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Breaking : Merkel phone tapping probe dropped

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posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 06:46 AM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

nypost.com...

www.washingtontimes.com...

www.bbc.com...

www.cnn.com...

A few articles that highlight both a) how everybody spies, or at least tries to, on everybody else including allies and b) how the U.S. is more capable of it than anybody else is right now.

Countries have been opening each other's "mail", official and otherwise, for hundreds of years. Pretending otherwise is silly.

And no, none of that is an excuse of the U.S.'s actions. But I think it's pretty silly to sit here and try and pretend everybody else isn't doing their level best to gather intelligence.




posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 06:57 AM
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a reply to: Shamrock6




And no, none of that is an excuse of the U.S.'s actions. But I think it's pretty silly to sit here and try and pretend everybody else isn't doing their level best to gather intelligence.

I don't think anyone is denying spying goes on even amongst allies but the tapping of a friendly leaders mobile is to my mind unprecedented , immoral and illegal .... at least in this part of the world.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if Snowden had revealed the situation in reverse , what steps or sanctions the US would taken.

If nothing else it shows that not only do they not trust us they don't even trust their allies .... what a sad depressing place this has become.

Is it time for a revolution yet ?



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 07:00 AM
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a reply to: gortex

As pointed out in the article, leaders know that anything they have on a phone, tablet, laptop, etc can, will be, and is targeted by foreign intelligence services.

I get your point. I do. It's a whole other level of invasion. But I think it's fantasy to say that others wouldn't do it if they could. I think many countries would dearly love to manage to bug an American president's phone. Can they? Don't know. Would they? If they thought they could get away with it? I think so.
edit on 12-6-2015 by Shamrock6 because: Typo



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 07:04 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

nypost.com...

www.washingtontimes.com...

www.bbc.com...

www.cnn.com...

A few articles that highlight both a) how everybody spies, or at least tries to, on everybody else including allies and b) how the U.S. is more capable of it than anybody else is right now.

Countries have been opening each other's "mail", official and otherwise, for hundreds of years. Pretending otherwise is silly.

And no, none of that is an excuse of the U.S.'s actions. But I think it's pretty silly to sit here and try and pretend everybody else isn't doing their level best to gather intelligence.



so...let me get this straight. You post links to bunch of Americans claiming everybody does it.

I guess that's proof enough. The whole reality of Iraq WMD's suddenly comes to full understanding. If America says you are...than you are. Case closed.

Whatever you think...unless you can prove it...you can shove it. God I love Snowden.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 07:23 AM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Sure man. You can sit there and think the entire world is polite and would never dream of spying on a foreign power in every possible way they can pull off.

Since I can't prove that they do it, well by God they aren't! Of course, it doesn't matter that I'm not an intelligence operative or analyst with easy access to "who's spying on whom today?" lists.

I think the whole notion that "well if you can't prove espionage it didn't happen" is, frankly, hysterical. You do know what espionage is, right?

Whatever man. Keep the rose colored glasses. Big bad America is the only one who would even dream of spying on a foreign power, much less do it.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 08:47 AM
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a reply to: Shamrock6




Sure man. You can sit there and think the entire world is polite and would never dream of spying on a foreign power in every possible way they can pull off.



We know politicians lie. And, in reality...everybody is just fine with that...in fact...we all expect them to. But the situation drastically changes once you're caught doing it. You go from speculation to fact...and that's when the game changes.

For this reason..it really doesn't matter who is doing it...until it becomes verifiable fact. Then, it makes a world of difference since false appearances are lost in that moment and there is shame and excuses...



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 09:00 AM
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posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

And we should all know, or at least expect, that intelligence agencies will do what intelligence agencies do.

Spy.

"Pics or it didn't happen" doesn't really apply to espionage. The whole point is to not get caught doing it. If that's the angle we're going to take about then we can just as easily say Merkel was never tapped because the German government didn't prove it in court. Hell, the investigator even says they can't prove it in a legally sound way. So now it's simply a supposed leak that is unverified.

Guess it never happened then.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 09:15 AM
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a reply to: Shamrock6




Hell, the investigator even says they can't prove it in a legally sound way. So now it's simply a supposed leak that is unverified.

Or there's little to be gained by Germany bringing a case against the mighty USA , what would it achieve in the end.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 09:19 AM
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a reply to: gortex

Could be but I mean, with the standard of proof asked for here, unless you can show me definitive evidence that somebody said it wasn't worth it, it doesn't count.

"Whatever you think you can shove..." Etc



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 09:28 AM
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originally posted by: gortex



This just tickled me in a special kind of way. You get a gold star



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 09:35 AM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

No need for evidence it's just common sense , all that could have been achieved already has been in the embarrassment caused to the US , a court case would just damage relations further.
There may not be enough solid evidence but we know what they did and that may prove to be enough.

It said "the vague statements by US officials about possible surveillance of the chancellor's mobile telecommunication by a US intelligence service - 'not any more' - are not enough to describe what happened''.

The prosecutor did not manage to obtain an original NSA document proving the alleged spying, and a transcript which purportedly re-created it from memory was deemed insufficient as evidence.


Hardly surprising they couldn't get the original document , it's like asking the accused to provide the rope you intend to use to hang them.

As a footnote.

Mass surveillance was a characteristic of the Nazi era and the communist East German state
www.bbc.co.uk...


How far we've come.



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 10:40 AM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Spying using diplomats and planted agents is one thing but tapping a persons private mobile phone is a criminal offence as some newspaper journalists have discovered to their cost over here , this is not politics it's paranoia.


Wrong...it's "Chicago Politics"



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: gortex

"No need for evidence. We know what they did."

Got it



posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 10:54 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: gortex

"No need for evidence. We know what they did."

Got it



'not any more'

They did it.




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