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Qatar to be stripped of 2022 World Cup, according to country's whistleblower

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posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: Legman

So are you suggesting your ok with countries bribing FIFA in order to get the votes to hold a major sports event?

If so what does that say about the country in question? Further what does it say about the people running FIFA?




posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra
Didn't I just answer this? Or is this beer messing with my head already?



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: Legman
a reply to: Xcathdra
Didn't I just answer this? Or is this beer messing with my head already?


Actually no you didn't answer it. You side stepped the question talking about Brazil. No where in your response does it come remotely close to answering what I asked.

So, again -

* - Are you ok with countries bribing FIFA in order to get the votes to hold a major sports event?

* - If so what does that say about the country in question? Further what does it say about the people running FIFA?

edit on 7-6-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 01:59 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Legman
a reply to: Xcathdra
Didn't I just answer this? Or is this beer messing with my head already?


Actually no you didn't answer it. You side stepped the question talking about Brazil. No where in your response does it come remotely close to answering what I asked.

So, again -

* - Are you ok with countries bribing FIFA in order to get the votes to hold a major sports event?

* - If so what does that say about the country in question? Further what does it say about the people running FIFA?


1) Yes... Fifa had rules. Underground rules and every country in the world... EVERY ONE OF THEM bribed, begged, threatened, and stole trying to get to host the world cup.

2) It says they played by the immoral rules that everyone else did.


Like I said... clean up FIFA... CLEAN IT UP. But you cannot justify taking away those countries already awarded the Cup. They played by the rules and won out being the better bribers. Just like the last 10 World cup countries did.



Clear enough?

Cheers



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 02:03 PM
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The entire organization is corrupt and should be dismantled. Sad really but this is what happens when you have poor leadership in upper and mid levels.



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: Legman

1) Yes... Fifa had rules. Underground rules and every country in the world... EVERY ONE OF THEM bribed, begged, threatened, and stole trying to get to host the world cup.


Again are you ok with that? I ask because you are specifically avoiding answering that question for some reason. To me it seems as if you are ok with nations bribing in order to get something they want. I don't give a rats ass that other countries do it. I am specifically asking if you are ok with it. If so why? Or is it only ok if certain countries do it?




originally posted by: Legman
2) It says they played by the immoral rules that everyone else did.


Like I said... clean up FIFA... CLEAN IT UP. But you cannot justify taking away those countries already awarded the Cup. They played by the rules and won out being the better bribers. Just like the last 10 World cup countries did.


Actually no they didn't play by the rules. If they did then surely you can point out in the FIFA bylaws where it covers countries being able to bribe FIFA reps for votes.

Secondly, the manner in which you used all caps when talking about all nations. Yes, the US has had members bribing FIFA. Why do you think the FBI is involved and pursuing criminal charges? It stems from their investigation into Chuck Blazer and why he never paid taxes on $151 million in bribes he received while selling FIFA votes.


This is also important for those who think the US is targeting Russia. I noticed their coverage failed to mention the fact it started with an investigation into a US citizen and went from there.




originally posted by: Legman
Clear enough?

Cheers


not really no.. Your answers still side stepped my questions. It tells me you are ok with bribes being used in order to obtain votes. It tells me that you are ok with corruption so long as it benefits something you support. I think you support it because of Russian involvement. I think you support it because it allows you to paint the US as the bad guy, again.

I say that because of your inability to directly answer a personal question. Your answers are phrased in defensive tone that specifically puts blame on anyone but the nations in question who just got caught bribing FIFA. I am sure if it was the US potentially losing a world cup you would be all for the investigation and national responsibility.



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

There are many legitimate reasons why Qatar should never have been awarded the World Cup in the first place.
Anyone who has even a rudimentary knowledge of football knows this.

And anyone who has taken even a slight interest in the World Cup knows that the bidding process has always been somewhat questionable.

But I think the corruption reached new heights under Blatter and his cronies.

I'll be amazed if the 2022 tournament goes ahead in Qatar.
Judging by what I've read - I'm sure there's much more to come out - I think Australia probably made the best case to hold that World Cup.

As for Russia in 2018 - I think that might be a different matter altogether.
I think a politically expedient decision will be made and they'll keep it.

If they do get stripped of it then I think there's only three other nations capable of holding the 2018 competition in such short notice - England, Germany and the US.

FIFA has long been a corrupt and amoral organisation and radical reform is required if it is to regain any semblance of respectability.
But I suspect it may just be a reflection of how 'big business' is conducted in general.

As a slight aside, I wouldn't be surprised if the International Olympic Committee, IOC, is the next organisation that comes under scrutiny.



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn




As a slight aside, I wouldn't be surprised if the International Olympic Committee, IOC, is the next organisation that comes under scrutiny.


Agreed.

FIFA, and the IOC, are run by what amounts to bandit kings. What's in it for them to support your bid.

I can imagine there's more than a bit of it in all of the large sporting events...American SuperBowl.

They're events run by humans...corruption is endemic in all human endeavors.

To be quite honest, I grew up dirt poor, if someone offered me multi-millions to vote for their bid??? Not sure what I'd do. I like to think I wouldn't take it, but y'know?



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: seagull



...... if someone offered me multi-millions to vote for their bid??? Not sure what I'd do. I like to think I wouldn't take it, but y'know?


I made exactly the same point to a couple of friends in the pub on Friday.
Imagine the difference it could make not so much to your own life but to that of your children and grandchildren?



They're events run by humans...corruption is endemic in all human endeavors.


Again, I agree entirely.

Money talks and the contents of brown envelopes have helped seal business deals since time immemorial.

I think what's caused so much controversy and brought attention to FIFA's dealings has been the complete lack of reasoning behind the decision to award the 2022 competition to Qatar.
It was so blatant to everyone that the only things that could have swayed such a decision were illegal - it is the only possible explanation.



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 04:03 PM
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a reply to: Legman




Fifa had rules. Underground rules and every country in the world... EVERY ONE OF THEM bribed, begged, threatened, and stole trying to get to host the world cup.


I don't agree with that at all, I actually don't think that England did bribe or attempt to bribe FIFA officials and that is the main reason they didn't get the 2018 World cup.

I doubt very much that the FA would be being quite as vocal as they are and supporting the FBI investigation into corruption if there was a chance that they were going to be implicated themselves any time soon.



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn

did you see the projections of the cost of corruption worldwide?. In some country's it is 25% GDP.
edit on 7-6-2015 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 04:41 PM
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a reply to: Argyll



I don't agree with that at all, I actually don't think that England did bribe or attempt to bribe FIFA officials and that is the main reason they didn't get the 2018 World cup.


I don't doubt for one minute that those responsible for England's bid spent large sums of money on 'entertaining' and 'wining and dining' FIFA representatives.....but nothing on the level that we are hearing about.

And those investigating and / or the other guilty parties will not hesitate to use and exploit any such expenditure.

There is a definite anti-English bias with certain elements of both FIFA and UEFA.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Corruption is rife throughout the world and it takes many forms.
Of course its worse in some places than others.
In certain parts of the world its the accepted thing and people wonder why 'we' express such disgust and surprise at such practices.

Imagine what would be revealed and the subsequent public disgust if some of the accepted practices surrounding foreign aid agencies and charities became public knowledge?



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 04:43 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn

It should be public knowledge.
I normally don't agree with Cameron but he said we all need to tackle it...maybe him first eh lol.



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 04:43 PM
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I think Qatar should be stripped, but Russia keeps it, however i do not believe England should be given the 2022 Championship, Switzerland or China in my opinion.



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: Temudjin

I don't think anyone involved with the England bid would expect to host the 2022 event if Qatar is stripped of it.
Australia seems the best fit for that in my opinion but I personally think the USA would be ok too.

I wonder why you think Switzerland should be entitled to hold it?

England bid for the 2018 World Cup.
Due to the relative closeness of the competition if it was taken away from Russia then as far as I'm aware there are only three viable nations who have the stadia and infrastructure to host the competition at such short notice - England, Germany and the USA.
As England were the only one of the three to originally bid for the competition I'd suggest they would be favourites.

But its a moot point - Russia will host it as planned.



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 05:06 PM
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a reply to: Legman

You do realise that Brazil didn't need to bribe anyone as it was decided the World Cup would go to South America and Brazil was the only realistic candidate.

en.wikipedia.org...

On the bribery front it has long been a part of FIFA's statute.




FIFA’s Code of Ethics, Article 3 says

‘Officials may not abuse their position . . . especially to take advantage of their function for private aims or gains.’



They are the rules everyone was supposed to abide by.

However that all said bribery is endemic in many nations (in fact it's almost accepted as a part of business) . Bribery wasn't even illegal in Switzerland until very recently. Perhaps it is no surprise where FIFA chose it's headquarters?

A case can be made for Russia hosting a World Cup because of it's rich footballing history. However if it has been shown to have cheated the system (Russia claimed all files were destroyed or missing during FIFA's own inquiry) then a re-vote should be made.

Qatar was so obviously a "fix" because it has no football history, and no football clubs or players of any repute. It is the size of Wales and is totally unsuitable to hosting a World Cup in the summer (which was the conditions of the bid). Qatar has probably already began naturalising young Brazilian born footballers ready for the competition in 2022 because Qatar hasn't ever achieved anything in the sport. That's how pathetic this whole affair has been.

Of course no one comes out of this looking particularly good. Michel Platini, head of UEFA, admitted he voted for Qatar for hosts in 2022. Why? Probably because he was persuaded to. France relies on imported oil and gas from Qatar. Chuck Blazer, an America, has admitted to accepting bribes. Even the English FA tried to play down the journalists stories coming out of our media before the World Cup bidding was finished. They also agreed for England to play a meaningless match in Trinidad to try and gain votes from Jack Warner, a man no facing corruption charges himself.


edit on 7/6/15 by mirageman because: edit



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 05:13 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn

England has a political interest, which in my opinion justifies a disq. If Russia lost the 2018 championship its politics not sports. However you can bet that a couple of nations will boycot the Russian championship and call it a farce for Putin. Thats why i vote for Switzerland cause of its neutral stands or China who doesnt give a #.



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 05:18 PM
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a reply to: Temudjin

The one issue with Switzerland is the fact they executed the US arrest warrant and extradition procedures (not that that is a bad thing imo).

It could come across as self serving.



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 05:34 PM
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a reply to: Temudjin



England has a political interest, which in my opinion justifies a disq.


And what 'political interest' would that be?
How on earth do 'political interests' help determine who should or should not host a tournament?

England was one of four bids made for the 2018 games.
If, and its a massive if, Russia is stripped of the tournament then the three original bids should be the only one's considered.
Surely that's reasonable?
And as it would be highly unlikely that the nations involved in the other two bids - joint bids by Belgium / Netherlands and Portugal / Spain - would be able to get the stadia ready and upgrade their respective infrastructure's in time then England is the logical choice.

Surely that's just basic logic and reasoning?

But as I said before, it'll be a moot point.



If Russia lost the 2018 championship its politics not sports.


Why?
Surely if investigations prove that illegal payments were paid to FIFA officials by the Russian FA etc then they will be just as guilty as Qatar may prove to be?

I'd say its more likely to be down to politics that Russia doesn't lose the 2018 games



However you can bet that a couple of nations will boycot the Russian championship and call it a farce for Putin.


No they won't, that's been made pretty clear.



Thats why i vote for Switzerland cause of its neutral stands or China who doesnt give a #.


But neither Switzerland nor China wants to host the games.



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 05:54 PM
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ATS is supposed to be filled with people with deductive reasoning. Blatter might be corrupt or what not, but this is not what this is about. You all fail to understand why Qatar was in the running for this, or why South Africa got it. Its because the white nations are upset with the whole continental rotation, meaning the world cup moves from Continent to continent not leaving anyone out, or having it go to the same continent after 1 turn. Just look at the link on hosts, you will see Europe gets a lot of turns, once Sepp came in it went Europe, Asia, Europe, Africa, South America, Russia(not buddies with the other guys) Asia, and whatever continent would be next in rotation. So what we are looking for here is whether the continental rotation will be abolished and the sequence will include more turns for Europe.


en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 7-6-2015 by chishuppu because: (no reason given)




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