It was always going to happen.

The people of this world have finally gone off the deep end. Or have the people always been this way?

Maybe I should focus on my demographic. Who am I to judge another country? So, remember, though I feel this is the entire world, I merely judge that with which I am most acquainted.

The United States of America: you are lost.

You're done.

When I was in high school, I was annoyed by the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag in my homeroom. It wasn't until my senior year that I even participated. Before that, I thought, "Why am I obligated to do such a thing?"

And, in a way, I was right. It shouldn't be obligated. There should be reason behind such an action. I watched as all my classmates performed the ceremony every day because that is what is expected. I did not. I was questioned a few times by teachers.

What I find most interesting now is that I am infuriated when I see people treat the flag with such disrespect. How is this possible?

Yet again, because I am nothing like my peers who stood up and blindly recited that which was expected of them. I am an observer. It took me a long time to learn the reasons why. Not because anyone told me, because I really learned.

Now, most of 700+ classmates with whom I graduated see the National Ensign, or its government, or its laws, as toilet paper.

I can't help but feel that I was the only right one in the classroom at the time still. No one ever attempted, in my memory, to explain the real reason why. No one, though there were passionate patriots who spoke, ever came up with a valid reason that was good enough for me to simply do what I was told. That is because most people state their reasons with pure passion and neglect the reasonable explanations.

I was never moved by passion. I have found that which is logical in the form of passion and dispassion. Passion is irrelevant to reason, but passion is relevant to the one experiencing it. To be moved by passion is, to me, a vulnerability. But to possess passion is a virtue. Does this make sense to you?

Bernie Sanders is proof that one of the final steps to the completion of the destruction of the United States of America is at hand. Now, before, I have placed very little stock in politics. I've always been curious, and kept up to date, and as always, I have never believed what I was told just because it was said. I judge information first by its merit, then I judge the informer by its intent - and in that order. I have learned that information may be valid, but may be manipulated for that which is wrong. I have also learned that information may be wrong, but the informer may be wrong in ignorance, but be decent at any rate. What I have learned is the result of pure honesty without bias. Humans alone cannot possess that. Read into that... I hope you do.

But did I ever think the United States of America would last forever? Nope. Never. Not even when I was fully ignorant. From the very first moment that I learned there were other civilizations, it was immediately apparent to me that "this too, shall pass". I was indeed a little scared at the realization because I was just a kid. Of course, why would I voice such a thing. I was ignorant and my imagination was only ammunition for those around me.

Little did I know.... LITTLE DID I KNOW... that I would be alive to see the evidence of this moment. No way. No way Jose.

I've always been an observer. I've always been a thinker. I've seen many things. I've heard many things. I used to think what I've experienced is normal. The more people I meet, the more that hypothesis is proven wrong. I'm still holding out, though. May I run into people with understanding so that I might not be alone and that I remain humble.

Look at ATS. This place... it's the place of black sheep. But when you have thousands of black sheep, who then is the black sheep?

Ah.

What about the white sheep that stumbles into the pen of the black sheep?

I go here because this used to be the place to hear things first. The people of the site have made ATS more about commentary about that which has already happened. So, the original intent of ATS has been manipulated by its members to be a platform for politics and bashing instead of "higher" thought. That's fine. That's okay. Because this is still the place to go to find the "higher" thought, in the secular. It's just more hidden. But maybe that is a good thing.

I learn from the wisdom of others and I also learn from the stupidity of others.

You know, I've noticed that a lot of older members that registered in the early days have come back sporadically. They have few posts, but they know how to come back. There are others also who finally register because something triggered them emotionally enough to follow through with a response. But when that barrier is broken, now here they are. But what I mean to say is that there are a lot of observers who do not speak often. This is neglected, at least, in action. There are a lot of observers who agree and do not engage with the reward system. This is neglected. Fact.

These particular observers are the ones that are learning. They read every post. They do not feel the need to answer every thread. They do not even feel the need to answer in areas of their own expertise. Some people are just smart enough to know that fools don't listen. They may even be wiser than me. But they come here in the event they can be taught. And I'm sure they're like me and they perform their research through many other media as well.

This is not to downplay the importance of the common poster. The common poster allows this community to stay fresh and without complete stagnation.

(Please, understand, I am indeed drawing a parallel between the downfall of The U.S.A. and the state of the human mind which can be quite accurately discerned by the members of ATS; bear with me.)

I have witnessed that every one considers their self to be a black sheep. Wow. All the white sheep think they're black. Impressive. That's not being blind or anything. Everyone has to be special. It would be wrong to say that the special people do not consider themselves special at some point. There would be an ironic ignorance in a special person not realizing it. That would imply one who is aware of many things but lacks awareness in such a simple area as well exists. I do not find this to be the case. Words are mighty, which is why they are so often poorly chosen.

Welcome to The U.S.A. Everyone is special, entitled, deserves, demands, blah, blah, blah...

Nitty gritty. If you want to make $15 an hour, either get hired for that much or PAY YOURSELF $15 an hour. It's easy. Do something, charge $15 an hour, get clients, get paid.

Oh wait. You want someone to do the books for you. So that's why you're hired...

People think it's bad now. Wait until you're actually living in a socialist environment and you don't choose your job neither your pay. The option won't exist. Then YOU WILL LITERALLY MOURN over your pay, because it's not pay. It's a bowl of wet rice to make sure you can work the next day... unless you break the law or network with the right (read: wrong) people or run away.

Don't refer to young economies that thrive off of free market imports, exports, and security. Don't be stupid.

No Room. Not continuing. Love. End Rant.

So, what are you saying?

Better yet, please elaborate on why you cited Sanders.

# 461

originally posted by: TheWhiteKnight
So, what are you saying?

Better yet, please elaborate on why you cited Sanders.

# 461

Because Bernie Sanders is a socialist and the OP is vehemently anti-socialist.

Odd looking at the most happy nations in the world they tend to have socialist ideas.
Also doing very well for themselves.
I consider my self a bit socialist not commie just want everyone to be given a fair shout at everything.
I don't think we can slag of places like Denmark when they have better economic freedom than the USA.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

You lost me. The 'Pledge of Allegience' always bothered me a little bit, even as a child, but more when I learned it had been changed in the 50s. The flag? It's a piece of cloth. Love of country is much deeper than that.

Bernie Sanders is proof of nothing at all.

The most odd thing I see in our post is that you were never moved by passion. That is sort of a main idea of humanity and why to follow something.

Bernie Sanders is the tipping point for American decline?

Have you been paying attention for... well, since before yesterday?

...

Is Bernie Sanders the reason you think ATS sucks now?

I'm confused.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Odd looking at the most happy nations in the world they tend to have socialist ideas.

Sure, who wouldn't be happy to have everything given to them. The problem is that someone else has to provide those free things and no one wants to be that idiot that works hard so everyone else can be happy and have their free stuff.

originally posted by: NthOther
Is Bernie Sanders the reason you think ATS sucks now?

I'm confused.

I'm not. TarzanBeta continues to write some of the most dangerous ideas I have ever seen here. It's true, he posts infrequently, but he is always up to speed. I don't think he is saying that any one person is the tipping point, just that it is apparent the quality of human beings (he politely restricts it to Americans) seems to be declining.












I agree. The economic output of each State in the US is pretty close to that of Germany. They started the rocket programs, shouldn't we have at least 25 space programs by now? Not the measly half of one we have now. And the quality of students being produced by the corporate consumerist training ground that used to be our school system is immobilizing to contemplate by the rational caring mind.



Bright future or debt servitude?












I've been saving this for you TarzanBeta,
Nice to look at the world through your window again.


Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: Metallicus
Sure, who wouldn't be happy to have everything given to them. The problem is that someone else has to provide those free things and no one wants to be that idiot that works hard so everyone else can be happy and have their free stuff.

In a socialist country everyone contributes to social policies and everyone benefits from them.

There is no such thing as "have everything given to them" it's a fallacy commonly used by opponents of socialists.

Everyone pays taxes, whether they work or not, and everyone benefits from roads, free schools, healthcares etc.

Also the system doesn't penalize those who work more since the more you make money, the more opportunity you have to immune your revenues from taxes. The poors cannot do that since you need a minimum level of money to invest in things like a house so you can reduce your tax contribution.


Basically you have to come up with something better than "hugh poor people get everything for FREE from the riches!" because it's not true.


Actually recent history showed us that if there is anyone who benefit from public money FOR FREE it was the banks during the bailouts. These banks were given billions and never had to start rationalizing their costs or the repay anything.

If you want to be mad about someone stealing your hard working money be mad at big banks.

a reply to: Metallicus

It is just about looking after those who can not work and sharing out the cost of healthcare.
But I forget about the motto "Screw you guys I'm doing fine".
Just gonna have to disagree with you.

originally posted by: mikegrouchy

originally posted by: NthOther
Is Bernie Sanders the reason you think ATS sucks now?

I'm confused.

I'm not. TarzanBeta continues to write some of the most dangerous ideas I have ever seen here. It's true, he posts infrequently, but he is always up to speed. I don't think he is saying the anyone person is the tipping point, just that it is apparent the quality of human beings (he politely restricts it to Americans) seems to be declining.

*Up to speed on what? Sounding like a serial killer? I left it out of my first post on this, but really, the OP is creepy.*

I agree. The economic output of each State in the US is pretty close to that of Germany. They started the rocket programs, shouldn't we have at least 25 space programs by now? Not the measly half of one we have now. And the quality of students being produced by the corporate consumerist training ground that used to be our school system is immobilizing to the rational caring mind.

I've been saving this for you TarzanBeta,
Nice to look at the world through your window again.

Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: mikegrouchy

TarzanBeta continues to write some of the most dangerous ideas I have ever seen here.

I like dangerous ideas. Dangerous ideas are the only ones that will do us any good.

That's why they're dangerous.

It's true, he posts infrequently, but he is always up to speed. I don't think he is saying the anyone person is the tipping point, just that it is apparent the quality of human beings (he politely restricts it to Americans) seems to be declining.

I'd have to agree with that as well. I know what the OP was getting at. I thought the Sanders pitch was just a bit outside, is all...

a reply to: JUhrman

I totally disagree.

When someone no longer is personally responsible for providing what they need to live they become a slave to the society or entity that provides those things.

Socialism is just slavery with a pretty title.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: JUhrman

I totally disagree.

When someone no longer is personally responsible for providing what they need to live they become a slave to the society or entity that provides those things.

Socialism is just slavery with a pretty title.

You can disagree all you want. Most socialist countries don't provide free unemployment benefits forever to everyone. Usually it's only for a few years, enough time for you to rebound and get a new job, and the money you get is correlated to your past contributions. Thus if you never worked before, you get nothing.

I can't blame you from having a completely false idea of socialism while living in the US. Just it doesn't make your view the reality happening in socialist countries.

Even in socialist countries people get excluded from social security if they abuse the system. Anyone telling otherwise is lying.

originally posted by: NthOther

I know what the OP was getting at. I thought the Sanders pitch was just a bit outside, is all...

LOL


Mike Grouchy














Meanwhile In China...




...and India.

a reply to: JUhrman

I understand perfectly what kind of society you are describing.

I simply don't want to live there.

originally posted by: Metallicus

When someone no longer is personally responsible for providing what they need to live they become a slave to the society or entity that provides those things.

Socialism is just slavery with a pretty title.

So is industrial capitalism. No one can truly provide for themselves anymore due to the specialization of labor required for the mass production of all the junk we've been told will set us free.

We're slaves to the machine it's created, which will be brutally apparent after it collapses and no one can figure out how to wipe their own ass without instructions and expert supervision.

For a nominal fee, of course.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: JUhrman

I understand perfectly what kind of society you are describing.

I simply don't want to live there.

We all want to live in Utopia.

Then we grow up.

a reply to: NthOther

No one NEEDS that crap.

Both Socialism and Capitalism are flawed and enslave those living in them.

Society should be voluntary.

originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: JUhrman

I understand perfectly what kind of society you are describing.

I simply don't want to live there.

We all want to live in Utopia.

Then we grow up.

I just want to be as free as possible.

Societies of any kind are impediments to that end.