Violent, disturbing films...is it "just a movie"?

My personal feeling is that I'll watch what I want to watch, "you" watch what "you" want to watch.

With the proliferation of the internet, phones with cameras and web browsers, and all of that crap, people can be exposed to all manner of things. The best you can do for a kid is sit down and talk with them. Not try and legislate what they watch or don't watch, because if they want to watch it they'll figure out a way to do so.

The only real solution would be to ban all kinds of subjects in video games, movies, and TV. And that's not something I'm terribly interested in.

Perhaps we should just ban anything that anyone finds offensive. Ban history books, way to much violence in those. Definitely ban the Bible, violence again. Probably going to have to ban journalism as well. Once we ban all these things we can sit under trees weaving baskets /s

Maybe we could also stop deflecting blame away from people who commit horrendous acts, personal responsibility and all that jazz.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I know you want to believe it doesn't affect people, but the scientific research says otherwise.

You are right, I don't want to believe it, but like you said the scientific research says otherwise. I'm just trying to lay down some other things to consider in regards to this study, before I jump ship in my beliefs. Like I said, if the study is true, we should be seeing an up tick in violent behavior in all the markets that violent media is being exported to.

It will not affect all people, and you are one of the lucky ones.

The only thing luck had to do with it was by making me intelligent. My intelligence is the reason why I'm not a violent person even though I consume violent media.

It will drastically affect up to 20% of all people.
Because around 20% of the entire population has
severe issues at any given time.

It will mildly affect 20-40% of all people, to varying
degrees of just a tiny bit, to somewhat effected.

And it will not affect around 40% of people.

But just because you are one of the 40% doesn't negate the fact that it does affect the majority of people, even if in some small and nearly unobservable way (like driving patterns just after playing a violent driving game).
You are a sample size of 1, which tells us nothing at all about how the rest of the people in the world are affected.
This is a way of thinking that one says to oneself, my personal experience is the experience of the entire world.
Well sorry, research and reality says you can not judge the behavior of all humans with a sample size of 1, your own personal experience.

Hey now, I told you that I would be intellectually dishonest if I tried to use my own personal anecdote to characterize the population at large, you don't have to repeat it to me...

As for the foreign market, Japan has stopped reproducing almost entirely.
They are just giving up as a species. Is that normal behavior?

Not sure what a plunging birth rate has to do with violence in media. Perhaps you could explain that to me?

a reply to: grandmakdw

The police have MANY issues that fuel into being overly violent. Many are either ex-military (many with combat experience) or are still in the Reserves or National Guard. I'm sure steroid abuse is also a problem. Then you have the natural inclination for bullies to migrate to positions of authority. The good ole boy system used to hide wrong doing perpetuates the culture too.

So I'd say that, yes, maybe violent media does have an effect there, but there is MUCH more going on than just that.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
My personal feeling is that I'll watch what I want to watch, "you" watch what "you" want to watch.

With the proliferation of the internet, phones with cameras and web browsers, and all of that crap, people can be exposed to all manner of things. The best you can do for a kid is sit down and talk with them. Not try and legislate what they watch or don't watch, because if they want to watch it they'll figure out a way to do so.

The only real solution would be to ban all kinds of subjects in video games, movies, and TV. And that's not something I'm terribly interested in.

Banning is not the answer.

Awareness and education is the answer.

Just like we did not ban smoking because it kills
but education has reduced it so much that one
can now walk freely almost freely in the US
without being assaulted by second hand smoke,
that used to be not the case,
it used to be that everyone and at nearly all times
were forced to ingest second hand smoke.,
and not complain or even dare to ask someone to
stop blowing smoke at them.
With education we now know better.

We can educate parents and people to the dangers
and should allow them to make up their own minds

We can also insist that any Hollywood person
who makes or participates in violent media
be ridiculed roundly in social media
for speaking out against the very violence
they heartily endorse with their actions.

We can also do like we did with cigarettes,
make it socially unacceptable to flood the
world with mind pollution
that is as bad
as filling the lungs with second hand smoke;
through social ostracizing and ridicule.

I saw robocop 2 when i was 4 in the cinema, 25 years later haven't killed anyone yet, i must have seen most violent movies ever since.

It must be i'm a sleeper cell waiting to meltdown

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I posted one study here, there are hundreds if not thousands that have been done. This one paper talks about studies that have been done over many many many years, and compiles the results of the multitude of studies.

It is definitive and has been proven scientifically without the smallest shadow of a doubt
with research beginning in the 1960's up until today. Way too numerous to link here, so I choose
one that consolidated a great many of them into one paper.

There may be and probably are other factors with the police,
but one can not deny that watching
from childhood up until approximately age 20,
well over 9000 hours on average
of police killing first and asking questions later
beating first and asking questions later
and being rewarded for this behavior
and being treated like heroes
has to affect the way one behaves in the world.

One just can not absorb 9000+ hours of this exact behavior
and not think subconsciously that it is correct and heroic
behavior to kill first or beat first and then ask questions.


They have been systematically programmed
by mass media to believe this, regardless of what
they experience in "reality"; 9000+ hours of
immersing oneself in this behavior, does affect
the programming of the brain.


Intellect is deeply affected by 9000 hours of
programming.


Life experience also plays a great part, but
mass media does play a huge role that sticking
our heads in the sand and pretending it is a minor
role only ends up with the kind of behavior
we are now witnessing.


You asked about exporting mass media to the rest of the
world, and said you did not see any influence.
Japan is the best example out there.
As for Japan, they have embraced mass media far
more than any other culture on earth, and it seems
they have come to the cultural subconscious conclusion
that the world is not worth it
that bringing new children into the world is wrong or not worth it,
to the point where they have collectively and subconsciously decided
to end their species.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm so tired of hearing about how us combat veterans are predisposed to violence. You do understand that there's tens of thousands of us not running around beating people up and shooting people, right?

Who's more likely to lose their crap when confronted with a potentially violent situation?

A guy who's read about them in books and took some instruction during the academy class?

Or a guy who spent 7 months dealing with violence on a nearly daily basis?

There was a paper written, I think it was for the international association of Chiefs of police, a while back that took a look at use of force by and citizen complaints against combat veterans compared to either non-military or non combat veteran law enforcement. I'll try to find it, but it showed that there may be some evidence that combat veterans are less likely to use force and less likely to receive citizen complaints than the other categories.

I know it's cool to paint all of us that have been in combat as incapable of dealing with it and because we've seen combat we are somehow predisposed to run around committing acts of violence against people but it's not really a fair shake.

By the way 9000 hours of systematic programming
over a period of time
5-20 years
is less than 2 hours per day.

So it is a conservative estimate.

abcnews.go.com...

The average youth 8 to 18 years old spends almost seven hours every day plugged in to the media. Nearly half of elementary school children and more than 60 percent of adolescents have television sets in their bedrooms. Children spend more time watching television than in any other activity except sleep, experts say.

On average, children ages 2-5 spend 32 hours a week in front of a TV—watching television, DVDs, DVR and videos, and using a game console. Kids ages 6-11 spend about 28 hours a week in front of the TV. The vast majority of this viewing (97%) is of live TV [1]. 71% of 8- to 18-year-olds have a TV in their bedroom

www.med.umich.edu...

So the 9000 hours is assuming close to 1/2 of what they watch is educational TV, not including cartoons which can be quite violent.

That is deep programming.

We are and have been programming the brains of our young people.

Cults and secret organizations can spend less than 10% of that time and deep program behavior into individuals that they may not ever be able to shake.

It only takes 21 days to program a little habit that is very very difficult to get rid of
www.brainpickings.org...
Assume 8 hours of sleep and 16 hours of repeating the habit (absurd I know, it is far less than that, but
I'll go with the absurdly long time)
It only takes 336 hours total to program the brain into a nearly unbreakable habit.

What is more than 9000 hours doing to the brain?

Or how about the average time spent viewing? 3-4 hours per day, I'll go with 3.
The average person from age 5-20 spends over 16,000 hours in front of the TV alone, NOT
including movies or video games.
That is extreme deep programming.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Just like we did not ban smoking because it kills but education has reduced it so much that one can now walk freely almost freely in the US without being assaulted by second hand smoke, that used to be not the case, it used to be that everyone and at nearly all times were forced to ingest second hand smoke., and not complain or even dare to ask someone to stop blowing smoke at them. With education we now know better.

Um, NO

It was legislated to death. Where you can, where you can't ect.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ColeYounger

You're one of the types who gets angry at kids playing Grand Theft Auto and think they go out and start shooting up shopping malls because they play those games aren't you?

No, I think it makes them want to go out and volunteer at the local senior care center.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm so tired of hearing about how us combat veterans are predisposed to violence. You do understand that there's tens of thousands of us not running around beating people up and shooting people, right?

Who's more likely to lose their crap when confronted with a potentially violent situation?

A guy who's read about them in books and took some instruction during the academy class?

Or a guy who spent 7 months dealing with violence on a nearly daily basis?

Dude I'M a combat veteran. The point is that we have training to be violent, some of us have even exercised that training in real life. That means that we are more likely to fall back on that training in situations that may not require it. Yes, I understand that many veterans don't do this, but you would be VERY dishonest if you suggested that there is no link there.

There was a paper written, I think it was for the international association of Chiefs of police, a while back that took a look at use of force by and citizen complaints against combat veterans compared to either non-military or non combat veteran law enforcement. I'll try to find it, but it showed that there may be some evidence that combat veterans are less likely to use force and less likely to receive citizen complaints than the other categories.

If you have a link, I'm ready to read it.

I know it's cool to paint all of us that have been in combat as incapable of dealing with it and because we've seen combat we are somehow predisposed to run around committing acts of violence against people but it's not really a fair shake.

*eyeroll* Stop assuming things about me.

ETA: I'm not sure why responses to me in this thread aren't showing up in my replies to threads page...

originally posted by: grandmakdw
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I posted one study here, there are hundreds if not thousands that have been done. This one paper talks about studies that have been done over many many many years, and compiles the results of the multitude of studies.

It is definitive and has been proven scientifically without the smallest shadow of a doubt
with research beginning in the 1960's up until today. Way too numerous to link here, so I choose
one that consolidated a great many of them into one paper.

There may be and probably are other factors with the police,
but one can not deny that watching
from childhood up until approximately age 20,
well over 9000 hours on average
of police killing first and asking questions later
beating first and asking questions later
and being rewarded for this behavior
and being treated like heroes
has to affect the way one behaves in the world.

One just can not absorb 9000+ hours of this exact behavior
and not think subconsciously that it is correct and heroic
behavior to kill first or beat first and then ask questions.


They have been systematically programmed
by mass media to believe this, regardless of what
they experience in "reality"; 9000+ hours of
immersing oneself in this behavior, does affect
the programming of the brain.


Intellect is deeply affected by 9000 hours of
programming.


Life experience also plays a great part, but
mass media does play a huge role that sticking
our heads in the sand and pretending it is a minor
role only ends up with the kind of behavior
we are now witnessing.

There is still a missing puzzle piece that hasn't been discovered yet. Correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation, and none of those studies have proven that. Though I did read that there is a consensus that it is true, it just hasn't been proven yet.

You asked about exporting mass media to the rest of the
world, and said you did not see any influence.
Japan is the best example out there.
As for Japan, they have embraced mass media far
more than any other culture on earth, and it seems
they have come to the cultural subconscious conclusion
that the world is not worth it
that bringing new children into the world is wrong or not worth it,
to the point where they have collectively and subconsciously decided
to end their species.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I have NEVER read anywhere that the Japanese are just giving up on living and that is why they aren't reproducing. That is silly. All the reasons I've read about it have to do with rising costs of childcare or women spending more time being career orientated. I've seen it suggested that it may have to do with the anime culture and the males idolizing 2d drawings of women more over real flesh and blood women then this is coupled with more and more Japanese females desiring to marry non-Asian men for some reason.

I asked in the OP if anyone thinks that violent movies may affect us more than we think, because there's evidence that suggests the subconscious mind doesn't differentiate between real versus fictional. I think it's a very interesting subject.


Some people suggested I was stating that watching violent movies or playing violent video games makes you automatically engage in violent behavior
Other comments suggested some people were offended, and apparently thought I was telling them what they should or
shouldn't watch.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Right… because the entertainment of yesteryear wasn't inciting anything or responsible for some extremely destructive sentiment…



or



Or how about all those Tom and Jerry cartoons (for the violence and the racism), Loony Toons, James Cagney, the Little Rascals, Amos 'N Andy (for the racism), Dick Tracy, The Lone Ranger (and the entire racist/violent-created culture of cowboys & indians - Death Rides the Range, Six Gun Rhythm). I would say that that time period had much more of a overarching effect on our society and everything that was to follow. Every little kid all of a sudden had/wanted play guns.

And it still stands that as a whole the world is slowly getting less violent. Don't be so short sighted. Now we see someone butchered on TV, yet during biblical/roman times it would have happened outside our front door, regularly. And more recently, the violent War culture during the World Wars was off the charts.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Explain why it is we are "more likely to fall back on our training" when it's not required? How is it logical that you spend all this time training for something and then DOING something but suddenly you become a civilian and you've forgotten how to apply your training?

I will certainly and readily buy that there are those who will snap and lose their crap at some point. But I think those are the ones that are likely to freak out hearing fireworks. They shouldn't be in law enforcement. So yea, I can see that some veterans don't have a handle on their inner demons or whatever name you want to apply, but I don't buy that veterans are suddenly going to forget the proper application of their training.

To me that's no different than saying a retired doctor is more likely to start throwing a trach tube in on somebody who's unconscious instead of starting CPR.

I have a list of films that are as distubing, terrible,,graphic , violent as anything I have watched over the past few years and have never once thought they were anything but films.

I know personal accountability is a forbidden and horrible idea to a certain % of people but their isn't always someone else to blame. My guess is if someone watches a film then emulates what they saw a different trigger would have had the same effect eventually.

originally posted by: okrian
a reply to: grandmakdw

Right… because the entertainment of yesteryear wasn't inciting anything or responsible for some extremely destructive sentiment…

or

Or how about all those Tom and Jerry cartoons (for the violence and the racism), Loony Toons, James Cagney, the Little Rascals, Amos 'N Andy (for the racism), Dick Tracy, The Lone Ranger (and the entire racist/violent-created culture of cowboys & indians - Death Rides the Range, Six Gun Rhythm). I would say that that time period had much more of a overarching effect on our society and everything that was to follow. Every little kid all of a sudden had/wanted play guns.

And it still stands that as a whole the world is slowly getting less violent. Don't be so short sighted. Now we see someone butchered on TV, yet during biblical/roman times it would have happened outside our front door, regularly. And more recently, the violent War culture during the World Wars was off the charts.

Actually the studies began during the time of the very shows you mentioned. They all showed an increase in violence among children who watched the mildly violent shows of yesteryear.

Children and adults are exposed to an average of 900 hours of violence per year on television. That is not outside the door, it is in the house.

Have you read any of my earlier posts? I suggest you look back at them.

a reply to: ColeYounger

Parents that irresponsible are doing irreparable damage to their kids. For adults, it is possible, I believe, to see too much, even if it is "just a movie". This could vary from person to person, of course, but for someone to assume there couldn't be a issue isn't sensible.

I was talking to my husband last night, while watching the most recent episode of Game of Thrones. This scene SPOILER ALERT was in a huge fighting arena, very similar to the Colosseum, and the characters were discussing fighting for sport. I realized that while I don't go and watch these death sports (although MMA isn't too far from it), we watch it being simulated on the screen. The battles, beheadings, blood and guts that have been a sport for many in history.... We have it faked for us.

Regarding MMA, I never really got into it, but completely stopped watching it during one fight when I thought a fighter was close to death. It made me ill, I don't want to watch a person lose his life.