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Are Viruses Demons?

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posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 11:01 PM
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a reply to: randyvs

I'm not so proud of it... wanted to edit it, in fact, but by then it was too late. But the thing is, I'm here in good faith; all I really want to discuss are the facts and their implications. I hope for the same. When someone has already been informed of the facts yet continues to act as though ignorant of them, that's bad faith. That person is not interested in the truth, they are merely arguing for the sake of it. It brings out the beast in me.




posted on Jun, 13 2015 @ 02:33 PM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: randyvs

I'm not so proud of it... wanted to edit it, in fact, but by then it was too late. But the thing is, I'm here in good faith; all I really want to discuss are the facts and their implications. I hope for the same. When someone has already been informed of the facts yet continues to act as though ignorant of them, that's bad faith. That person is not interested in the truth, they are merely arguing for the sake of it. It brings out the beast in me.


I was being a douche too, appologies. But, the facts are, from Montagnier, that viruses were transmitted by means that we do not understand yet. The empirical evidence demonstrates that the viruses traveled by some unknown mechanism (Montagnier assumes electromagnetically arxiv.org...). To deny this empirical evidence, and call it crazy just because it challenges contemporary dogma, is ignorant.

Truth is elucidated by people challenging the norm in light of new empirical evidence. Being complacent and not challenging scientific knowledge is a dead-end; look at how it worked out when people did not challenge religious dogma.
edit on 13-6-2015 by cooperton because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 07:25 AM
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a reply to: cooperton


Truth is elucidated by people challenging the norm in light of new empirical evidence. Being complacent and not challenging scientific knowledge is a dead-end; look at how it worked out when people did not challenge religious dogma.

Science is not religion or politics. The only opinions that count on any scientific subject are those of people with expertise in the subject, and then only on questions which have not been settled by observation and experiment.

Are you suggesting that your question 'are viruses demons?' is a serious challenge to the scientific worldview? That the way science looks at the propagation of infectious agents is due for a reassessment based on this hypothesis?

Wow.



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 08:52 AM
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Is this a real thread? Because if viruses were demons then that would mean that demons aren't extraterrestrial hellspawn at all, but naturally evolved beings just like everything else on this planet. You know because we can trace virus evolution and all that...



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 08:38 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Is this a real thread? Because if viruses were demons then that would mean that demons aren't extraterrestrial hellspawn at all, but naturally evolved beings just like everything else on this planet. You know because we can trace virus evolution and all that...


Demons, as described across many cultures, blamed for disease, etc, may be what we now call viruses. Unseen terrors.


originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: cooperton


Truth is elucidated by people challenging the norm in light of new empirical evidence. Being complacent and not challenging scientific knowledge is a dead-end; look at how it worked out when people did not challenge religious dogma.

Science is not religion or politics. The only opinions that count on any scientific subject are those of people with expertise in the subject...


Yes. Luc Montagnier won a Nobel Prize for discovering HIV (a virus). He now is claiming, from observable evidence, that DNA (of viruses) can be transmitted electromagnetically: arxiv.org...




Are you suggesting that your question 'are viruses demons?' is a serious challenge to the scientific worldview? That the way science looks at the propagation of infectious agents is due for a reassessment based on this hypothesis?

Wow.


No, Montagnier's research is challenging the current worldview that the DNA of viruses can only be transmitted materially. From this, I hypothesize (no need for you to be condescending, It's only a hypothesis), that since our brain, among many other (if not all) tissues of the body, emit and receive electromagnetic signals...

then people's weak mental states may be creating niches for viruses: as was the case with "demons".
edit on 15-6-2015 by cooperton because: the DNA of Viruses travel electromagnetically, not the whole virus.



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 09:01 PM
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originally posted by: cooperton


Yes. Luc Montagnier won a Nobel Prize for discovering HIV (a virus). He now is claiming, from observable evidence, that viruses travel electromagnetically: arxiv.org...



Know how I can tell you never read that paper? Hint: never says anything like that.



posted on Jun, 15 2015 @ 09:08 PM
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originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: cooperton


Yes. Luc Montagnier won a Nobel Prize for discovering HIV (a virus). He now is claiming, from observable evidence, that viruses travel electromagnetically: arxiv.org...



Know how I can tell you never read that paper? Hint: never says anything like that.


I honestly appreciate your critique, you really make me watch my words. This is a good thing.

Above post edited to say "DNA of virus", not the whole virus. To further the conclusion, the DNA, RNA, etc, is all that is required for a virus to form a capsid via the host cell's machinery, and thus physically manifest the virus.
edit on 15-6-2015 by cooperton because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2015 @ 12:31 AM
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originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: cooperton


Yes. Luc Montagnier won a Nobel Prize for discovering HIV (a virus). He now is claiming, from observable evidence, that viruses travel electromagnetically: arxiv.org...



Know how I can tell you never read that paper? Hint: never says anything like that.


I honestly appreciate your critique, you really make me watch my words. This is a good thing.

Above post edited to say "DNA of virus", not the whole virus. To further the conclusion, the DNA, RNA, etc, is all that is required for a virus to form a capsid via the host cell's machinery, and thus physically manifest the virus.


I don't believe that he says the DNA or RNA travels anywhere either. If it's the paper you referred to earlier in the thread, he's claiming that it emits low frequency EM.



posted on Jun, 16 2015 @ 01:57 AM
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I think we should look more at the containers that held the viruses and the legitimacy of experiment rather than saying its demons. Thats a bit outlandish.



posted on Jun, 16 2015 @ 04:33 AM
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a reply to: cooperton

And why do you believe yourself qualified to formulate hypotheses in microbiology? Have you studied the subject, even to bachelor's degree level?



posted on Jun, 16 2015 @ 04:38 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam


Know how I can tell you never read that paper? Hint: never says anything like that. If it's the paper you referred to earlier in the thread...[/quote ]
Yes, it is the same paper, and yes, he evidently has not read even the abstract.

Got to hand it to him. For sheer effrontery, claiming familiarity with a scientific study one has not even looked at takes some beating.



posted on Jun, 16 2015 @ 07:09 AM
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originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Is this a real thread? Because if viruses were demons then that would mean that demons aren't extraterrestrial hellspawn at all, but naturally evolved beings just like everything else on this planet. You know because we can trace virus evolution and all that...


Demons, as described across many cultures, blamed for disease, etc, may be what we now call viruses. Unseen terrors.


But we CAN see viruses...



posted on Jun, 16 2015 @ 11:10 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Is this a real thread? Because if viruses were demons then that would mean that demons aren't extraterrestrial hellspawn at all, but naturally evolved beings just like everything else on this planet. You know because we can trace virus evolution and all that...


Demons, as described across many cultures, blamed for disease, etc, may be what we now call viruses. Unseen terrors.


But we CAN see viruses...


unseen to the people back then. Now, with modern technology, we have been able to observe them directly. To the naked eye, viruses are invisible.


originally posted by: Bedlam
I don't believe that he says the DNA or RNA travels anywhere either. If it's the paper you referred to earlier in the thread, he's claiming that it emits low frequency EM.


Sounds like you only read the abstract (I don't blame you, I often would do that for school projects). It was observed that the DNA of viruses were able to be transmitted electromagnetically; this was successful 12/12 times, and also worked for bacterial DNA.

from the section 2.1. Transmission of DNA sequence through waves and water

"The result was that a DNA band of the expected size
of the original LTR fragment was detected. It was further verified that this DNA had a
sequence identical or close to identical to the original DNA sequence of the LTR. In fact, it
was 98 % identical (2 nucleotide difference) out of 104. This experiment was found to be
highly reproducible (12 out of 12) and was also repeated with another DNA sequence from a
bacterium, Borrelia burgdorferi, the agent of Lyme disease. It was shown clearly that the water
nanostructures and their electromagnetic resonance can faithfully perpetuate DNA information."

This is exciting, not something to refuse because it challenges contemporary dogma. Sure, my hypothesis of viruses being the physical manifestation of demons is a long-stretch, but considering the commonalities of the two, it is worth questioning whether or not these entities are one and the same. You can refuse my hypothesis, but you must consider a reproducible experiment which demonstrates that DNA can be transmitted electromagnetically.
edit on 16-6-2015 by cooperton because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2015 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: cooperton

Then clearly the ancients were wrong about their claims on illness being demons. You just disproved your own thread.



posted on Jun, 16 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: cooperton

Then clearly the ancients were wrong about their claims on illness being demons. You just disproved your own thread.


The same entity they named demons, we named viruses.



posted on Jun, 16 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: cooperton

Humans called them demons (because they didn't understand them) in the past and were wrong (as you have demonstrated) and now humans call them viruses and attempt to explain how they work and where they come from.



posted on Jun, 16 2015 @ 08:58 PM
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originally posted by: cooperton
Sounds like you only read the abstract (I don't blame you, I often would do that for school projects). It was observed that the DNA of viruses were able to be transmitted electromagnetically; this was successful 12/12 times, and also worked for bacterial DNA.

You can refuse my hypothesis, but you must consider a reproducible experiment which demonstrates that DNA can be transmitted electromagnetically.


Sure you want to take that position? Maybe go and actually read the paper?

I invite you to re-read that section for understanding. Also, maybe come back with a few critiques of the overall experimental design. I certainly had some even on the first pass.



posted on Jun, 16 2015 @ 09:00 PM
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No, they're not demons.

In the Middle Ages, many religion based doctors assumed that many illnesses were caused by possession.

Modern day science knows differently, and to still believe that viruses are demons is ridiculous.



posted on Jun, 17 2015 @ 11:12 AM
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originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: cooperton
Sounds like you only read the abstract (I don't blame you, I often would do that for school projects). It was observed that the DNA of viruses were able to be transmitted electromagnetically; this was successful 12/12 times, and also worked for bacterial DNA.

You can refuse my hypothesis, but you must consider a reproducible experiment which demonstrates that DNA can be transmitted electromagnetically.


Sure you want to take that position? Maybe go and actually read the paper?

I invite you to re-read that section for understanding. Also, maybe come back with a few critiques of the overall experimental design. I certainly had some even on the first pass.


I already said the DNA does not dematerialize, travel electromagnetically, and then rematerialize; rather, it emits a signal and water is the womb for this signal.

"Now also the tube containing water emits EMS, at the dilutions corresponding to those positive for EMS in the original DNA tube. This result shows that, upon 7 Hz excitation (Schumann Resonance), the transmission into pure water of the oscillation of the nanostructures initially originated from DNA has been achieved."

This signal may be causing the propagation of viruses. The hypothesis: Water in cells harbor the EM signal and develop the parasitic virus via the cell's nucleotide monomers and enzymatic machinery. This is similar to the current idea as to how viruses propagate, except it is based on electromagnetics rather than the virus physically injecting its DNA into the host. viruses cannot propagate without the host, demons are nothing without someone to possess:

"When the unclean spirit may go forth from the man it walketh through waterless places seeking rest..." (Luke 11:24)

"And, when the unclean spirit may go forth from the man, it doth walk through dry places seeking rest, and doth not find" (Matthew 12:43)


edit on 17-6-2015 by cooperton because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2015 @ 08:00 PM
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originally posted by: cooperton

I already said the DNA does not dematerialize, travel electromagnetically, and then rematerialize; rather, it emits a signal and water is the womb for this signal.


"It was observed that the DNA of viruses were able to be transmitted electromagnetically; this was successful 12/12 times, and also worked for bacterial DNA."

"You can refuse my hypothesis, but you must consider a reproducible experiment which demonstrates that DNA can be transmitted electromagnetically."

Sure sounded like you wrote that it was transmitted electromagnetically. My bad.




"Now also the tube containing water emits EMS, at the dilutions corresponding to those positive for EMS in the original DNA tube. This result shows that, upon 7 Hz excitation (Schumann Resonance), the transmission into pure water of the oscillation of the nanostructures initially originated from DNA has been achieved."


Yeah, I get it, he wants to marry homeopathy with Schumann resonances, thus creating a nuclear meltdown of quantum woo. Montagnier was always sort of whack, but it's like he's trying to combine every fringey hypothesis into one masterful woo combination.

There's just a few issues. One, the theory doesn't really hold water, if you read his theoretical basis, it's a bit off. He's invoking a string of "putatives" in that he THINKS that water can hold data, and he THINKS that it's due to an unobserved electron grouping, and he THINKS that somehow, as yet unresolved, that data can be communicated from one vial to another, and he THINKS that somehow, in the target vial, the putative electron groupings are reconstructed, and he THINKS somehow that causes nucleic acid synthesis in organisms in the target vial to match.

That's a lot of steps, and most of them require "exciting new hypotheses" to fulfill.

But what has he actually got for proof? He claims to be able to measure a low frequency EM signal originating from a vial of water, and that is proof that all these steps have occurred. Or at least the first few, and he posits the rest.

He totally dodges the question of how this transfer occurs. You'd have thought he'd have tried to pin that down, after all, he can replicate it at will, no? But he does not.

More, his sample size is small, his measuring technique depends on purpose built equipment, he's a True Believer in his own effect and he didn't blind the experiment. His controls were insufficient as well. And I haven't found where anyone has replicated it, other than himself and his associates.

If you're going way way way out on a limb of logical leaps, you need a lot of grindingly methodical analyses. The data in his paper and his approach are not very convincing, and it's not just me that feels that way.

It's a bit like this...



...only Montagnier has it more like "then another miracle occurs, then another miracle occurs..."

One might also ask why other structures weren't copied. Like proteins. Or hell, why not fatty acids, or carbohydrates, or any other thing? Did they look for that? No. PCR is amazingly adept at replicating contamination, and why look! The vials are replicating something that's in that lab.

Could that have been due to contamination? NAH, it's water memory-biophoton-schumann resonance-homeopathy transmission.



This signal may be causing the propagation of viruses. The hypothesis: Water in cells harbor the EM signal and develop the parasitic virus via the cell's nucleotide monomers and enzymatic machinery. This is similar to the current idea as to how viruses propagate...


Not particularly. You have a lot of problems with this, physically, that he magically doesn't address at all. Like, for instance, bandwidth issues.




"When the unclean spirit may go forth from the man it walketh through waterless places seeking rest..." (Luke 11:24)

"And, when the unclean spirit may go forth from the man, it doth walk through dry places seeking rest, and doth not find" (Matthew 12:43)



You think viruses walk? Speak? The Koine would seem to indicate that a demon is a spirit somewhat analogous to an angel.



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