It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Pope is about to ban popular catholic apparition site Medjugorje, after 2 years of failed reforms

page: 1
1
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 01:44 AM
link   
After his glorious appearance on Sarajevo stadium before tens of thousands faithful, Francis is preparing the stage to ban nearby catholic shrine of Medjugorje - alleged place of apparitions of Virgin Mary that drew 30 mln + devote catholics and non-catholics in the last 34 years of apparitions.

Although the final position of the Vatican is not clear yet, there is little doubt the ruling will be negative.

"This isn't Christian identity," he said. "God's last word is called Jesus and nothing more."
news.yahoo.com...

That sounds pretty much known from the past.

One remains to wonder, why then the Vatican promoted so fervently Fatima, and why after all we weren't told the full truth about it.

Being the last pope on Malachi's list (another prophecy), Francis made little in his 2 year pontificate to prove the Catholic church goes to better times. With every next move he manages to repulse more and more of the core devote people. It seems he loses ground for any reform. Unless he is ready to exchange the hard believers with...Buddhists and Agnostics.




posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 01:57 AM
link   
a reply to: 2012newstart

If pope bans what people in that area consider holy for very long time

He will lose those folks forever, they will start calling him Francis the terrible, Francis the ignorant.

Why alienate them,

Yo pope you are supposed to build bridges
edit on 10-6-2015 by OldIsNewAgain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 02:05 AM
link   
Words of St John Paul II about Medjugorje:


quotes from: www.medjugorje.org...



Medjugorje visionary, Mirjana Dragicevic Soldo, met with John Paul II.
"‘If I were not Pope, I would be in Medjugorje a long time ago. I know everything, I have been following everything. Ask pilgrims to pray for my intentions. And take good care of Medjugorje because Medjugorje is the hope for the entire world…’ ”

Fr. Jozo met with Pope John Paul II in 1992, in the midst of the wars in the former Yugoslavia. John Paul II’s words to Fr. Jozo were striking: “I am with you, protect Medjugorje! Protect Our Lady’s messages!”

Bishop Krieger (currently archbishop of Sao Salvador da Bahia and primate of Brazil):

“In 1988, I was with eight other bishops and thirty three priests on spiritual retreat in the Vatican. The Holy Father knew that many of us were going to Medjugorje afterwards. After a private mass with the Pope, before leaving Rome, he said, without having been asked anything, ‘Pray for me in Medjugorje.’ On another occasion, I told the Pope ‘I am going to Medjugorje for the fourth time. ’He concentrated his thoughts and said, ‘Medjugorje, Medjugorje, it`s the spiritual heart of the world.’ On the same day I spoke with other Brazilian bishops and the Pope at lunch time and I asked him: ‘Your holiness, can I tell the visionaries that you send your blessing?’ He answered: ‘Yes yes,’ and embraced me.”


his eminence Christoph Cardinal Schonborn, the Archbishop of Vienna who visited Medjugorje as a pilgrim for Christmas 2009.


Quotes from www.motherofallpeoples.com...


Pope John Paul II many times expressed his faith in Medjugorje. The late Cardinal Tomasek had made public the Holy Father’s remark in his presence, “If he were not Pope he would like to go to Medjugorje to help at the work with the pilgrims.”

To Bishop Paolo Hnilica on August 1, 1989: “Today the world has lost the supernatural. Many people sought it and found it in Medjugorje through prayer, fasting and through confession,” and on March 25, 1984, “Medjugorje is the fulfillment and continuation of Fatima.”

edit on 10-6-2015 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 02:15 AM
link   
a reply to: OldIsNewAgain

Not only the local people. Medjugorje is internationally visited shrine, groups of pilgrims come from USA, France, Poland,...Korea, millions a year. One may say, the most devote people in the Catholic church everywhere, are those who believe Medjugorje and Fatima.

The idea to put on collision course Medjugorje to the Gospel teaching of Jesus Christ is a BAD IDEA. All followers of Medjugorje apparitions of Virgin Mary are followers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is to stir up the believers from inside.

Moreover, the pope had other unfinished works to do in the Vatican, works that haven't been done for 2 years. The ban of shrines who lift up the faith should not be the priority of a relatively new pope, jesuit, who already showed contradictions on other issues.



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 02:24 AM
link   
In one of the early years messages, that were more apocalyptic in scope than the latest years' messages, Our Lady said She is the woman in the desert.

Similarly, Our Lady said she is in the desert in the apparition in Anguera, Bahia, Brazil, started in 1987 and continuing until today.

One has to think of the apocalyptic consequences of making any forceful drive against apparition sites who have proved their beneficial spiritual fruits. If the pope doesn't make that simple calculation (he doesn't read here, he doesn't read internet the feed back of the faithful), then hopefully his aides will make it. Oppose the Church hierarchy to the Virgin Mary, and you get right into the chapter 12 of the Revelation. No matter if it is the real final end times, or just preliminary one.

This is not the first apparition that the RCC bans in recent decades. Whether among the banned ones there were indeed fake ones, or real ones? If Medjugorje is banned the shadow iof arbitrary misjudgment will fall on all of them, including Bayside who exposes intrigues inside Vatican. Until now we were made to believe Medjugorje is different, better and therefore allowed to exist by the administration of John Paul with Ratzinger responsible for the spiritual matters. Then by the administration of Benedict. Now we hear Our Lady cannot send a message tomorrow at 4 pm (it is 6:30 pm to be correct). Why? Because the pope says She cannot.

Because the pope says the word of God ended with Jesus. Omitting that Jesus and Mary continued to reveal new things in history, without contradicting the Gospels.

Similar wording was used to justify the Inquisition, burning of books, and of people. What was done to reinstate the innocent Giordano Bruno, a monk who said there are other worlds? Why the RCC not doing THAT, and instead goes for a witch hunt again, only with modern methods?

Then why the need for a pope to preach, why the need of philosophers like Augustine, if everything is contained in the Gospel? It is well known fact that not everything Jesus did or said was written in the 4 Gospels. They are not 33 year record, not even 3 year record. They were composed later, not at the time of Jesus. The pope doesn't know THAT when he says the last word of God is given in Jesus?

But what is permitted to the hierarchy is not permitted to the faithful, apparently. Now, not even to an angel or to Virgin Mary. Bad, too bad! The hierarchy takes precedence over the Gospel, over the Virgin, ultimately over the Son of God. Nothing is done that trend to stop. Not even the warnings given by CANONIZED SAINTS as that of St John Bosco, Bl. Taigi, Bl. Mora and others, of fiery responce of God on Rome for its deeds past and present.

The Catholic Church practice in all those centuries was to approve apparitions of Jesus and Mary whoa re beneficial to the faithful. As the apparition of Sacred Heart of Jesus to St Margharet Mary, or the apparition that leaded to establishment of the feast of Corpus Christi that the pope celebrated last week! St John Paul II canonized many virtually unknown seers, including St Faustina wth the Divine Mercy devotion! If he was to listen to voices similar to the voice of Francis, he would let Faustina forgotten and banned by previous rulings of infallible church clerks.

What Francis is making now is a dangerous precedent that won't go without consequences.

In recent decades, Fatima stands as the biggest single apparition approved by the Church. What is the standard to approve Fatima and reject others, no less important apparitions? Do we have a double standard? Do we have a gross manipulation of the texts of Fatima, the price of its approval?

If Medjugorje is to be misjudged, then we may say Bayside and Garabandal were misjudged too. We may say, Lucia-2 of late years had nothing to do with early Sr Lucia and her secrets, and it was simply a double person. (google it).

These things have been talked to by people much more erudite than I am, like Tom Horn, who make much more far fetched conclusions as of why Vatican promoted Fatima then, and canonized the children. AT THIS MOMENT I do not agree with their conclusions.

It all depends on one man and his aides where will they go and try to take the entire church with them. It is they who say what they say. If they put themselves in the position of Revelation images, who am I to say on contrary? It will be they who would have judged themselves.

The chip exists and is now attachable to the skin outside. It is not a matter of capability, it is a matter of permission by God, and a matter of waiting the rapture that didn't happen yet.

If the pope moves forward to ban Medjugorje, there will be little left to say in his defense that he is not the one, or his aide. Recently Benedict resent a heretic book to the Vatican with other messages of the Virgin (be they true or not) saying exactly that. Perhaps they are wrong. It is the Vatican administration that will prove whether they are wrong or true, by its own actions.

Tom Horn certainly will have abundant material for his next best selling book, right from the source of the first pope jesuit in history, and may be the last.

edit on 10-6-2015 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-6-2015 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 03:29 AM
link   
I'm sorry I can't reedit endlessly.

This is a gross failure of Francis just before the world awaited him to release the encyclical on ecology, with possible mentioning of multi worlds view, or extraterrestrial beings.

While the world expected the pope to move beyond the historic negativity of the Roman church, he gives a setback at home, against the core of believers. How then they would accept his future words of novelty, if he hits hard against novelty as he called it of apparitions?

It is hard to understand labyrinth and I do not pretend to understand it. Apparently we have multiple agendas one atop the other. Presented in order to delude even the smartest ones. Does it mean we will not be told everything, even if multi worlds are indeed mentioned? We will not be told of those martians are they good or bad, that the pope agreed to baptize in theory?

Tom Horn said it more, that the Vatican already aligned itself with negative aliens. Well, until now I didn't want to accept it as true. It all depends on the actions of the Vatican where it will put itself.

Let notice that many apparitions could be false, in terms of being made by extraterrestrials with some agenda, to play Mary. But, is it Medjugorje too? Again, if you don't allow even one or several apparitions among hundreds, if you rule out that all apparitions at the moment that occur around the world, are practically demonic, or self delusional, then you run the risk of being irrelevant and the people not to take you seriously even for those cases when you are right. That is what the Vatican is preparing to jump at. Once banning Medjugorje, there will be virtually no barrier left untouched for both Vaticans and fundamental faithful to accuse each other of much worse things. There will be nothing to fear to lose anymore.

It will remain only to expect the rescue spaceships, and once saved to look back at earth on a screen and to be told what was all about - was it the real End times or just their play out.

Let remember again the Vatican allowed the publishing of a book of the Fatima seer's nuns, who retold her vision of polar shift, quakes and tsunami. A part of the truth let to be leaked, by those same people.

Whether that will end up with an antichrist, or it will end up in tsunami and lava, practically it is the same if you are saved from it.


The pope said in the last weeks he didn't watch TV since 1990s. Good, no matter he is the most televised person on the planet. He said he didn't read internet. Good, no matter he is the second Twitter on the planet. Now that takes new dimensions.

He says that to absolve himself from any negative feedback his rulings may get from the faithful. There are conservative sites who are much harsh in their assessment of this pope. The pope declares he doesn't care, he doesn't read, and he will do whatever he thinks to do regardless of what the public thinks of it. His only feedback is one mainstream Italian newspaper. And of course his aides that I believe read everything.

The day before Francis said, remove the computers from your kids' rooms, and put them in the common room! Well, it is not only computers it is cell phones. Does the pope speak only of US and West Europe, btw? On first sight, that is logical, to control no filth is being watched. On second sight however, that has much more drastic consequences. How about an important message to be spread tomorrow on internet, not so much on TV but surely on some websites, that the pope doesn't want your kids to see it first?

How about Extraterrestrial message? The kids are the first to respond positively even before their parents. How about an attempt to put a barrier of censorship between conservative parents and more open kinds that is natural? Are we talking of a Rescue message?

I believe such will be given in the air, not only online.

Will the pope allow the kids to watch the new Star Wars serials, if he himself doesn't watch them?
Will the pope endorse Palpatine? He should have watched some early episodes of Star Wars.
What we are said is just absurd. That man at the top to say what is right and what is wrong.

This is the lowest point of Francis, but there could be lower than that. For me he is no more the man who will do a change to some global betterment. He still could play it much worse though. I already said on previous less dramatic occasions: why doesn't he resign? He wasn't the first choice of cardinals anyway. Cardinal Oulett was, and he granted papacy to Bergoglio. (why that is possible in first place, IDK). Perhaps it is a good occasion for Bergoglio to step down at the height of his glory, with already printed historical encyclical. He will be fiercely criticized by all sides anyway, once the text appears on June 18, regardless of what is inside it. Perhaps now is the time Bergoglio goes out to "eat pizza unrecognized" and not becoming the "Antichrist" in the view of so many conservatives, both catholics and non-catholics.

He is still supported by MSM, and one may ask, why? When the core catholics are rather unhappy of the choice, and of the so many words of that man said for 2 years afterwards. Why should the MSM continue creating the image of the peacemaker, if he brings the spiritual war right into the core of the Catholic Church? Next is to start ban books and people who preach them. Excommunications may be? What worse could happen that haven't happened already in history? It is a time for Bergoglio to go. He tried hard, and that try wasn't successful. There is already dissent among bishops who take opposite sides about the moral issues. Will he wait until they go instead of him, and we see one church in West Europe-North Am, and another one in the Third World, with some dioceses switching between? One of the many possibilities. One just can't have 15th century style of rule, even when he talks of aliens, and expects the masses will cheer all the time. Actually, if you count in percents, the masses are not so many compared to the billion wide church. The people were bused to Rio from neighboring countries and cities to make the Copacabana's once at the time show. But think for a moment, what are 4 mln people compared to the 500 mln Latin America that sees withdrawal from Catholicism at the rate of 1% a year may be?
edit on 10-6-2015 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 03:58 AM
link   
a reply to: OldIsNewAgain

That's actually Catholicism's problem. They went out of their way to include things that are not Christian. Christianity is not here to build bridges. Either something is of God or it's not. If it's not, then accepting it to build bridges is destructive.



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 04:05 AM
link   
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Unfortunately, I have to admit the Roman Catholic church (and I stress Roman) went too far for the last 2 decades. (you may say for the last 1500 years). Instead of correcting past wrongdoings, it builds up new ones. It can't end up good when it is built up wrong.

Regardless of whether ultimately one would choose by conscience to follow some messages of Virgin Mary, or not. It is not a dogma to believe. No one is obliged to believe.

What is terrible is the inquisitor's tone the Roman church takes again, although today with modern means.



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 04:13 AM
link   
a reply to: 2012newstart

I agree. And it's a big problem because they are built on the idea they can't make mistakes in matters of faith. So it makes it very hard for them to correct mistakes.



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 05:04 AM
link   
edited by the poster.

I will review my entire position on the pope and papacy. Perhaps Tom Horn is closer to the truth than previously assumed.
edit on 10-6-2015 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 06:43 AM
link   
I've heard all these rumblings before.

I'll believe that he is going to ban it when he actually says it.

Even if he does ban it, someone or something is appearing there - I'd stake everything I am and own on that statement I believe it so fully.

To me it's never been a question of if something supernatural is going on there, but more who it is appearing and what is their end game.



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 07:35 AM
link   
Time is coming when everyone should decide for himself where he/she stands. I have to save my soul first and foremost, and to take the seat in the rapture spaceships or rescue spaceships, if God's will is that for me and not martyrdom. That doesn't mean I won't post anymore. It means I don't have any more time for free elaborations and offering info that is not wrong by itself, but is not related to the events in Revelation. Yes it is good to know there are more Gospels, including Gnostic, and others that never reached to our days. Internet is full of that. What we have as Jesus' words, are hardly 1% of everything Jesus said on Earth. I elaborate that in other threads.

However, if we have weeks to the rapture, fall of Babylon and the rise of the beast, as Revelation 14 give the sequence (in combination with other chapters), it suffice little to know that the Gnostic Gospels were banned by Constantine-shaped early church controlled by pagan Rome. What matters it to GET SAVED, as one video of a boy who visited Heaven of God, recently said. (you can check my thread 3 days of darknesss where I posted the link, or just google it).

The world apparently entered a new phase. Not only politically, but also spiritually.

According to the American seer John Leary, the Declaration Day of the Antichrist will occur several weeks after the Great Warning. In those several weeks the believers should find their ways to the refuges. In one of his latest messages (2 months ago?) John Leary for a first time speaks of "balloons of air" to go up into space. Although he spoke before of permanent refuges different from the temporary ones. That was interpreted as refuges off earth where the faithful will go from the temporary nearest refuges. The balloons themselves are not something I am amazed of, but may be that is the permissive language to avoid the "protestant" words as rapture, or the "new age" words as alien spaceship.

The Fall of Babylon must follow shortly after the first rapture, if we read carefully chapter 14 of the Revelation. 1 rapture of the 144,000 (or some number associated with them), followed by the Fall of Babylon, followed by those who stand on the sea of glass mixed with fire. They refused the mark, while still being alive. I.e. they are raptured soon after the mark of the beast is offered. Apparently first it will be voluntary.

We don't know the date of the first rapture, but if we know the relative timing of the fall of Babylon and the declaration day of the antichrist (presumably after that), we can calculate several weeks before. May be less. How could we know that? Nobody knows the day or the hour. We should follow every event coming next, under the prism of the Revelation. Assume the worst that we are already there, no matter we didn't have the locusts etc. Perhaps it happened spiritually, as many use to say. I'd prefer to assume the worst and get saved, rather than give credits to teachings that will lead me ultimately to the mark of the beast.

Of course the catholic Great Warning equals to the Protestant (Biblical) Rapture, equals to the rescue in alien spaceships equals to the chariot of Elijah and his own rapture/ascension. Not to heaven because he didn't resurrect, but to other planet.

I say that because that is what brings to mind the latest extremely harsh wording for a church that pretends to bring peace and understanding, against the spiritual symbol of the most devote catholics of the latest 3 decades. Symbols that survived Communism are practically persecuted by church hierarchy. It is not only Medjugorje. It is also the Fatima-gate, as if we are semi-idiots not to understand the tricks being played. It is a number of other shrines and locutions that gave strength in the darkest times. Such as the idea of Eucharistic reign developed by Don Gobi and other seers. Be it fully or partially true. I feel betrayed. Sure not every apparition in the last decades is true. May be many are delusional. But surely not every apparition is false. And only Fatima stands as example of devious exchange of heavenly wording with something else. Shame! Those people who did that are still sitting in the Vatican and elsewhere, as if they never lied God and men! As if no one understands what is all about. People do understand. No matter how much I disagree with Tom Horn and Steve Quayle, on that particular occasion about Fatima I agree with them. Vatican used Fatima and canonized the children, making it self-fulfilling prophecy, regardless of whether Fatima is God- inspired or not. (you have to go thru the rest of stuff, I can't say it in two paragraphs).

I am not going to discuss who said what, and to take sides in dispute that may be endless, and where I am nobody. I already said my point of view. Let the others do it, too, and not hiding behind. They will be sorry for their silence now.

I don't have time to wait any longer to decide what is what. If someone has that luxury let him continue. I have to save my soul. So I have to assume the worst has already happened, spiritually, although we don't have many of the spoken events in the Revelation (asteroids, locusts etc). The pope won't save your souls, Jesus will. And better use the rapture unless you want to be martyred.
edit on 10-6-2015 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-6-2015 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-6-2015 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-6-2015 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 09:08 AM
link   

originally posted by: 2012newstart
Being the last pope on Malachi's list (another prophecy), ...

Pope Francis doesn't fit the Malachi prophecy list.
Tom Horn and Steve Quayle try to push it as if he does.
But he simply doesn't.



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 09:10 AM
link   

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: 2012newstart
Being the last pope on Malachi's list (another prophecy), ...

Pope Francis doesn't fit the Malachi prophecy list.


He is the last one in the list, if he is a valid pope. That list is for centuries.
edit on 10-6-2015 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 09:18 AM
link   

originally posted by: 2012newstart
In recent decades, Fatima stands as the biggest single apparition approved by the Church. What is the standard to approve Fatima and reject others, no less important apparitions? ...


Catechism of the Catholic Church - Apparitions
Fatima was clearly from Heaven. The Church has full authority to investigate and determine if an apparition is worthy of belief or not. The Catholic faithful are required to accept the findings. If they dismiss the Vatican decisions, then those Catholics are really protestants and should just admit it.

ATS Quick Guide to Popular Modern Apparitions and Seers


If Medjugorje is to be misjudged, then we may say Bayside and Garabandal were misjudged too.

Bayside and Garabandal are demonic, IMHO.
The Church said Bayside is unworthy of belief.
The Church has said that Garabandal has nothing supernatural.
The only misjudgement the church has done is with Garbandal.
It should have been condemned instead of just saying 'not supernatural' via eight bishops.
(and yes, the local bishop has full authority to make the pronouncement).
I'm of the opinion that the bishops don't out and out condemn it because of $$.
It's a cash cow for the local diocese there.

In the case of Medjugorje. I went there in 1991. It was beautiful.
I experienced and saw many supernatural things.
The laws of nature were broken before my eyes ... everyone saw these things.
I experienced the divine in the soul. It was unexpected and not mentally induced.

If the Vatican says that Medjugorje is not authentic, then the faithful have to listen.
They have 2,000 years of experience in this matter. They know better than we do.
edit on 6/10/2015 by FlyersFan because: fixed quote



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 09:19 AM
link   

originally posted by: 2012newstart
He is the last one in the list, if he is a valid pope. That list is for centuries.

He doesn't fit the description. He fails as 'Peter the Roman'.
Tom Horn is wrong. He's just trying to sell his book.



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 09:20 AM
link   

originally posted by: 2012newstart
The pope won't save your souls, Jesus will. And better use the rapture unless you want to be martyred.

Catholics do not believe that the pope saves souls.
There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.
In fact, scripture says just the opposite.
The meek shall inherit the Earth and the evil shall be removed.



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 09:22 AM
link   

originally posted by: FlyersFan

They have 2,000 years of experience in this matter. They know better than we do.


If you say so...

I prefer to see where we are at in the Revelation, without being guided by those same ones who guided us for 2000 years to reach that point.



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 09:52 AM
link   

originally posted by: FlyersFan
There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.
In fact, scripture says just the opposite.
The meek shall inherit the Earth and the evil shall be removed.


One is taken ,another left. So you want to be left behind. I want to be taken up.
Rapture of the manchild says it clear: "raptus est".
And a dozen of other quotes, let alone Paul's letters.
The meek...certainly not today's Vatican. After the Second Coming. Before that, I don't want to be around.
edit on 10-6-2015 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 10:05 AM
link   
a reply to: 2012newstart
There is no pretrib rapture. That's soul-candy nonsense invented by failed anglican priest Nelson Darby in the 1800s. His rapture cult caught on with evangelical types and that's why we still suffer to hear about it today. It's not scriptural. It's the exact opposite of what scripture states.

It's a dangerous false teaching. People go around thinking they are going to be trib-free, but when the crap hits the fan, they'll be left here like everyone else. They'll suffer and die horribly just as the saints through the centuries have. Those counting on a pre-trib rapture to get out of suffering will lose their faith. Very dangerous.

Any 'apparition' that talks about a rapture is false.

I have seen nothing in the Medjugorje messages that talk about a supposed rapture.




top topics



 
1
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join