specifically designed to debunk all sightings did little more than highlight the truely unexplaiable cases. OP, youre doing no better.
Am I not? I have tried to provide perspective.
I don't know if people don't realize but please take a serious look into the patterns below. This is what happens all over..
"DEMAND UFO DOCUMENTS BE RELEASED BY FBI/CIA/GOVERNMENTS ALL OVER"
Government complies, nothing significant found? Simple: They with hold data
"THEY CAN'T RELEASE INFO OR THEY ARE KILLED OR BLAH BLAH HAPPENS"
People tell stories all the time they aren't killed, not to my knowledge at least.
"THEY TRY TO HIDE ALL STORIES HIRING DISINFO AGENTS, PROVING THEM TO BE NOTHING"
I am apparently a disinfo agent and I thought we killed those people who would speak out.
"I GOT ABDUCTED!"
What do you remember?
"NOTHING THEY WIPED MY MEMORY, IT HAS TO BE THEM I REACHED HOME 2 HOURS LATE"
Oh, losing track of time or daylight savings or just plain mistaking isn't a possibility
"NO, I KNOW WHAT I SAW"
So why couldn't it be us who may have abducted you?
"IT IS THE ALIENS I TELL U, EARTH ISN'T SPECIAL WE AREN'T ANYWHERE ON A TECHNOLOGICAL SCOPE"
We can manipulate memories with light: news.ucdavis.edu...
Did anyone else witness you getting abducted?
"JUST ME"
Now imagine that scenario of a child witnessing a dragon at a Chinese new year celebration festival.
Please, I'm not saying it's not possible but at least try to psychoanalyze yourself at the time and the things you may have been going through that's all I'm saying. Drift away from being a closed mind individual thinking you are always right.
Note.. My usage of "You" does not speak specifically to the person being quoted..
originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
So there there has never been ANY physical evidence of an arrest?
Umm...we're talking about a lack of physical evidence from abductions here. The main point is THAT will be harder to come by.
Dont people get abducted multiple times? Wouldn't that make it a predictable event? 1 percent of the population even? None of them have thought of this? People set up security cams all the time for all sorts of reasons. Why wont this work? Because....? Bring on the angry sarcasm!
Your sarcasm is duly noted but why wouldn't it work and why has nobody tried it?
I'm not angry, my mood is euphoric.
That's why we're counting on you. You can be the first to accomplish this. You know, with your WiFi pan, tilt cam, monitor, remote cams, and drones flying overhead. Looks like you're set to go so lets seek out any possible abductees who get taken repeatedly. Seriously, if I had that equipment, the time and a means to travel when/like I want to, I would conduct that type of experiment to see what happens myself instead of constantly asking why.
Interesting. So if I believe someone is being abducted and I give them the benifit of the doubt and try to do something, I should be mocked by believers? Why?
No one should be mocked but unfortunately, that's the case more often than not.
a reply to: TrueMessiah
You didn't close your italic...around "should".
So what's the point about prisoners that got arrested? They aren't the same, I guess.
The point is that this type of equipment is very inexpensive and available and easy to use. Just a few years ago, it wasn't so easy or cheap. Really has nothing to do with me.
The actual question is why wouldn't this work?
You didn't close your italic...around "should".
Umm...we're talking about a lack of physical evidence from abductions here. The main point is THAT will be harder to come by.
So what's the point about prisoners that got arrested? They aren't the same, I guess.
That's why we're counting on you. You can be the first to accomplish this. You know, with your WiFi pan, tilt cam, monitor, remote cams, and drones flying overhead. Looks like you're set to go so lets seek out any possible abductees who get taken repeatedly. Seriously, if I had that equipment, the time and a means to travel when/like I want to, I would conduct that type of experiment to see what happens myself instead of constantly asking why.
The point is that this type of equipment is very inexpensive and available and easy to use. Just a few years ago, it wasn't so easy or cheap. Really has nothing to do with me.
The actual question is why wouldn't this work?
edit on 15-6-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-6-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason
given)
a reply to: TrueMessiah
He stated that the action of removing an object from a police car would be impossible because of the constraints. Which would be equal to the constraints that you're placed in when abducted. The action of a suspect handcuffed and placed in the back seat of a police car stealing the car LINK LINK or LINK far outweigh the action of removing a simple object. Put a gun in the front seat in the same scenario and see what happens. To take it a step further, even a suspect handcuffed in the backseat with two officers in the car with him getting loose and killing the officers and taking their car has happened. If anything, it shows the poor comparison between the two by Scdfa. Or... you can choose to use my example to show it is possible to remove an object.
Scdfa can come up with any number of excuses of why he only has a story to tell. He can more or less do the same with his family. But he has involved several neighbors with his claim that they witnessed a UFO hover over his house during an abduction. That's the part I'm interested in. The greatest discovery in the history of Earth is right there in front of them. Still nothing more than stories? I can only excuse away a few inept decisions, but it becomes more difficult as you pile more witnesses on top.
I'm just curious. Do you believe his story based on actual evidence he has provided you, or on blind faith because you believe other abduction stories, so this must be true also?
Are you actually suggesting it boiling down to stealing the method of transport which would be the UFO itself? That would be equivalent to the cop car from your comparison. Now what would the average citizen even know about operating one? Well, we can strike that off of the list of things to steal. In fact, that should be the first strike. Sorry but cop cars are not equal to UFOs in terms of operation.
He stated that the action of removing an object from a police car would be impossible because of the constraints. Which would be equal to the constraints that you're placed in when abducted. The action of a suspect handcuffed and placed in the back seat of a police car stealing the car LINK LINK or LINK far outweigh the action of removing a simple object. Put a gun in the front seat in the same scenario and see what happens. To take it a step further, even a suspect handcuffed in the backseat with two officers in the car with him getting loose and killing the officers and taking their car has happened. If anything, it shows the poor comparison between the two by Scdfa. Or... you can choose to use my example to show it is possible to remove an object.
Scdfa can come up with any number of excuses of why he only has a story to tell. He can more or less do the same with his family. But he has involved several neighbors with his claim that they witnessed a UFO hover over his house during an abduction. That's the part I'm interested in. The greatest discovery in the history of Earth is right there in front of them. Still nothing more than stories? I can only excuse away a few inept decisions, but it becomes more difficult as you pile more witnesses on top.
I'm just curious. Do you believe his story based on actual evidence he has provided you, or on blind faith because you believe other abduction stories, so this must be true also?
a reply to: Blaine91555
Myself, integrity of truth and no hidden agenda behind what you know I have already stated in past.
HI Blaine, nice to see a familiar face!
Myself, integrity of truth and no hidden agenda behind what you know I have already stated in past.
HI Blaine, nice to see a familiar face!
a reply to: SuspiciousTom
Thank you for taking the high road as they say in your reply.
No time for explanations right now, but if we continue to meet in discussion topics some day I will give some details, but then it is as you imply a personal experience and nothing else will or should satisfy curiosity.
I too have never accepted anything but my own personal accounting. Taking full responsibility for ones experiences can be a lonely place as one does not care to have followers believing blindly, nor care for the exact same mentality in the opposite.
I love ATS and have grown so much in my short time here thanks to an open mind in all dimensions as well as some outstanding mentors on the forums.
Thank you for taking the high road as they say in your reply.
No time for explanations right now, but if we continue to meet in discussion topics some day I will give some details, but then it is as you imply a personal experience and nothing else will or should satisfy curiosity.
I too have never accepted anything but my own personal accounting. Taking full responsibility for ones experiences can be a lonely place as one does not care to have followers believing blindly, nor care for the exact same mentality in the opposite.
I love ATS and have grown so much in my short time here thanks to an open mind in all dimensions as well as some outstanding mentors on the forums.
a reply to: Phage
Phage the more I read the less I believe a word anyone has to say. Skepticism as you seem to resonate in familiar, takes an open expanse of energy both mentally, intellectually and even spiritually or in your case scientifically. Once a firm decision is made either for, against or neutral, it is a continuum of fact finding that has no beginning or end. True exploration of UFOlogy requires experience and repeat perspicacity. We have both witnessed lies, deceit and hoaxes over our years together as colleagues of sort.
Phage the more I read the less I believe a word anyone has to say. Skepticism as you seem to resonate in familiar, takes an open expanse of energy both mentally, intellectually and even spiritually or in your case scientifically. Once a firm decision is made either for, against or neutral, it is a continuum of fact finding that has no beginning or end. True exploration of UFOlogy requires experience and repeat perspicacity. We have both witnessed lies, deceit and hoaxes over our years together as colleagues of sort.
originally posted by: funbox
a reply to: ZetaRediculian
now that's an interesting thought Brother , has anyone from the prison community ever been abducted ?
I don't remember any story's floating about , but that's not to say that its happened.
Apparently not, but the converse, oddly enough, has
The male abductees, however, say they were abducted by former alien inmates from space jail and enjoy the (edit - you really didn't want to read that anyway - H.), which they dubbed "anal probing". Scientists are still doing hardcore research on teh subject until we have a reason for these intergalactic autrocities.
Righteous Source
Harte
edit on 6/15/2015 by Harte because: (no reason given)
a reply to: ZetaRediculian
From what I've read and heard, these experiences are rare in the scheme of things. They occur randomly and seem to be like switching from one state of reality to another. I can't speak to the veridicality of what such a reality represents so these comments are observational only; neither am I ready to push an explanation.
In Mack's books, the percipients (regressed or not) were typically sleeping when they became aware of an unfolding situation. There's a lack of free will and a sense of compliance in how they respond to such experiences. Where emotion is felt, an ability to be active and instrumental in the episode is generally absent.
They generally recount a situation that's imposed upon them. There are some accounts that involve walkabouts on 'spaceships' where the experiencer is full of questions and unable to physically (if such a term applies here) react in the same way they might in our standard reality. According to the literature and audio recollections, there's usually a sense of mind control or, at the least, some awareness of being restricted from natural reactions.
There's a dynamic difference in the accounts depending on which 'gatekeeper' presents/publishes the information. Mack's patients (if that's the right word) had an underlying positivity and those of Hopkins and Jacobs had an overwhelming negativity. Sprinkle's were more like Mack's and Dolores Cannon's in having a positive, spiritual element. How do we work that sh*t out? It looks like the researcher's interpretations are projected on the recounting of these second party recollections. This points towards self-deception or imposed deception.
It still leaves a sizeable number of people, from various social demographics, who reported such experiences and that alone is enough to tweak my curiosity.
Before I take myself off-point, the broad tapestry of these reported experiences don't appear to include free-will. We can't retrieve physical objects from dreams or hallucinations and, if real, experiencers can't retrieve them from whatever reality their abductions occur in.
Tyler Kokjohn has had a lot to say on these scenarios - a micro-biologist. He's offered sound solutions for proving the reality of abductions. For instance, if a woman is pregnant, there are residual biological markers that can be tested. This applies to all stages of pregnancy and 'should' provide evidence of the historical claims of abbreviated pregnancies. He's had no takers so far...
The 'ashtrays' argument is glib, in my opinion, even if it's popular.
Dont people get abducted multiple times? Wouldn't that make it a predictable event? 1 percent of the population even? None of them have thought of this? People set up security cams all the time for all sorts of reasons. Why wont this work? Because....? Bring on the angry sarcasm!
From what I've read and heard, these experiences are rare in the scheme of things. They occur randomly and seem to be like switching from one state of reality to another. I can't speak to the veridicality of what such a reality represents so these comments are observational only; neither am I ready to push an explanation.
In Mack's books, the percipients (regressed or not) were typically sleeping when they became aware of an unfolding situation. There's a lack of free will and a sense of compliance in how they respond to such experiences. Where emotion is felt, an ability to be active and instrumental in the episode is generally absent.
They generally recount a situation that's imposed upon them. There are some accounts that involve walkabouts on 'spaceships' where the experiencer is full of questions and unable to physically (if such a term applies here) react in the same way they might in our standard reality. According to the literature and audio recollections, there's usually a sense of mind control or, at the least, some awareness of being restricted from natural reactions.
There's a dynamic difference in the accounts depending on which 'gatekeeper' presents/publishes the information. Mack's patients (if that's the right word) had an underlying positivity and those of Hopkins and Jacobs had an overwhelming negativity. Sprinkle's were more like Mack's and Dolores Cannon's in having a positive, spiritual element. How do we work that sh*t out? It looks like the researcher's interpretations are projected on the recounting of these second party recollections. This points towards self-deception or imposed deception.
It still leaves a sizeable number of people, from various social demographics, who reported such experiences and that alone is enough to tweak my curiosity.
Before I take myself off-point, the broad tapestry of these reported experiences don't appear to include free-will. We can't retrieve physical objects from dreams or hallucinations and, if real, experiencers can't retrieve them from whatever reality their abductions occur in.
Tyler Kokjohn has had a lot to say on these scenarios - a micro-biologist. He's offered sound solutions for proving the reality of abductions. For instance, if a woman is pregnant, there are residual biological markers that can be tested. This applies to all stages of pregnancy and 'should' provide evidence of the historical claims of abbreviated pregnancies. He's had no takers so far...
The 'ashtrays' argument is glib, in my opinion, even if it's popular.
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