Aliens exist: Here is the proof

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: Krakatoa

The incredible and boundless imagination of the human mind. That is how I explain beliefs without hard evidence and non-repeatable experiences.

Seriously, there's a disinformation campaign going on here or what? Boundless imagination? What the heck are you even talking about? 'Beliefs'? What beliefs? Witnesses testimonies is now a religion? Witnesses that will hold their version until their very deaths, witnesses that used to be regular folks, parents, family people, normal people, respected members of their communities. How about multiple witnesses that describe the same event? How about the radar echoes? How about the testimony of professional pilots, military personel, etc? How about the electrical disturbances and radiation effects related to some UFOs?

You don't get to dismiss ALL the cases because some idiots, like Adamski, Meier and others did their nasty work. That's a very irresponsible and lazy way on seeing things.

There are also people who truely believe there neighbors dog told them to kill people and continued believing it for life. hell and it definatly changed there lives.


I know what your thinking... That those people are crazy.... Exactly!

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
What I don't understand is if they are here, what's up with the hiding? Why so silent? I'm not falling for the "we're not ready yet" crap. I don't expect them to land on the white house lawn, but you would think that some of these craft would always be in plain site. Besides, if they are so much more advanced than us why would they care if see them all the time. It's not like we can stop them or anything.

Why would you expect they make open contact? The point is, they do what we do, and all we can do, is speculate on the reasons. Maybe some folks on the government know a bit more than we do. Or do you honestlly believe they will not get involved after unknown spaceships violate your air space, abduct civilians against their will and display far beyond technology comparing to ours? Yeah, right, because the military stopped researching on UFOs after they finished Blue Book... makes perfect sense.

"Unknown Spaceships violate your airspace" - Capable of intergalactic travel but can't stay undetected, Aliens.

IMHO... my ego is not so huge that I cannot feel that there is life out there and that we are NOT special or alone.
The Uni is far to vast to make me that narrow minded.... Dream on.

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

AND, they leave their running lights on! I guess they couldn't figure out how to put an on/off switch on their interstellar FTL travel ships. How intelligent is that?

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: Krakatoa

The incredible and boundless imagination of the human mind. That is how I explain beliefs without hard evidence and non-repeatable experiences.

Seriously, there's a disinformation campaign going on here or what? Boundless imagination? What the heck are you even talking about? 'Beliefs'? What beliefs? Witnesses testimonies is now a religion? Witnesses that will hold their version until their very deaths, witnesses that used to be regular folks, parents, family people, normal people, respected members of their communities. How about multiple witnesses that describe the same event? How about the radar echoes? How about the testimony of professional pilots, military personel, etc? How about the electrical disturbances and radiation effects related to some UFOs?

You don't get to dismiss ALL the cases because some idiots, like Adamski, Meier and others did their nasty work. That's a very irresponsible and lazy way on seeing things.

Lazy way? Really. Let us look at who is lazier, shall we? Here is one way to attempt to identify an odd light seen in the sky. It starts out as a UFO (Unidentified Flying Object), then......

Skeptic

1. Rule out a planet by checking an astronomical database (i.e. Google Sky, etc..)
   
2. Rule out a regular commercial airline by checking a flight database (i.e. FlightAware, etc...)
   
3. Rule out an illumination of balloons or Chinese lanterns by seeing if there are any celebrations or holidays from other cultures occurring at that time
   
4. Rule out a case of personal mental breakdown or hallucination by checking for other people reporting the same experience at the same time
   
5. Bring it to ATS to discuss, explaining the steps taken to rule out the obvious causes...
   

Believer

1. Determine it is an extraterrestrial visitor
   
2. Bring it to ATS to discuss, only accept viewpoints that match your preconceived notions on the origin
   
3. Claim disinformation when someone disagrees with your viewpoint
   
4. Begin personal attacks on the person
   

Now, which one it the laziest here? Who makes the wild leap from observation to determination without investigating the obvious first?

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: SuspiciousTom

AND, they leave their running lights on! I guess they couldn't figure out how to put an on/off switch on their interstellar FTL travel ships. How intelligent is that?

So if a UFO is traveling faster than C and they turn on their headlights, what happens?

originally posted by: Krakatoa
Skeptic

1. Rule out a planet by checking an astronomical database (i.e. Google Sky, etc..)
   
2. Rule out a regular commercial airline by checking a flight database (i.e. FlightAware, etc...)
   
3. Rule out an illumination of balloons or Chinese lanterns by seeing if there are any celebrations or holidays from other cultures occurring at that time
   
4. Rule out a case of personal mental breakdown or hallucination by checking for other people reporting the same experience at the same time
   
5. Bring it to ATS to discuss, explaining the steps taken to rule out the obvious causes...
   

Believer

1. Determine it is an extraterrestrial visitor
   
2. Bring it to ATS to discuss, only accept viewpoints that match your preconceived notions on the origin
   
3. Claim disinformation when someone disagrees with your viewpoint
   
4. Begin personal attacks on the person
   

Now, which one it the laziest here? Who makes the wild leap from observation to determination without investigating the obvious first?

As far as identification protocol goes; I've only seen the latter of your two fantasies ...

For the most part skeptics here reject all data without regard to its nature or viability...unless of course it supports their position. Unfortunately the same can be said for many believers.

Neither side typically has any idea how, where, or in what context to apply science, and is more likely to simply jerk their knee as not.

Another issue is what might be termed "pragma" (in a software sense); skeptics employ a pessimistic view, believers use an optimistic view. The problem with that is; neither view can work in all instances. Thus a "neutral" view or pragma is required, and a heavier reliance on science, especially Mathematics, and physics.

An improved understanding of probability would also serve everyone very well.

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: SuspiciousTom

AND, they leave their running lights on! I guess they couldn't figure out how to put an on/off switch on their interstellar FTL travel ships. How intelligent is that?

So if a UFO is traveling faster than C and they turn on their headlights, what happens?

Very little actually...it isn't until the are going faster than C# (C sharp) that any issue is introduced, and then their lights seem to illuminate only plaid

nope, nope,....wrong methodology
now the Bible....it states that in the end God will call in all His people....on the earth and in ALL the Heavens....
so....I'm a Bible expert......this is the one place to get a hint....plus He mentioned His other flocks.....

a reply to: GBP/JPY

As a Bible Expert you should know that post would have been more coherent with more cites of chapter and verse, and fewer ellipses.

a reply to: tanka418

Take it easy.

The best UFOlogists are skeptics.

Skepticism is the only way to validate what we are seeing up in the sky.

Skepticism does not mean that one argues with a bias no matter what. It means to look at the evidence objectively and scientifically before jumping to a conclusion.

originally posted by: spinalremain
a reply to: tanka418

Take it easy.

No! I absolutely will not!

The best UFOlogists are skeptics.

Anyone who is a true/real "ufologist" is not a skeptic, he is a scientist. And, while the word "skeptic" may be a part of descriptive text for this fellow; "skeptic" most certainly does not define him!

Skepticism is the only way to validate what we are seeing up in the sky.

Skepticism does not mean that one argues with a bias no matter what. It means to look at the evidence objectively and scientifically before jumping to a conclusion.

As "skepticism" plays out in the real world; it is not a method nor protocol for "validating" anything. And, as it is employed by most that I have observed, Skepticism most certainly does mean the argument against the assertion with extreme bias...no matter what...even in the face of evidence that actually provides proof.

The "skeptics" I have observed do not use and tend to reject sound science and will typically injure themselves with their "jumping to conclusions"...which is typically based on the ill-founded opinion of another...

So, basically what I'm saying is: anybody who is, or has allowed themselves to become "defined" by the word "skeptic", are entirely wrong, and, as negative an influence as the other end of the spectrum...the "true believer".

originally posted by: tanka418

The best UFOlogists are skeptics.

Anyone who is a true/real "ufologist" is not a skeptic, he is a scientist. And, while the word "skeptic" may be a part of descriptive text for this fellow; "skeptic" most certainly does not define him!

Scientists and evidence go hand in hand.

originally posted by: tanka418
Anyone who is a true/real "ufologist" is not a skeptic, he is a scientist.

"Scientist" must have a different meaning where you're from...

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance

originally posted by: tanka418
Anyone who is a true/real "ufologist" is not a skeptic, he is a scientist.

"Scientist" must have a different meaning where you're from...

Andromeda?

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance

originally posted by: Emerys
a reply to: Legman


So 70,000 annual reports of UFO sightings are not evidence?

No, they are not. Most of those are misidentifactions, and the remaining few that are actually 'unknowns' are not conclusive. If there were actual, conclusive evidence, it would be on every television station and the front page of every newspaper on the planet.

IT HAS .. in the MEDIA Since the 1950s ...

for Evidence .. Nothing has been confirmed that its extraterrestrial.. your right on that..

but what has been confirmed it that they DO Exist..

just its been Spinned down from the Government .. Avoiding the Public ..
in the MEDIA

Its whether if these UFOS are Ours fro Earth or There's from Intergalactic or Dimension ...

and Most can be fake .. or CGI enhanced ..

Obviously the Public does not have Clue

www.youtube.com...


www.youtube.com...



There was a Time back in the 50s on Both Sides of the Cold War..

That The Civilians were Encouraged to Film these So Called UFOs in the Sky ... and
The Government on Both Sides of the Cold War Request to Send them in to an address of the Government in The Nearest Facility

This was a The Big Start and Home Film Cameras in the 1950s ...


and the Questionable New Paper Clippings of the late 40s and early 50s

before Television told hold of hold MEDIA



worldufowatch.com...

iowahawk.typepad.com...

www.aliens-everything-you-want-to-know.com...

3.bp.blogspot.com...

roswellproof.homestead.com...

Then you have the CIA Admitting about, U2 planes in the late 50s and early 60s to the SR71 being the UFOS

and you have Newspaper clipping claiming that Military Pilots Shot at or Tried to Shoot the very same UFOS Down.

and The Truman 1952 Washington DC incident in a Spread of 2 to 4 Days of Military Pilots going up to investigate a Breach of security around the Capital of Flying hovering Objects detected on Radar..

Al though of all this the is No Shred of Proof what these Flying Object actually are or who Owns them !

its been reported and had exist !

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: AnuTyr
a reply to: tanka418

if you are trying to compare this to aliens, then the difference is in your equipment and how they record.

Pray-tell, How do you record a species of Alien that can sap electronics of power. Teleport, And is never to far away from a spaceship that can Alter space and time? Do you plan on bringing a poloroid camera? Because that's about the only thing that will work, you know. Should you capture the right shot before they cloak or teleport out of view of the camera. Or they could just let you take a picture, Then abduct you and the camera and you would just be another missing person.

Oh gee, I don't know...empirical observation? You know that component of the ole scientific method?

And, there is absolutely no need for ET's spacecraft to alter space or time...

And no, equipment isn't an issue here, it is those who are expecting "miracle evidence"...those who expect there to be "definitive proof", or "beyond reasonable doubt". These people have unrealistic expectations of the available data, and typically refuse to accept what they can have. The old cry "no evidence" is typical of them, and of course; as they will not accept anything viable as "data" then there is no data...for them.

There is however, a plethora of "lesser data" which if collected and analyzed may just add up to the proof everyone seeks.

For instance; the OP attempted to use simple probability, logic and common sense to prove his point. The reality is that the probabilities are so great that his point actually does constitute "proof", simply because of the outrageous probabilities involved. Our skeptic corps can not accept this, even though IF those "odds" were taken to a professional book maker; he wouldn't touch that with anything...because it would be considered a "sure thing".

Even the most jaded and skeptical of scientists do not argue the point, because they know that life absolutely must exist outside of Earth...and that opinion doesn't even take into account the evidence of life outside of Earth...which again is plentiful.

Anyway the point I was trying to make is that this "witness testimony" is the same as any experiment report...sorry "Admirethedistance" you got that one wrong. This ignoring of "witness testimony" is yet another way the rabid pseudo skeptic attempts to ignore and discount the validity of viable data. It is this behavior that has stalled ufology and made this a virtually impossible thing to investigate.

And, I wish they would let me take a picture...because they wouldn't have the balls to abduct me!

Yeah you're right about it being a valid fact of life. It's just funny the skeptics demand videos and pictures of not just the craft but the pilots themselves.

They resemble Cherubim sorta, Like all those half-animal half alien statues found all over the globe. And the fact that they are also identified as gods well... World wide. Later cultures took these half animal-Alien humanlike Gods and turned them into just Human like Gods because they thought humans were trying to personify an animalistic yurning or some bull# trying to rewrite the Gods of Old with the newer cultures expectations.

Our expectations of what the Gods look like in today world, with the dark ages and christian empire really Destroying the bulk of it. We are left with midget humans with wings called cherubs, following a robbed old man on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.

All the animalistic gods taking a plethora of animal human hybrid forms are all collectively the exact same species.
They are shapeshifters, Which is why the particular world wide story ties in together in a rather ominous way.
There's plenty of Evidence alone in ancient monuments to affirm such a * Theory* however. Myself being a witness to these entities reaffirms the theory as fact at least for myself. A skeptic or someone who has not witnessed Space werewolves would need to evaluate the data themselves and come up to conclusions.

the Ultimate point tho is that, soon in the near future we will be reconnected with our brothers and sisters in space. And many of us will be given the same abilities of imperishable power. At that point, We can consider biblical texts and prophecies of old. Which makes everything all the more exciting.

a reply to: Wolfenz

Of course UFOs, by definition, exist. I've never claimed otherwise. But to assume that any of them are of extraterrestrial origins, without any evidence of such, is ludicrous.

originally posted by: JackHill
Seriously, there's a disinformation campaign going on here or what? Boundless imagination? What the heck are you even talking about? 'Beliefs'? What beliefs? Witnesses testimonies is now a religion? Witnesses that will hold their version until their very deaths, witnesses that used to be regular folks, parents, family people, normal people, respected members of their communities. How about multiple witnesses that describe the same event? How about the radar echoes? How about the testimony of professional pilots, military personel, etc? How about the electrical disturbances and radiation effects related to some UFOs?

A majority of the belief in god is based in stories. People are led and told what is the truth. Reliable and honest people witness miracles. Most will go to their grave believing in god. People believe god speaks directly to them and some through them. Presidents, military personnel, pilots, family, respectable members of the community believe physical results happen and are answered by praying to god. The creation of the universe is used as physical evidence of a god. Archeological evidence is used to support stories in the Bible. There are multiple witnesses to miracles. And on and on.
Both UFOs/aliens and any religion do share a common path of belief and faith. I question why you would want to distance yourself from the comparison. As if those who are religious-minded are any less susceptible or gullible to a belief in a story of a miracle, than a UFO/alien believer is to another UFO story.

a reply to: Krakatoa
Exactly right. Many believers do very little, if any, investigation for themselves and follow the lead of someone else. They will blindly believe a case not because overwhelming evidence presented, but because of a pre-existing overall belief in the phenomena. The benefit of the doubt goes to the storyteller without a need to investigate much further. Yet, they will claim the study of each of these cases is based on the scientific method. A skeptic/debunker will search for all of the facts of a case that's available. That's difficult to find sometimes because the sold story of UFO and aliens is much more exciting than the alternative. You have to weed through the BS many times to find the complete story.

4. Begin personal attacks on the person.

I guess attacks, anger, defensiveness, and asserting their intelligence are things to be expected. After all, even if most skeptics/debunkers on the forum don't follow the stereotype given to believers, they must feel the need to overcome that.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance

originally posted by: tanka418
Anyone who is a true/real "ufologist" is not a skeptic, he is a scientist.

"Scientist" must have a different meaning where you're from...

Oh? How is that?

What is YOUR definition of scientist?

Mine of course is; One who investigates the universe using scientific method and principal...you can look that up since it is a sort of standardized definition.