The unaffordable higher minimum wage fallacy

originally posted by: theMediator
a reply to: Edumakated

Well I'm surely happy life went well for you and of course like everyone with your mentality, it's ALL YOU. Nobody ever gave you help, it was all you alone that made it and everybody else are just stupid for not having the same VALUES that you had along the way.

We've heard that one before but it's not going to make it change my mind. The system sucks, we could, can and WILL do better when people work together for a more just society instead of thinking only about their selfish little selves and how THEY made it.

People helped me. When someone who was successful gave me advice, I listened. It really was that simple.

I had this conversation with a troubled kid I mentored. I asked him, "If I gave you a treasure map that had a pot of gold at the end of it, would you follow the instructions?" Of course, he was like yes! So then I asked him, "Well, why is it when I tell you to stay out of trouble, stay in school, and stop screwing around, you don't listen? I've given you the treasure map, but you won't stay on the path"

See the treasure map has been laid out. You guys just choose not to follow it.

I don't believe everyone will be a millionaire, but you can have a good living. Far too many people though are checkers players, instead of chess players. They can't see beyond one move so they don't know how to make sacrifices or position themselves for something bigger.

if you are trying to raise a family on a minimum wage job, you made some serious mistakes in your life. You can overcome those mistakes, but don't act like there weren't some self-inflicted screw ups along the way.

a reply to: daryllyn

Well it would enable more people to be able to spend more money on goods, services, and buy houses which in turn would boost the local economy by creating more opportunity for small business's like the one I own.

Generally speaking it would circulate more money on a local level.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

I'm not sure how to fix it, as I'm sure people would scream bloody murder if I suggested a cap on profits (ie; after a certain percentage of profit, the company is required by law to send it downstream to their workers). That would never fly -- it's wealth redistribution at it's simplest.

Simple is good. It's easy to explain and execute. Why not make everything over 100% profits split half between investor and workers? Workers could then use that money to nest egg for retirement. We are going to have an immense problem very soon once all the baby boomers hit retirement age. So many companies either don't offer 401ks or people don't have anything extra to put in them. They will all be looking to government to help them out. Trust me, social security ain't gonna cover it. If I were to live alone it would be on the streets or some flophouse. It's really all I can afford on SSDI.

Not everyone can be doctors, lawyers, programmers, CEOs, etc....

If they were... who would take out the trash?

Why are we still pretending that low wage and minimum wage jobs aren't an important part of the work force?

originally posted by: daryllyn
Not everyone can be doctors, lawyers, programmers, CEOs, etc....

If they were... who would take out the trash?

Why are we still pretending that low wage and minimum wage jobs aren't an important part of the work force?

No one said they aren't important. The argument is the monetary value of certain jobs. Often times the perceived importance of a job does not reflect the monetary value. I personally think athletes and actors are over paid. However, in a free market, their value is derived by the scarcity of their talent and the revenues they generate.

There are communities where fast food workers make $15/hr because it is hard to find workers, not because that is what the restaurant prefers to pay.

No amount of government intervention can override basic supply and demand laws.

a reply to: Edumakated

Well I hate to break it to you but the free market clearly isn't working. In fact, it isn't working for 99% of the world so maybe we should try something else

a reply to: Edumakated

They still deserve a minimum of a livable wage.

I don't have a lot of confidence in management, high-paid people or CEOS.

I'm CONSTANTLY having to explain to people several pay grades above me how to do something that should be a routine part of their jobs, as per their job description.

These people make 2-3 times per year what I make, and for some reason can't do the simplest of tasks. I have no idea how they got the jobs they have. No idea.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

At least we know the communities that have a Wegmans in them will have more money circulating in the local community making those communities more prosperous.

Its a great thing.

a reply to: daryllyn

OK, basic fact of American life in 2015...

Profits aren't going to go down. That is something which simply is not an acceptable option to any business. You either mandate a living wage and accept the fact that the price of all goods and services will increase alongside those wage increases (not only "resetting" the baseline and putting the lower earners in an identical situation in short order, but also dragging the middle and upper middle classes down with them) or you do a total 180 degree shift and nationalize all business in the United States, imposing price controls on everything.

As far as reducing/eliminating the need for financial assistance and welfare goes, that is also entirely dependent on how you view it. Taxes won't go down, that's for damn sure. Instead everything purchased will see a price increase commensurate with the low end wage increases. That means, in addition to paying 25% of earnings towards taxes, people will have to pay 30, 40, 50% more for all goods and services... to subsidize the mandated increase to a living wage.

I'm not willing to cut my nose off simply to spite my face.

a reply to: daryllyn

Prove it with math....

a reply to: daryllyn

Prove it with math....

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: daryllyn

Prove it with math....

It was a question...

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Do you have any solutions?

What about the coming housing crisis? The fact that no one but hedge funds and big business are actually purchasing homes.... house about skyrocketing rent costs?

The crushing of small business due to inflation and the fact that no one has any money left to spend on local business?

Any solutions?

Are you ok with subsidizing half of the economy so that a few shareholders and CEO's can become mega wealthy?

Too much focus on minimum wage, what your country needs is to create a bigger offering of middle class jobs

a reply to: onequestion

The problem with the minimum wage (and other similar legislation) is that it does not just apply to the big multinational with tens of thousands of employees, it also applies to the corner shop, the little cafe and the garage down the side street, all of whom employ 2 or 3 people and already struggle to survive against the big multinational....

Hit the big man with a stick, and you break the little mans arm.

Do we want a world where Walmart, Starbucks and McDonald are all we have?

a reply to: Indigent

What we need to do is create the conditions needed in order for people to run their own business.

In order to do that more money has to stay in and circulate the local economy. There cant be giant mega corps sucking all resources out of a community and hoarding all of those resources in singular accounts that then in turn don't get spent in the area they are taken from.

I'm blown away with all the alleged econ understandings that this concept is not or misunderstood.

a reply to: AndyMayhew

I see your point and agree.

But then....?

We already have that world.

a reply to: onequestion

What we need to do is create the conditions needed in order for people to run their own business.

That would imply the comple isolation of USA, in a globalized world only big fish survives

a reply to: onequestion

Aye, I am not disagreeing with you. Just pointing out an oft forgotten effect of such legislation. Its a problem and I dont know the solution ....

Edit: I want to see more small businesses, more people working for themselves. As I am, though earning well less than the minimum wage (but its my choice so I am not complaining!!!)