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The "Our poor is living better than the poor everywhere else" fallacy.

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posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 06:24 AM
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I hear, our poor live better than the poor in other countries, as well as people throwing up pictures of starving, sick kids from Africa and saying, this could be you be happy with what you have.

Well maaaaaaybe that's where we're heading, and that's what we're trying to stop? Should we all just sit around and wait til we're worse off than everyone else before we can be upset about our living conditions, about the way the economy is going, ect?

When exactly IS it bad enough that we as a nation's people are allowed to legitimately complain, and try to do something about our economic degradation? Our economy is crumbling around us, our livelihoods are going down the toilet, we're well on our way to becoming those poor kids in Africa if we don't get a reign on things.

Is that the goal, to have us all living like that? At which point, our complaining and attempts to change things would be irrelevant as we'll be too poor, weak, uneducated and malnourished to do anything about the state of our lives. Should we really wait til we have no ability to fight back left before we even TRY to better things?

Can we please stop using the it could be worse argument, it's a crap argument.

WE ALL KNOW IT COULD BE WORSE, and that's what we're trying to prevent, cause it IS GETTING WORSE.

Telling us how much worse it could get, when the current trend is a downward decline, is just further cementing how bad it can get if we do nothing to stop the way things are going.

Thank you for reading and sorry about this, but is an argument I see all the time that's really crazy and I felt needed to be addressed. Our economy is falling apart and sick of being showed how bad it can get if we do nothing and told to be happy we haven't fallen that far, YET.
edit on 6/12/2015 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/12/2015 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/12/2015 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/12/2015 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



+2 more 
posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 06:48 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove

Sad fact is while our economy's crumble around us the privileged few of our society just seem to get richer. Talk about the social divide it's more like a social chasm these days. And its only going to get worse.


+2 more 
posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 07:06 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake

You are completely right and I've been saying this for years. It's a very dangerous mentality to have.

The problem is, we are too caught up with work (which we need to do to eat) to attempt to risk the poor standard of living we already have for a better one.

People don't want to protest or riot because they'll get arrested and could lose their jobs - hence ironically being worse off.

This is the key problem. In that sense, we've lost as the people because we can't survive in modern society without the authority of someone else issuing you your pay.

The western governments are desperately trying to destroy our welfare states as well, because once this goes humans will have no choice but to work and that's really when things become hopeless for us.

It's terrifying because this is a real agenda based on managing humans like cattle and I cannot see a solution to it in our present state.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 07:11 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake
They don't seem to get richer. They are getting richer. To big to fail? No. To Big to exist.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 07:14 AM
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a reply to: DazDaKing

The solution is rather self evident if you ask me. A revolution is what's required, but it wont be bloodless simply because the chosen few at the helms of our financial institutions are never just going to roll over and return the power to the people. There agenda is in full swing and lets face it, is apparent to anyone with a eye to see. It will most lightly all end in tears, those tears being ours.
edit on 12-6-2015 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 07:17 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove
I'm afraid the folks with "I love capitalism" tattooed on their forehead will come along and state that anyone whose situation gets worse has only themselves to blame. They will state some anecdote about their own life to prove their point!

The WORLD, especially those countries with heavy dominance of markets by large corporations or families are getting worse and eventually it will collapse. Most definitely in our lifetime. The "have's" will have to hide behind huge walls unless the wealth of the planet is far far more evenly distributed. This can only happen if the economic model pursued by western countries for the last 200 years and the emerging third world for the last 3 decades changes completely.

When the middle classes become poor who is going to buy the goods to keep the rich rich?



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 07:27 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove

Spot on!

What people often overlook also, is that in the regions affected by abject poverty in less developed nations, rice and basic equipment costs very little. That does not help people there, because they have much too little to take advantage of it. However, in developed nations, basics cost an awful lot in comparison, and this places the poor in developed nations in no better a place than anywhere else.

Those suffering under the yoke of ANY system which prevents them from being socially mobile, to ANY degree, have a genuine greivance, and to think otherwise is the mark of someone who has never known what it is to be in that situation. These issues will plague our species until power is gathered about those whose virtues show them to be worthy of wielding it, rather than those individuals who merely accrue vast wealth at the expense of the many.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 07:41 AM
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originally posted by: Xeven
a reply to: andy06shake
They don't seem to get richer. They are getting richer. To big to fail? No. To Big to exist.



I think someone in control is planning on just that!

Projected American Population by 2025 down from 313 million to 65 million!



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 07:49 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove

maybe we're already there, they are just good as masking it over with the social programs? and well it's mainly the middle class taxpayers and small businesses that are funding these programs while the big corps get the perk of having tax breaks and shelters out the arse along with a driving force pushing their labor costs lower and lower. in other words, a nice little system to funnel even more money from the middle class to the upper class and corporates.
drop the social programs and let's see where we really are standing at, or if any of us are standing at all.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 07:51 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar

So... you want to combat poverty, by removing programs from the roster which are designed to keep people fed and watered when they are out of luck?

This is not going to work too well.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 08:08 AM
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I can't use any of the tabs on ats so can't copy this text into the boxes, but the phenomena

We are discussing is known as the race to the bottom
en.m.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 08:09 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

I think they're saying that without the social programs we'd already be at that poverty level, not to ditch them.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

slow deaths are oh so much more painful than fast deaths,
and well at least the business sector would be given a choice before it's too late, either fork over more of the profits or well die with the rest of us!

but no, I'm not really being that serious maybe just 50%, but really wish people would start thinking about it though, before it's too late, if it's not already too late. otherwise, the way it is now, it's gonna pull down the whole economy, possibly some of the 1%.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 08:47 AM
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I've traveled a bit in South America. There is extreme poverty there. I've never seen anything like that here in the US.

Poverty sucks.

I think people need to travel more, observe the world and help them formulate their ideas of the US after comparing it to other parts of the world.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 08:48 AM
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I don't think saying "it could be worse" is an argument at all, its more of a dismissal and an invalidation.

Poverty is a growing problem that doesn't always have an easy fix like the ever popular arguments "They should go to college!" or "They should get a better job!".

Its not always so black and white.

What if someone is disabled? Elderly? Can they magically become able-bodied, or get younger? Absolutely not, and that's why the "it could always be worse" argument is trash because some are already living their own worst nightmares in which there are NOT solutions.

It doesn't get much worse than that.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 09:01 AM
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Different cultures, different societies, different countries have different definitions for necessities and luxuries.

Is a cell phone a luxury or a necessity?

Computer?
Internet?
Television?
Cable/satellite?
Soda?
Tobacco?
Alcohol?



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 09:12 AM
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Things are getting worse across the board, yeah it's bad in other countries, some, not all, worse than the US, but frankly the world in general is suffering from this problem, the difference is, it's finally hitting us ourselves enough to really notice the world's plight because it's become ours as well.

So it's a downward spiral, in which we've finally noticed, while others have already fallen worse than us. So we can either wait to fall down with them, at which point, they'll still be worse than us, even when we hit where they are now, or we can do something about it.

Yes the world has a poverty problem a lot that's worse than here, but they didn't ALL get there overnight, and neither will we. It's a gradual decline.

Is like two people, one is 89, and one is 101 and both complain about being older and saying the one who's 89 isn't old cause some other guy is 101 and he should be happy with his youth. It's a complete absurdity.
edit on 6/12/2015 by Puppylove because: Grammar and Spelling



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 10:39 AM
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There are very few truly poor in America. It is all relative. I've mentored numerous underprivileged kids over the course of my life.

Nearly all still had three square meals, schooling, roofs over their heads, indoor plumbing, air condition, decent clothing, video games, cell phones, televisions, bikes, toys, etc. ALL OF THEM had a higher standard of living than my parents and grandparents.

What they didn't have though is stable homes with loving parents (usually the dead beat father was gone). Education was not pushed as a priority. They lived in areas where cultural dysfunction was the norm and as a result, despite having the basics, their lives still seemed hopeless.

Poverty is a state of mind in America.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 10:53 AM
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Just as a follow up to my above post. I have been to other countries and seen real poverty. I'll never forget visiting a sugar cane field in the Dominican Republic and seeing buck naked and barefoot kids running after our tour bus trying to get candy. Their parents worked in the fields. You could see the tin huts they lived in. I've seen nicer dog houses in American ghettos.

This is not to say that our poor don't have it bad, but a lot of it is mental. It certainly isn't material poverty. Throwing more money at it won't fix the problem. This is why you have new immigrants who come to America whose families go from janitors to brain surgeons within two or three generations. They know the opportunity exists and they don't let their immediate circumstances stop them.

We now have generational poverty where people are given handouts and aren't taught how to care for themselves anymore. We subsidize poor decision making.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 10:56 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated

We're living in a world that has undergone a technological revolution, one where we have abundant resources and technologies to make life better. It is also a fallacy to compare now to the past if also discounting the advances of technology, ect.

Life should be getting better for everyone across the board, we have the ability, power, and technology to make it happen. No one NEEDS to be poor anywhere, US or otherwise, we as a species have advanced far beyond such being necessary, the numbers all agree. So why is it everyone feels the need to argue not only against things getting better, but for letting them get worse?




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