America - You need to take a stand, this is not civilised...

Wish I could see this article.

www.wsj.com...


Is this true that the stats are wrong? from the FBI?.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I know it obviously isn't the wild west but as an outsider looking in it does look like there is a problem in some places, like grand says mainly in impoverished areas and unfortunately a bigger percentage of black dudes.
I think it is because people are poor and desperate and that rubs off on society and then the cops lose empathy.
Same in most places but worst I gotta deal with is a knife.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

People who haven't travelled the scarier places have NO IDEA what goes on.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Funny story...

I was about 21 in Manchester getting drunk with pals and I was a few mins ahead of my mates who had gone for a kebab and this little fella runs up to me and says "give me your wallet I have a gun" and he half pulls out this object which was a mobile phone (a big one) and puts it back in his jacket so I said "no" he says "I will shoot yer" I say "What with a phone?" remembering my mates I look around just in time to see them come around the corner, I shout "Hey this fellas trying to mug me with a phone" I look back around to see him running away lol.

Nah man I grew up in Moss side in Manchester one of the only places in the UK at the time with a gang and gun problem.
My dad got us out as soon as he could.
I have run some of the worst pubs in the UK and seen and been involved in some horrid stuff but I aint no idiot I know there are places way worse than Moss side in america but why? is it just because of poverty or anything else? I dunno and what are the solutions to sort it out?.

a reply to: and14263

I have said it before and I'll say it again.
We need to make police elected officials. They keep a beat and that would be their constituency.
This way we would have power over them. They would have to be friendly to keep their jobs and would think twice before killing anybody especially a potential voter.
They would not really have to campaign, just go door to door on their shifts and introduce themselves.
"Hi, I'm Officer Joe Friendly and I haven't killed one of you this year, can I keep my job please?
What say you?

a reply to: boymonkey74

yes. its not "wrong", just skewed in their favor.

that old saying "figures don't lie, but liars can figure"...that applies to government employees more than anyone else.

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: 200Plus

What conclusions are you referring to?

Why shouldn't one explain idiocy or psychosis?

You are quick too apply labels where they don't belong.

I'm defining mass psychosis as
a large group of people believing
the same thing
that is not true

See my posts pages 2-3 regarding "mean world syndrome"

a reply to: grandmakdw

You gotta remember how each of our medias portray each of us (uk and US and everywhere) thats why it is good to converse on ATS we all learn stuff without the bias.

We have several problems in the US.

1. Militarization of our police. We used to have swat teams for special occasions. It's a big problem. Police officers that can't cut it in the military and want to pretend.
2. No-or obsolete, inadequate training. I'll teach police officers hand to hand self defense and JiuJitsu and how to use a club/baton...for free.
3. Bad hiring processes. Sometimes there is little to no screening and what there is is ineffective. Make being a cop harder. I don't know of one police force in a major metropolitan area that has a lack of candidates or resumes flooding in when they announce they are hiring.
4. Community relations. Take Ferguson. The big problem there is that the community didn't trust the police...easy to fix. Start working WITH your community and using some good PR> You can't police a community effectively without communty help. How come cops don't realize that?
5. Effective de-esculation tactics and training. The Pool party video. You ride up like Nick Nolte and you get more trouble...you ride up and talk normally and don't just throw teenage girls to the ground because you didn't get any from your wife.

5 problems with 5 easy solutions.

Oh wait...six.

6. Make sure that you make it possible to prosecute the police when they do things like murder innocent unarmed people. It's starting with all the heat going on across the country. But when you have a bad cop, make sure it's possible to prosecute him. The way the legal system is set up it's a long convuluted process that doesn't work many times even when the cop is down right dirty or a psychopath.

a reply to: boymonkey74

In MY time a weapon pulled best be a weapon used or they have shown themselves cowards.
I will SHOW them their mistake.If I 'm SOBER with mercy,but to a known enemy?
ALL of Islam isn't my enemy but right now I can't tell who is who.

I have a heart made black by pain and betrayal,I'll surely show it to them.
"ALL enemies foreign and DOMESTIC" My oath will hold or my death will stop it. I can't and won't ask for a better existance.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Solutions are not up to us but those who decide to comit to trouble,if THEY can't work it out nothing will channge ,poverty ,values and family,perhaps .

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Good for you fella!.
Fight for what you think is right dude.
But remember their are many foreign people who would fight right beside you when push came to shove.
(especially after flyersfans posts about 200 years from now).

a reply to: grandmakdw

Not true? Not true as in the new definition of not true, such as "if you like your health-care plan, you can keep your plan"?

a reply to: and14263

I think the main problem is recruitment , most of these policemen are ex soldiers and will still think like a soldier .

a reply to: boymonkey74

Oh yeah, I know I'm just another US HARDASS, you know the type.
My Daughter lives in Nottingham by the way.
I hope she is OK over there.
I'D HATE to be arrested in england for mangling in public...

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Wish I could see this article.

www.wsj.com...


Is this true that the stats are wrong? from the FBI?.

Yes, it's true. The FBI doesn't have complete crime stats, the best estimates are that at least half of all police killings in the US go unreported in the statistics while the less reliable statistics are that it's as many as 75% of all killings aren't reported. That means somewhere between only 1 in 4 to 1 in 2 are actually accounted for.

Believe it or not there's no national system that tabulates every police incident. It's kept mostly on a local level which is why the FBI statistics are so far off.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Nottingham is alright.
Mangling as in having a punch up? nah been involved a few times with the police and scraps from running pubs and they are alright If you give em lots of back chat and go for one they will give you a clip around the ear whole but generally most don't want to arrest you, I have seen it many times where they just break up a big fight and just tell everyone to bugger off home but when they don't and get all shouty they say right in the van for a night to sleep it off.
In my pub in London I used to drink with a load of murder squad detectives....dark people man.

a reply to: 200Plus

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

a reply to: beezzer

Our society has serious issues. The actions of the police force are in response to the problems in society - not a direct response to the actions of the criminal at that specific time. I can sort of see that. I can also see that the videos in the OP don't entirely address the subject and offer a bit of bait.

But there's interesting things going on here.

There's the idea of acting on a local level, carrying on with one's life best one can and creating a fuss when it effects us or our family.

There's the idea of national protests, lobbying and letters to congress - in light of the cases garnering media attention.

But the crux of it is, as 200Plus says, that society has fallen.

Perhaps this is why these cases, as has been pointed out a few times in this thread, are not an example of the majority, exceptions to the rule of what is generally a well functioning police force. Is this true? If it is true then why is this being pushed in our faces - worldwide? Is it to hide the failings of American society which is slowly going down the pan? This is much like any other country whose morals and ethics are being diluted by consumerism, media and a focus on products and material things.

Is it to push the anti-2nd amendment agenda? My issue with this is that there is big money in guns, it would be bad for the economy... no?

Is it to instill fear among the populace?

Or is it just simply that bad news sells and these stories are creating clicks and hits for the media outlets?

I'm still left thinking there are problems with the majority of the police force in America but at the same time I'm relying on the media. Hhhhmmm.

a reply to: and14263

I can only speak to what I see. but my opinion is this -

It's about the consolidation of power

We see (and many point out) that it is the minorities that are being killed and/or assaulted in the videos. More whites are killed by cops than blacks so why no outrage? Is it to fan the racial anger towards a war in America? No. Even the idiots in the capitol know how quickly that would descend into chaos.

The left-right paradigm has been pushed so hard in America that it is now ingrained into the fabric of not only politics, but conversation and life decisions as well.

The poor are almost always the victims of police brutality videos yet only the videos of black victims make the nightly news. Why? I say it is due to the anticipated reaction of the viewers and public at large.

Poor blacks will blame rich whites for their woes in life and vote for Democrats hoping for change. Poor whites will blame poor blacks for their woes in life and vote for Republicans hoping for change.

Guns work the same way in the media with a slight twist. The perpetrators of "gun violence" seen on national television are overwhelmingly white. Sandyhook, Aurora, Columbine, etc. Yet how do these stack up against inner city gang violence in DC, Chicago, Detroit, or LA on any given weekend? Again, one side will react and vote Democrat and the other will see the same news and vote Republican.

Society hasn't "fallen", however it is deteriorating. As anyone knowledgeable in history can say, societies do not "fall" without outside influence. They fade into nothing and become something new.

Politicians (the handlers) are balancing on a blades edge. They want to consolidate the power of their bases through the use of the media while at the same time they want to have a country left to control. Fan the flames too much and lose control and all that's left is a firestorm, don't fan them enough and it's not worth the effort.

Control is paramount. Two things are vital and one additional thing is helpful. The first thing that is vital is information (knowing how far to push and when to pull back), the second thing is weakening the opposition (an unarmed population is a slave population). The helpful bit is never letting the unwashed masses become a single entity. Keep them at each other throats (hence only white on black crime is news worthy). Drive wedges into the masses at every available opportunity to ensure they do not unite.

Again I may be wrong as it's just my opinion as an observer.

Flame away

a reply to: 200Plus

No flaming from me.

I've been hooked by the bait of the media and am currently promoting the 'keeping them at each others throats' category.

Very good points well made.