Obama Lawyers Asked Secret Court To Ignore Public Court's Decision On Spying

a reply to: reldra

Forget who opposed Obama...I am asking based 100% on his actions since taking office,,,???

a reply to: Sremmos80

Obama is dangerous in ways McCain nor Romney could ever be. He is the orchestrator of the most egregious attacks on the Bill of Rights and the Constitution itself. He is divisive in his politics, his foreign relations, and his presidency. He strives to maintain chaos in all areas...except golf. He seems to be very focused on getting that ball in that hole in one single swing of the club.

He was "allowed" to be the President for one reason and one reason only...those who have the biggest interest in and also controls the M.I.C. wanted to utilize Obama as their tool for global governance. One World. And Obama has not failed them. We are well on our way.

We live in interesting times.

a reply to: Swills

As I stated in my recent post, Obama is a tool, being wielded for a specific purpose. And doing an excellent job.

Do you know what the definition of "prestidigitation" is? That is Obama. A Master Prestidigitator.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: Ultralight Yes. And I want to add that the information provided by the OP is more complicated than it looks. See my prior post. McCain with the possibility of Palin becoming president had the man had a heart attack? Mitt Romney? I would do it over and over and over again.

This brings up a hard question. I am liberal, and initially loved Obama when he was running. I thought he really would be different on US foreign policy and stuff like this.

I don't think he really is though. He's the good cop half of the good cop/bad cop routine. Bush was the bad cop.

I lost faith when, sitting in China in 2011, the Libya proxy war/regime change happened, then the Syria proxy war.

Now all of the NSA stuff.

It's getting harder and harder for me to plan to vote using the "lesser of two evils" argument. I already have dis-identified from Democrat. I think more people need to vote independent. We need a critical mass to get out of the problematic party duopoly.

The whole thing is a joke.

a reply to: TomLawless

I beg to differ. Bush is not a "blithering idiot". He is grandson of Prescott Bush and son to George H.W. Bush and was groomed to do precisely what he did...set the stage for an Obama, who in turn has set the stage for the final curtain with Jeb Bush.

Welcome to the country no longer recognizable by anyone over the age of 45.

originally posted by: neo96

The Obama administration has asked a secret surveillance court to ignore a federal court that found bulk surveillance illegal and to once again grant the National Security Agency the power to collect the phone records of millions of Americans for six months.

What happened to this guy ?

'No more spying on citizens who are not suspected of a crime'!!

I wish Obama would be held to the SAME standards GW was.

I guess hell would freeze over.

Well, first he should be. On domestic surveillance he is being held TO MORE criticism than Bush EVER was. Remember, nobody batted an eye with the Patriot Act. Bush got a free pass.

Also, please remember that Obama hasn't invaded two countries and caused literally the deaths of several hundred thousand civilians, which Bush did.

Nor did Obama institute a regime of CIA torture, as Bush did.

Bush hasn't even been truly taken to task for any of those (war crimes).

So please tell me which standard he needs to be held up to that Bush had to face?

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Xcathdra

I simply find it astonishing.

Obama campaigned on illegal spying. Was elected on it, and now he is defending it.

I do agree with you that it is atrocious that he campaigned on such things and then secretly (and now not so secretly supports them). It's hard to watch that video and not be disturbed. It was speeches like those that made a lot of people like him.

a reply to: Swills

Correct. This MY Team/YOUR Team mental masturbation is similar to trying to decide which SH*T is better...cat sh*t or dog sh*t. Either way we aren't cleaning any of it up and getting OUR house in order. Throw the Two party system out. It is the first obstacle that must go.

I am sorry but I am going to offend many of you. I feel you are naive. You need to remember history. Before World War II many diplomats condemned Nazi atrocities. During the war those same powers that condemned the Nazi; used those same techniques against the Nazis. Remember the fire bombing of Dresden? Before the war, the Allie powers had condemned such acts of violence. With the horrors of war it was okay.

The man who orchestrated the fire bombing of Dresden was General Curtis LeMay. General LeMay also conducted the fire bombing of Tokyo. His only regret while fire bombing Tokyo was that he did not have more napalm!! He even admitted that if the Allies had lost the war, he would have been brought up on war crime charges.

Now, we have giant data collection of information on American citizens without due process. It is that same surveillance that has helped protect American lives and has helped solves crimes against innocent American people (Stingray devices). Maybe you feel you would rather be a little less safe and have less worry about Big Business and Big Government watching you every move. But, then you may also end up being chained up, enslaved and beaten because of the new people that come to power.

There is no real ideal solution to the problems of the world and society. It seems we are all damned if we do and damned if we don't. With new technology advances, we never know what technology can be corrupted to be used to enslave us.

I will offend many here but I would like to point out an inconvenient truth that everyone seems to ignore. The American Civil War was not fought over slavery. Slavery helped set up the conditions for the Civil War to occur but was not the reason for the war. Saying slavery was the reason for the war is putting lipstick on a pig. It is just like saying the Gulf War was over weapons of mass destruction. The Civil War was fought over power. The South was losing power at the Federal level and wished to regain it by succession. The North was not about to lose the power of a combined United States of America. That is the reason for the war. Whoever won the war would dictate terms. The North had more power due to industrialization and manpower. The South was fighting from a defensive stance. It took the North to find men who were willing to fight war in all its ugliness to defeat the South. Remember that scorched earth policies were conducted by the Northern commanders. Grant and Sherman were butchers but that is EXACTLY what was need to win the war. It is a lesson that is very relevant to today. At what price is freedom, liberty and happiness to be achieved? This is a question we all need to contemplate.

#1 - I agree 100% with this statement.

There is no real ideal soltion to the problems of the world and society. It seems we are all damned if we do and damned if we don't. With new technology advances, we never know what technology can be corrupted to be used to enslave us. 

#2 - You use the the examples of fighting the Nazis, then slide right into a spiel about using "by any means" tactics to defend U.S. from outside aggressors...I.e "terrorists" or "terrorist nations"; however, you barely touch on the fact that these applications propagate a very real cancer (mass data collection, Stingrays...etc...et al) in the fabric of our truest national ideals. You also either ignore or convenient ly leave out the fact that in the 1930's & 40's the Union Bank (40 Wall Street - pretty sure it was the building used in Spike Lee's INSIDE MAN) that started by G.H. Walker, Prescott Bush and Avirell Harriman were the personal bankers to: I.G. Farben, Kryups Armoury and Thyssen Steel. This group was the backbone and lifeline that groomed, stabilized and facilitated Hitler's rise to power. There are parallels to Charlie Wilson's War (& the C.I.A.) formenting the Muhajadeen in Afghanistan during the eighties to fight the Evil Empire of Russia. They then covieniently morphed into Al-Qaeda with BinLaden (bin or lbn means "son of" - like [Mc]Bundy in Ireland or Brezen[ski] in Poland) while Usama's father and brothers were in business together with the Bush Family, prior to the Carlyle Group in 2001...in fact one brother died in a "mysterious" plane crash in Texas. We can also see this quid-pro quo relationship in ISIS...how do you think they got all of our humvees and their seemingly endless guns/ammo.

#3 - You are correct about the Civil War not really being about the issue of slavery. However, you somewhat allude to the idea that the South was the underdog fighting the good fight. They were not, atleast not the leaders, they had every intention of succeeding and colonializing South America and the Caribbean into an Agrarian economy fueled by BLATANT slavery (our "masters" are so much more subtle in the present deception). Nor do you mention the enactment of The Organic Act of 1871 which allowed THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA & it's subsidiaries THE U.S. GOVERNMENT and U.S.A.) to be incorporated in the District of Columbia (NOT A STATE OR TERRITORY) and the subsequent 14th Amendment that legally bound us all into facade of bread and circuses.

#4 - Your history does not go deep enough in the relevant timeline. Look closely at the LEGAL implications of the Treaty of Paris in 1783 when we supposedly "won" our independence. All land in America was based on a Royal Charters (I.e. incorporation) and we still live under their terms.

#5 - Constitution...is something WE the (current) people are not privy to anything in tgat business contract since we were not actual signatories.
Freedom(s)...NONE, only temporary privileges and quasi "rights".
Liberty is a privilege bestowed upon a seaman on shore...if he is deemed worthy.
Happiness is...a frame of mind.


a reply to: feldercarb

While I applaud your erstwhile effort in moving the discussion to a higher level of insight. I feel that your slant is a little too paternalistic. Therefore, I will try my hand at filling in some gaps I noticed in your history lesson.

a reply to: Kapusta

Bbbahaha

US has open public courts

And then secret courts

You can't make this stuff up

a reply to: Ultralight

Ya know what, good, i am somewhat bolstered by that admission. The sad truth is that people over 45 completely ruined this country.

Wanna blame the youth? Guess what, thats your kids.
Wanna blame the lack of education? Guess what, that is your fault as well.
Healthcare? You
Gun laws? You
Trade laws? You
Banking laws? You

Shall i go on and on like you do in this constant rant about how terrible Obama is?

Get real. Your generation is by far the most responsible party in all this # storm we call government so please tell me. Knowing what you do now about how the government works and has worked for the majority of your voting life would you go back and make different decisions?

a reply to: Kapusta

I wonder how many of you complaining about this POS now, bought into all that crap about hope and change 6 years ago and, worse yet, voted for this douchebag.

I don't care if they call it meta data or not. Collecting everyone's phone records, should be illegal.

a reply to: fshrrex

Greetings.

I was not aware of most of what you reported in part 2 of your reply. I did know that there were many Americans that were sympathetic to the Nazi regime because they felt that the Nazi regime was bring law and order to a chaotic Europe. I believe that IBM and Merck were also considered helpful to the Nazi regime.

I did not in any way mean to imply that the South was fighting the good fight. I was trying to convey the relative strength of both sides. By saying that the South was fighting from a defensive stance I was pointing out their best strength. Military doctrine usually states that when attacking someone in a defensive stance, the attacking force needs at least a 3 to 1 advantage in manpower. This means that the attacking force will be taking massive amounts of causalities to "win" their objective. Thus, this forced the North to be lead by people like Grant and Sherman. Grant and Sherman were willing to accept the causalities as long as "progress" was made. I also pointed out their use of scorched earth policy. Note, the scorch earth policy not only hurt southerns but also the "freed" slaves. These former slaves had a tendency to follow the Northern army is search of food. The ideal of 40 acres, a mule and some seeds was a suggestion from a Northern commander to get rid of people following his baggage train looking for food. He was basically wanting to send those people to their deaths because they were using up his supplies.

I appreciate your expansion of my original post. I hope people realize that the situation is not as cut ans dry as they would like. Remember you do not have anti virus software unless someone is making a computer virus. You do not need a home security system unless someone is committing burglaries in your neighborhood. The same people who supply these products also help cause the problems that call for their solutions. Remember that adjustable rate mortgage were pushed for all knowing that there was to be a certain amount of foreclosure to occur due to their policies. In other words, the companies knew that adjustable rate mortgages would cause foreclosures and still forced ordinary people to have adjustable rate mortgages or nothing at all.

Again, I say nothing is as cut and dry as it seems.

This seems like our Taxation without representation moment. The FISA court is obviously not representing "The People", was not elected by the people. The people aren't even made aware of what is argued and talked about by the "Secret Court" sounds like Treason to me, at the very least it's unconstitutional.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: neo96

The Obama administration has asked a secret surveillance court to ignore a federal court that found bulk surveillance illegal and to once again grant the National Security Agency the power to collect the phone records of millions of Americans for six months.

What happened to this guy ?

'No more spying on citizens who are not suspected of a crime'!!

I wish Obama would be held to the SAME standards GW was.

I guess hell would freeze over.

Well, first he should be. On domestic surveillance he is being held TO MORE criticism than Bush EVER was. Remember, nobody batted an eye with the Patriot Act. Bush got a free pass.

Also, please remember that Obama hasn't invaded two countries and caused literally the deaths of several hundred thousand civilians, which Bush did.

Nor did Obama institute a regime of CIA torture, as Bush did.

Bush hasn't even been truly taken to task for any of those (war crimes).

So please tell me which standard he needs to be held up to that Bush had to face?

Ummmm, you realize the god-king Hussein obozo created ISIS right? Also he invaded FOUR countries, Ukraine, Egypt, Libya , and Syria. His proxy army is one of the most horrific things ever created, so no, this murdering psychopath has been held to no standards, if he was hed be in prison.