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Why do people lie about aliens? An in-depth look at why we can discredit near all stories

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posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 07:47 AM
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originally posted by: Harte

In what way, exactly, do aliens "dovetail" with the story?

Harte


Like I said, ignore the aliens explanation for now. If it wasn't aliens, then what was it? Do you think this family was lying? If so, why?




posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 09:58 AM
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I thought it was a good OP. From the perspective of skeptical, but that's okay. A healthy amount of skepticism, even in ones own experiences is useful. Question everything, even one's own most hardened belief.

I've had lots of experiences and have done a lot of research and experimentation.

If I'm honest, utterly honest, I still don't know what the hell we are dealing with. Only that it is something, that is not us.

That - stripped down to it barest - of what I know - still indicates something 'alien'.

It doesn't matter where it originates from, or how mundane it might end up turning out. From my perception, I was experiencing something unknown or "alien" to me.

But to say I've come face to face with ET, stood at the ship deck and looked down on Earth - like many claim. No. I cannot claim that honor. It has never happened in such a way, outside of waking up from a dream and saying, "Damn, it was a dream"...

CdT



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 10:09 AM
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originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: Harte

In what way, exactly, do aliens "dovetail" with the story?

Harte


Like I said, ignore the aliens explanation for now. If it wasn't aliens, then what was it? Do you think this family was lying? If so, why?


I actually just took a read of that story, and it's the question I ask.




Why would the Sutton family make up such an incredible claim? They made no money from the story, and did not seek any publicity. Why would they shoot holes in the walls of their home, causing a financial drain on the family to repair the damages?


That is the exact question. When this man summoned the police, who I would suspect are much further away than the gully that was 1/4 mile away which he had claimed these beings had landed. Why wouldn't he inspect there when the officers came? It would be the way to verify 'they' had left, as well as there were no reports of watching the beings leave. Most of these stories always come off that way, out in the wild and what not always 1 set of persons who witness it. People do actually use and abuse drugs and if you or anyone asks, well it's illegal of course they will deny it. Not everyone on drugs appear instantly not sober, I've have my fair share of experiences with weed.

Also, based on the reality we know, the reason why we've probably never seen a bear with a spear is because "claws" don't work like thumbs. Not saying it's impossible but based on the reality we know, claws are practically impractical when it comes on to advancing. Even our females who wear false finger nails experience a hard time with them.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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I think it is good to be sceptical of such stories. I can't help but refute the assertion that all people who tell of such experiences are "lying". I have had such experiences, and I will make no claim as to the nature of the phenomena (or nomena). I can only describe what I experienced - what I saw, heard, felt... what others with me also saw heard or felt.
That is no lie.

But any moment, any memory could be a false representation of objective reality, or a product of mental distortions, so I can't make any claims about anything concretely, really. Claiming this is my dog sitting next to me on the couch, and his fur is silky, and my son is on the couch in front of me playing guitar could be not true. But not a lie.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 11:56 AM
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originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: Harte

In what way, exactly, do aliens "dovetail" with the story?

Harte


Like I said, ignore the aliens explanation for now. If it wasn't aliens, then what was it? Do you think this family was lying? If so, why?

I didn't say they were lying. But given the conditions of how you framed the question, I'd say there are a multitude of reasons for them to lie, not the least of which is because they are too embarrassed to admit they saw a pair of Great Horned Owls.

Harte



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 12:05 PM
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originally posted by: coastlinekid
a reply to: SuspiciousTom

It all boils down to the fact that if ONE SINGLE incident is accurate,...JUST ONE,... then the JIG IS UP...

E.T.'s are real and are here... PERIOD...

Statistics and Probability don't lie,... all it takes is ONE SINGLE event to be accurate,...THATS ALL...JUST ONE...

WE ARE BEING VISITED...
The Probability that 100% of ALL REPORTED EVENTS ARE HOAXED OR MIS-IDENTIFIED is mathimatically infinitesimal...

Deal with it...

You don't get it. Here, let me put it this way to you:

Statistics and Probability don't lie,... all it takes is ONE SINGLE event to be accurate,...THATS ALL...JUST ONE...

GHOSTS ARE REAL...
The Probability that 100% of ALL REPORTED EVENTS ARE HOAXED OR MIS-IDENTIFIED is mathimatically infinitesimal...


Statistics and Probability don't lie,... all it takes is ONE SINGLE event to be accurate,...THATS ALL...JUST ONE...

JESUS IS REAL...
The Probability that 100% of ALL REPORTED EVENTS ARE HOAXED OR MIS-IDENTIFIED is mathimatically infinitesimal...

Enough?

Sightings or reports of things aren't enough. You need supporting testable evidence, otherwise lots of crazy s*** HAS TO BE REAL.

My only question is, assuming the evidence is presented:
1) Can or would humans try to hide it?
2) Will a sufficient number of them actually want to hide it or disregard it?

I think it's possible if there was only one or two cases it could be hidden. But there's a point where it becomes too difficult to hide it. And then there's the question of whether humans want to know? Perhaps humans have an instinctive desire to deny ET life?

But I've no convincing reason to think humans could/would hide it or want to. The closest thing I've found to at least draw my attention are:
en.wikipedia.org - Brookings Report...
archive.seti.org - How Our View of Ourselves Affects Our Beliefs About E.T....

Both suggest a remote possible reason it might be denied or hidden. Yet not enough. There's no strong reason for me to think it would be hidden or desired to be based on the above links. I have to think, on the contrary, ET's have simply not been here yet. Sure, maybe one or two cases were hidden, but why can't the same be said about Jesus Christ or ghosts? No, I have to think ET's have either evaded our awareness or aren't nearby for us to see. While this conclusion is tough to arrive at because it portrays many well meaning people as stupid or gullible or manipulative, many who I have known personally, nonetheless it's a reasonable one.

I'm not hte authority on this. So don't be offended.
edit on 14-6-2015 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: SuspiciousTom




It's a clear fact that there are quiet a few people who lie in regards to aliens and will go extreme distances to try and prove the gibberish that they say.


Long post, nothing to say. I'm afraid the gibberish is coming from you.

I have had direct contact with aliens, starting in 1966.
I'm not lying, and I'm certainly not going to any lengths to prove it to people like you.

And I'm pretty sure you meant to say quite a few people.
Let's see your evidence that there are more people lying about alien contact than telling the truth.
If you don't have any proof that what you say is true, and it isn't, wouldn't that make you the liar?

I'd parse this post piece by piece, but why bother, it's simply mean-spirited tripe, and shows a profound ignorance of the data regarding alien contact.

Next.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: SuspiciousTom




It's a clear fact that there are quiet a few people who lie in regards to aliens and will go extreme distances to try and prove the gibberish that they say.


Long post, nothing to say. I'm afraid the gibberish is coming from you.

I have had direct contact with aliens, starting in 1966.
I'm not lying, and I'm certainly not going to any lengths to prove it to people like you.

And I'm pretty sure you meant to say quite a few people.
Let's see your evidence that there are more people lying about alien contact than telling the truth.
If you don't have any proof that what you say is true, and it isn't, wouldn't that make you the liar?

I'd parse this post piece by piece, but why bother, it's simply mean-spirited tripe, and shows a profound ignorance of the data regarding alien contact.

Next.


There is pleny of testamony from quite a few people who have seen or experienced something other worldly so dont get bent out of shape by a few naysayers. I myself have seen a few things in my lifetime which I cant explain. So kudos to you for sharing your experiences with the rest of us. I thank you for sharing.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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I've had that waking up too. Goes away after an hour or two. Ofc, I don't think "abduction!" when I'm at the PC. Honestly that's a more likely expanation than aliens. But like you say perhaps it's a medical condition. Has it happened before?

And btw I agree some cases are hard to explain. There're just too many out there too. Like many say, only one has to be right. However, there're cases eyewitness accounts of ghosts and ESP. And yet how many people would agree ghosts are real? Probably not many. The end result is it needs strong supporting evidence, otherwise we may as well believe in vampires, mothman, demons and many other creatures.


Ghosts probably are real. Although, they are probably not the spirits of the dead. With all the discoveries being made in quantum physics and alternate realities and dimensions, there probably is a logical explanation for what people are seeing when they see a "ghost." Or.. could actually be the spirit of dead people.. we have no idea. When people experience the same phenomena over literally thousands of years, there is a fair chance there is some truth to it, even if it's not properly understood.

With UFOs, it's a lot simpler. It's technology they are seeing - and if it's not our planets technology, it came from somewhere else.

As far as the marks on the leg goes, no, has never occurred before. And of course, being 48, I've had plenty of times where I have had impressions left by something pressing against my skin, just like everyone else (and have woke up plenty of times with furrows or marks from the pillow, sheets etc.). This was not caused by blankets nor sheets, and there was nothing else in the bed (except my wife). I doubt anyone could replicate them with sheets or even purposely using an object of their choice if they tried. They were fairly deep impressions, but having had this occur to me, I can see where some folks who have odd things happen to them, get frustrated. Because people try to give them reasons why something happened, dismissing it without a thought as someone mundane, even if that mundane reason makes no sense.

And so many UFO sightings are dismissed in the same way. Just come to this site any time and watch how quickly people will dismiss UFO photos with ridiculous ideas. Literally within minutes. And then a dozen others do the same.. and they are all certain their logic is precise.. and yet, most of those peoples ideas differ from one another. They can't all be right. But they could all be wrong.

It's like when you dismiss the Phoenix lights case as flares (as many have), because further research or study is a bother. It's easier to just dismiss and forget it.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 12:33 PM
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originally posted by: JackHill
I stopped reading at 'discredit near all stories'.

Uninformed or just spreading disinfo?


Either way. Or both. It's poorly reasoned pablum either way.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: SuspiciousTom




but at this point in time our technology is literally limited by the money allowed, allow nasa 300 Billion and then see where we are in 2-3 years. So as i've said, I do believe there's life out there and sure you might have seen a 'UFO'(Unidentified Flying Object) but all this is to say: Don't underestimate your own kind.


Don't kid yourself. Alien contact involving flying saucers has been documented since the year 1920.

1920s alien encounters here in the US and in many nations in Europe as well. Sorry to hit you with the facts, but that pretty much negates your theory that these vehicles are our military technology.

Unless you are trying to claim that we invented flying saucer technology at the same time we were flying WW I biplanes?
More than twenty years before we invented the jet engine?
And we for some reason chose not to use that technology against our enemies in WWII?

Are you beginning to see how foolish your claim actually is?
We do.

edit on 14-6-2015 by Scdfa because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-6-2015 by Scdfa because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 12:53 PM
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originally posted by: Scdfa
I have had direct contact with aliens, starting in 1966.


Aaaand, let me guess - nearly 50 years of *direct* contact with aliens and all you have are interesting stories, is that about right?



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: SuspiciousTom




It's a clear fact that there are quiet a few people who lie in regards to aliens and will go extreme distances to try and prove the gibberish that they say.


Long post, nothing to say. I'm afraid the gibberish is coming from you.

I have had direct contact with aliens, starting in 1966.
I'm not lying, and I'm certainly not going to any lengths to prove it to people like you.

And I'm pretty sure you meant to say quite a few people.
Let's see your evidence that there are more people lying about alien contact than telling the truth.
If you don't have any proof that what you say is true, and it isn't, wouldn't that make you the liar?

I'd parse this post piece by piece, but why bother, it's simply mean-spirited tripe, and shows a profound ignorance of the data regarding alien contact.

Next.


Yes, I did intend to say "Quite"

Well, google the stories that actually make it to the media because they seem to have better evidence than just a baseless story by some people. Are most of them not hoaxes? Are you suggesting that there are more publicized true stories than hoaxes? From CGI to crop circles.

This post has not made mention to ANY specific story, I see no reason for some people to get so heavily aggravated. Is it a matter of being in denial where you want to believe that badly that you would parse everything that was posted and then come to the conclusion that "Near" is an insignificant word?

You've had encounters since 1966, then once again and then in 2000. Hopefully you'll have full surveillance set up to blast the world upon your next encounter.

I have not once in this thread said I don't believe in alien bodies nor contact. But I'm able to look at it from both perspectives while some of us seem to be stuck with tunnel vision. Similar to the faith of christianity "I had an experience you can't see it believe it or to hell with you." I am not the ignorant one here, sir.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 01:28 PM
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originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: SuspiciousTom




but at this point in time our technology is literally limited by the money allowed, allow nasa 300 Billion and then see where we are in 2-3 years. So as i've said, I do believe there's life out there and sure you might have seen a 'UFO'(Unidentified Flying Object) but all this is to say: Don't underestimate your own kind.


Don't kid yourself. Alien contact involving flying saucers has been documented since the year 1920.

1920s alien encounters here in the US and in many nations in Europe as well. Sorry to hit you with the facts, but that pretty much negates your theory that these vehicles are our military technology.

Unless you are trying to claim that we invented flying saucer technology at the same time we were flying WW I biplanes?
More than twenty years before we invented the jet engine?
And we for some reason chose not to use that technology against our enemies in WWII?

Are you beginning to see how foolish your claim actually is?
We do.


Again with what seems to be assault, dragons, ghosts, things that are 'different' from our realities have been stories from way before the 1920s, the reference would speak more to recent technology. We have trapped antimatter but are we using it? No, why? We haven't perfected the technology.

Technology gets tested many times but some of it doesn't surpass testing because it may be impractical or just not perfect. The logic you throw would suggest you MUST believe in God, Dragons, Ghosts and practically anything else that exists out there. Otherwise you should be able to objectively observe situations from another point of view.

Alot of things have been documented since the 1920s.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 01:34 PM
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originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: Harte

In what way, exactly, do aliens "dovetail" with the story?

Harte


Like I said, ignore the aliens explanation for now. If it wasn't aliens, then what was it? Do you think this family was lying? If so, why?

I didn't say they were lying. But given the conditions of how you framed the question, I'd say there are a multitude of reasons for them to lie, not the least of which is because they are too embarrassed to admit they saw a pair of Great Horned Owls.

Harte


Too embarrassed to admit they saw owls, but not too embarrassed to have people think they saw little aliens? Even years later? Again, I don't think a backwoods Kentucky family in the mid 50s would have too much trouble identifying owls.

I'm sorry, but try as I might, I can't come up with any sensible reason why this family would sit down and concoct this elaborate lie, making sure everyone was clear on all the small details and could draw the same creatures, so they could pack up in the middle of the night and drag the police back to their house. If anyone can, I'm willing to listen (and, admittedly, try to poke holes in the explanation if I can
)

That's why I like this case so much. It's simple witness testimony. No ambiguous video, no out of focus photo, no undetermined radar blip, nothing that could really be interpreted in different ways. Either they saw what they saw, or they didn't. If they lied, why? Mis-identification, of what? Owls and monkeys certainly don't match the drawings. Mass hallucination? I don't think so. To me, the most likely explanation is that they saw what they said they saw.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 02:01 PM
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originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
I'm sorry, but try as I might, I can't come up with any sensible reason why this family would sit down and concoct this elaborate lie, making sure everyone was clear on all the small details and could draw the same creatures, so they could pack up in the middle of the night and drag the police back to their house. If anyone can, I'm willing to listen (and, admittedly, try to poke holes in the explanation if I can
)


It's interesting - perhaps the difference between the skeptic and the non-skeptic. You view it as "I can't think of any other reason, so they must be telling the truth", where I see it as "there is little evidence to support their outlandish story - even though I don't know what really happened, their story seems dubious at best". It's an Occam's Razor sort of thing. It also in a way reminds me of the telephone game - given a starting point (nice innocent Christian family) and an outlandish ending point (terrorized by aliens), it's impossible to see how it got from point A to point B without seeing each step along the way. I think there's a lot we don't know, and I strongly believe that, if we did, it'd be one of those aha moments as to how point B came to be, and it would have nothing to do with aliens...



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: redtic

True, there is no real proof either way. It's just that the title of this thread suggests that all these stories can be discredited, and I don't see the Kelly-Hopkinsville story as being discredited. Unless someone can come up with a more credible explanation than maybe they were telling the truth.

Like you said, Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation to me is that they were telling the truth. Anything else gets pretty complicated.
edit on 14-6-2015 by VictorVonDoom because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 02:15 PM
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originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
a reply to: redtic

True, there is no real proof either way. It's just that the title of this thread suggests that all these stories can be discredited, and I don't see the Kelly-Hopkinsville story as being discredited. Unless someone can come up with a more credible explanation than maybe they were telling the truth.


Once again, the title states "near all".



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: SuspiciousTom

So it does. Reading comprehension failure on my part. My bad.



posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
a reply to: redtic
Like you said, Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation to me is that they were telling the truth. Anything else gets pretty complicated.


Yeah, big gap in our reasoning processes, but I understand your viewpoint. Them telling the truth is the simplest explanation for you because you accept that the ETH is probably true. I see the opposite, in that them telling the truth is *the* most complex explanation, because it requires me to accept that the ETH is probably true, and I just can't do that, for reasons I've stated - there are more mundane, terrestrial explanations that don't require me to stretch my acceptance of knowledge. I think it's as simple as that.




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