Ditch Thought and Start Being

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: UniFinity

Stress typically arises out of an aversion, or basically when something does not fit ones ideal of what the moment or life should be... that isn't a natural state, but a self created one that has become habit out of a particular continuity of being.

So true. Stress/anxiety is our body's way of saying to us "wtf are you doing???"

And after that you are done. There is nothing else to accomplish that person has transcended birth, death, time...pure conciousness, you are one and one is you.

It really makes you appreciate the ride when you realize this.

a reply to: UniFinity

Well, experiencing reality or the source is enlightenment... there are many levels to the experience, as in our ignorance we keep trying to label it and make it fit something which is exactly what the opposite of reality does. Love etc. are just concepts or essentially empty mental fabrications that we have created and given meaning too.

When I lose someone, these days no matter how close they were... it's not accompanied by personal grief, it's more of a large exhale that their burdens for this life have been laid down. I feel for those that depended on them, those still attached to form that cannot ever fully recover from the loss of a loved one. This typically is seen as cold and uncaring to state in the open though because of our attitudes of it... but death is as natural as a leaf falling from a tree, no one is going to escape it... the fear of it and idea that if we ignore it, that it will not occur or can meet each other again as we once knew each other, is simply delusional thinking to satiate the mind and cope with loss without confronting it directly as a reality.

I'm not thrilled that my passing would create such a suffering in others, so I make sure to let them know I appreciate their care and concern for my well-being, but at the same time... there's simply nothing left I need to do for me, that when I do pass know it was not something I feared or was concerned about except in the hurt my loss would bring them. Despite this, they still don't like even thinking about it... which is understandable death concerned me at one time, and having been declared dead a couple of times... once by friends and twice clinically, I can see how that only has made their clinging to me being here even worse.

The only reason love/compassion arises as it does naturally? Is because even though one may be completely fetter free... life still goes on, when I see people fighting and arguing locally and globally... it's literally so nonsensical, part of me wants to laugh at the absurdity and part of me understands both sides of the argument equally down to the core, that it's impossible to choose a side but feel empathy for both as they are so mired in delusion that they make things matter... that really and honestly, do not. So, it's like constantly being in the role of mediator.

No matter how heinous a crime or someone could seem? The root behind every single waking action... is some sort of happiness or contentment to come out of their action or actions as a result. It's the underlying motivator behind all we do... the ideologies and methodologies to bring about this happiness, often falls under a lot of scrutiny especially when it removes the happiness or livelihood of others to achieve it.

In it's essence though... can you really sincerely hate anyone, knowing they are simply trying to be happy? Even the ones that hit, hurt, or say mean things to you? Their coping mechanisms and view of reality may be very off center from the normal baseline but some idea that happiness will be the result is the underlying motive. This by no means condones such behavior, but it allows enough empathy to understand them, and open an honest dialogue that can help them over come the behavior, that logically and rationally will not bring them the happiness, they very so much desire from such actions... I knew someone that admitted that they derived happiness from intentionally hurting others, when admonished for their hurtful and destructive behavior. It was simply rooted in a poor coping mechanism, that made them feel powerful over others... because they felt little to no power in their own life, this was a domain they could control to feel some sense of power.

Typically, such control issues manifest as an eating disorder... so it was a surprise to hear a sense of power gain from something so irrational. Misery loves company was no longer as cliche as it sounded. Reminds me of when I said to someone it made no sense a pro-life person would run into an abortion clinic and kill people... seemed to be the opposite of pro-life right? The pro-life person I said this too responded with: Who said anything about killing people? Everyone in an abortion clinic is a demon... so yeah, multiple realities people are operating out of that don't really exist outside of their own mind is quite spectacular.

There is no going back for me though; ignorance is not bliss in any way shape or form... it's a self created delusional construct that once is completely dismantled cannot be rebuilt even if one wanted too. I can't say that I am done, despite enlightened teachers and others saying I am, that ask me to teach... seeing beyond duality, knowing and experiencing form and formlessness, while constantly living in a world full of form and concepts taken as reality, takes a bit of getting used too... when you are no longer really a part of it.

I don't think I am there at the end just yet... despite all of that, but that's possibly because I am still alive and have one singular question, experience has pointed at... but I honestly I don't think it can be or will be answered until my passing in which I don't return. I can only offer myself and others it as a theory of experience from having died a few times... the theory would in no way shape or form, help them on their path and there's honestly, no way I can know it with a certainty or something others could know or test without the experience of death... not being one that likes to reach into the unfounded, or suggest others do the same on faith... it's just something I keep to myself, that like everything else just being an observer will eventually just answer on it's own.

I'm familiar with advaita vedanta... not the same spelling but that has nothing to do with the concept involved to be experienced and absorbed. On the one hand a school of thought says all things arise from a cause but not a singular cause, and then another school says all things arise from a cause but it's a singular cause. The problem that lay between the two? The singular cause that gave rise to all the other causes cannot be known by anything other than faith or suggestion, whereas the cause of your heart burn, can be known directly through experience of those late night tacos.

Considering the first cause is not only impossible to witness in direct experience... but liberation can and does occur without a clue to the first cause; this directly means the very first cause is ultimately moot. Sure, one may feel they embody whatever the first cause was, either in spirit or personification through their being as arms, legs and mouth for a creator deity... people do that all the time and pull off some very questionable actions due to harmful results. But fortunately, belief and faith concepts are not required and honestly become more of a hindrance to practice instead of the crutch they might start out as that is often seen as a benefit... too many delusions can arise out of such practices... when someone is operating under the ignorance of duality, so it's not something I personally advise... already enough people killing and forcing ideologies in the name of various creator deities as it is...

My apologies if my grasp of the philosophy you have cited is a bit off... it's been well over 10 years since I last discussed that concept, it was as rote in understanding as solving math equations at the time.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

thank you for elaborating your thoughts!
no need to apologize. Everyone has unique version in his own head and this is yours. I love it!

For me it seems that you certainly did enough spiritual practises and have a lot of understanding on the subject. For the most part I get it, what you mean by death of people, conflicts, love/hate...and I agree as I have the same views.

The only part which I think differently is the part of your own death and the sadness you would feel for others when this will occur.
From what I understand from reading spiritual books. When you get enlightened your ego is dead and those thoughts should not be present. Who is dying? Who are other people? In the context of this philosophy the masters states that there is only one conciousness as you pointed out. So why would you slice and dice this beautiful play of conciousness with such thoughts of separation if there are no other things than "that" and you are aware of it?

And if you think that you are not there yet, then you are not even though the others tells you otherwise. I think that you will get your answer, just do not stop looking and someday you will be certain of your accomplishment!

Every self-realized person has one thing in common - they are doubtless and because of that fearless. If such feelings are present there is still something left to do or experience.

originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

thank you for elaborating your thoughts!
no need to apologize. Everyone has unique version in his own head and this is yours. I love it!

For me it seems that you certainly did enough spiritual practises and have a lot of understanding on the subject. For the most part I get it, what you mean by death of people, conflicts, love/hate...and I agree as I have the same views.

The only part which I think differently is the part of your own death and the sadness you would feel for others when this will occur.
From what I understand from reading spiritual books. When you get enlightened your ego is dead and those thoughts should not be present. Who is dying? Who are other people? In the context of this philosophy the masters states that there is only one conciousness as you pointed out. So why would you slice and dice this beautiful play of conciousness with such thoughts of separation if there are no other things than "that" and you are aware of it?

And if you think that you are not there yet, then you are not even though the others tells you otherwise. I think that you will get your answer, just do not stop looking and someday you will be certain of your accomplishment!

Every self-realized person has one thing in common - they are doubtless and because of that fearless. If such feelings are present there is still something left to do or experience.

There was a point in time on the path; there was no concern about others delusional duality... as it is not anyones responsibility but their own. I simply wasn't concerned with their thoughts and feelings, yet here is the big but in the middle of that: After the enlightenment task is finally layed down... you are still here. If I am to live to the end of my life expectancy, that's close to another 40 years... when the last beam of the ego house fell into the fire to consume itself, I became very aware of the immense suffering of others. This wasn't seen through the lens as their suffering and attachment was my problem, because ego fell.

I just see so much absolute useless suffering due to clinging of all sorts... if I have 40 more years? Then sitting in absolute freedom, without lifting a finger to point others straight on their path out of compassion and absolute empathy... then an ego would still exist without a doubt, because as selfish as seeking enlightenment is too many; a retreat into the inner word to detach from everything and find unity... snubs a lot of people and it is a very selfish act, perhaps the arising of absolute empathy and compassion for others at the end, is the karmic result being of the selfish path, that works to remove the ego self in the end?

One cannot honestly admit, that renunciation of the world to walk the path, is not a selfish endeavor. It may appear as a paradox, and well it is... but all paradoxes cease to exist in the end, because duality and every concept that holds it up, has fallen from the knife of direct experience, and proper discernment from observing various experiences as they arise and pass enough, that one does not become dualistically deluded about, the root cause of it's arising and passing.

Nirvana, is not something continually experienced as a singular state to be able to get an objective non delusional view of the experience...as karma is always being generated from just being alive. When all karmic past is wiped clean Nirvana arises in the world of duality to be experienced. The path I am walking now, is the same one many a Arhat and Pratyeka walk... and that is the exhaustion of new karma from just being alive. Since new karma is created, the experience of Nirvana is not continuous... the path is to make it continuous by continually exhausting the new karma, or cleaning ones bowl or the morning at noon then again at night, becomes the path... it was already the path, but the view of that it; that's what it was, was unclear before the experience of full awakening.

Of course there is the distinct possibility, that a fetter of continuing to walk the path until full Nirvana can manifest on my death might exist, and that's why there is a doubt. Doubt is a friend on the path, it just means the objective jury on an experience is still out... the fact that my question will only be answered at the time of my death, is what has led to others saying the task is finished. Of course, I always had a fondness of philosophy that dropped myself into many traps of decernmental stagnation over the years. So it is quite possible... and actually becoming more obvious, as I type this that I am putting the cart before the horse and subjectively trying to discern something, that can only be objectively experienced in full on my passing... to solve the riddle. The question I had that led to the doubt, is likely a karmic result of participating on this forum, that deals with so many topics rooted in delusional conceptual constructs people often mistake as an actual existing reality, outside of their own mental construct. So karmic fleas from rolling around here at ATS basically.

Thank you for the engaging dialogue Ufinity

another great post! you have given me a lot to think about. Thanks!

Do you have some recommendations about old or new books, web pages or other materials about spirituality?

I personally am self educated and I like to read. So I read a lot of Vedas, tao te ching, the essene gospels, yoga vashistha sara, dashbod, master of self-realization, dzogchen, muhamudra, sufism,...I try to find really old materials or at least from saints who had respect and saint status in their/current days (like Ramana Maharshi,Rumi,...)

It does not matter to me, from where it came or what religion it belongs. I just like to read this stuff and then try to take the most from it and when I meditate I try the way which is suggested in the books.

And a few books mentioned an interesting thing about enlightenment. In dashbod the author (saint who lived in 17 century I think) tells from his personal experience that this is just one major step and then such a person should try to unify with the brahman. Which is final destination for aspirants on this path.

So to simplify it in this context, it would go like this:
1) meditation and control of your mind/ego
2) recognizing what is true and what is false
3) vanishing the mind and body (false self) eternally during meditation -> samadhi -> this is supposedly where true meditation starts and spirituality becomes science
4) enlightenment / continuous samadhi -> realization of the soul aspect of the self -> at this point old karma is still present and you have to deal with it, but new one is not generated if you are careful and practise continuous devotion/self surrender/sadhana -> at this point some mention even acquiring spiritual powers or siddhis
5) unifying with brahman/pure conciousness -> realization of the all -> old karma is still present, you take on/clean karma from others or disciples -> all various siddhis are yours and you became all knowing, all present, etc,...

They explain why the soul is part of maya/illusion and is not most pure or original part of us. It is an effect and not the cause and therefore you should try to go even past your soul - emptiness becomes fullness and everything visible and non visible merges with you.

What do you think about it from your prospective and experience if you have any more thoughts on the subject other than already posted? I would love to read it.

a reply to: UniFinity
You are unwittingly following the diamond path or vehicle to the end, not sure if you are familiar with the Vajrayana, but it is exceedingly fast and easy to fall into extremes as a result of calling many paths one's path. Many of these extremes of concepts experienced to discern wisdom of experience from them, are harmless that is if you know it is an extreme of being. It has also been my path; 100's of books read and digested on all forms of faith etc. started to go back and read some more at one point. My favorite in the journey just had to be set down, out of wasting time. There was no point, in reading anything pertaining, it's simply the same recipe over and over, just stated in many varied ways. The reason it stuck out years ago, is because it spoke the truth clearly. This time? No need for it's words.

Walking around one-pointed is an extreme of being, and is usually best in a monastery or on retreat. Of course after experience there is no one-pointedness, as there is no arising to discriminate a difference. I suppose saying that is an oddity or curiosity. But when sitting in mediation and samadhi arises, it occurs out of non-attachment to the arising of various mental phenomena... after awhile there just isn't this arising of phenomena, because it depends on you clinging to it; for it to arise; this is the actual experience of dependent origination.

I hope that makes sense. If not here it is in another way. Say I said there was a being I know; you don't know this being in the slightest... and I asked you to tell me everything about this being. What could you honestly tell me? "It's just a being, that you happen to know" right? Because that's all you really have to go on. So any further arising about this being you could have is an illusion without more personal knowledge or experience of this being. This doesn't stop the mind from assuming, presupposing or trying to figure it out on it's own. The cause for it being there to consider? Our conversation, our conversation aside; how could thoughts about this being even arise? Our conversation is the depending origination of thoughts about this being occurring. Without them, you would have no mental concept or construct about any being whatsoever, nor any thoughts concerning it.

So in a sense; you had perfect samadhi on the subject of this being. No good or bad, nor even a thought about this being, until I brought the being up. This is why some say ignorance is bliss, and why idle talk and chatter is frowned upon. Just knowing about this being, can cause a mental attachment where none previously existed. So, it's not the being existing or not existing that is the problem... but the attachment that arises out of knowing it exists is.

Now the problem with knowing it exists, becomes a problem with attachment to it, whether one likes what ever it is or not. Both liking or not liking has an effect on the mind. Liking it too much can cause an extreme, and so can dis-liking it. The middle way is the middle way, because there is neither extreme to fall into, where neutral see's whatever as; it just is, and there are no reasons to have thoughts about it, and if there are thoughts about it, no reason to cling to any of them that would cause an extreme to arise regarding whatever it is.

1) meditation and control of your mind/ego

Mind performs a function, beyond this function it does not inherently exist... the attaching to various things in it as oneself, is what the ego is. Imagine the mind as a drawer, on birth is is essentially empty... over time the drawer fills up with all sorts of things... a veritable junk drawer of experience, does taking certain things out of this junk drawer and dropping them into one labeled "self" make it any less junk? No, but the ego says it isn't junk. It constantly discerns and discriminates the junk. This phenomena of discrimination of consciousness arose, out of identifying threats in our environment needed for survival. Remove that constant threat? The phenomena of discriminating everything in the environment still exists, though not as it once was. This hyper vigilance, doesn't go anywhere; it just gets called studies of science, philosophy... etc. Once the mind quits doing that through practice. It can be placed exactly where it is needed to do some sort of work.

2) recognizing what is true and what is false
Just observe, there's no reason to get involved in the discrimination of it that leads to extremes of thought and delusions about whatever the subject or object is. Things arise and they pass, if something keeps arising? Simply keep watching, the D.O. attachment root that keeps bringing it up, will eventually be uncovered and it will cease to arise, if let go.

3) vanishing the mind and body (false self) eternally during meditation -> samadhi -> this is supposedly where true meditation starts and spirituality becomes science.

Well, it is a solid glimpse of what lay beyond attachment to all these things and concepts that are given meaning by our personal mental constructs of reality. The same as a hand doesn't describe the true nature of a hand, it can be a cup, a vise, a lever, a support etc. exhaust the true nature of a hand? It becomes everything and nothing all at once, it is and it isn't, it exists and it doesn't. When you knock? Is your hand a hand or a hammer?

4) enlightenment / continuous samadhi -> realization of the soul aspect of the self -> at this point old karma is still present and you have to deal with it, but new one is not generated if you are careful and practise continuous devotion/self surrender/sadhana -> at this point some mention even acquiring spiritual powers or siddhis

There is no way to escape karma while alive, one can practice increasing positive karma over negative karma... but being that positive and negative are a duality? Your results may vary... as doing something with the idea that it is good can actually have an outcome labeled as something bad. Intention is the real key to karma... it is not an eye for an eye tooth for a tooth as many expect it to be... simply because good and bad are personally held conceptual judgments. It's best to think of karma as ripples and work on tossing as few into the pond as possible.

5) unifying with brahman/pure conciousness -> realization of the all -> old karma is still present, you take on/clean karma from others or disciples -> all various siddhis are yours and you became all knowing, all present, etc,...

Experiencing; the all or the nothing, self and Brahman are dualistic concepts... delusion of either as existing or non-existing apart from the whole or one is samsara. Siddhis or super natural powers sound nice, great, and all... but they are yet just another experience that arises dependent on practice, to observe. Tempting? At the point they arise, they are as tempting as eating a dead fly off ones windowsill. Of course that hasn't prevented a very small segment, over the course aeons to display them. They can arise with a sense of self still attached, the same as greed or hate can even at higher levels of realization, simply because they are delusional in nature. It's not that they exist or don't exist; it's where they manifest. Being cause for them to manifest in another individual, so they can experience you showing off; is not recommended.

I think the best way to describe "now" or "existing" is working. When I work. I'm in the present moment. No time to think about anything distant because you have to concentrate on doing your job well.

I think the work being physical is also important. Something about movement is reinforcing. It requires focus too. It builds you up.

Work encapsulates it so well too because what else is there? Work produces meaningful things. If you're not producing meaningful things then what're you doing? You're wasting time. You're making your life harder.

But I think I'll always have an inner dialogue; an inner philosopher; an inner theorizer. I can't work 24/7. Inevitably, my thoughts turn. Yet they rarely produce anything of value. Too abstract and/or subjective. And yet I enjoy it because it's a mystery. It's an unsolved quest.

It all comes down to producing things of value.

a reply to: jonnywhite

Indeed full alert consciousness on the task not hindered by extraneous thoughts is extremely productive.

The rest of your post assumes we have an inherent reason for being... other than we are just here. We are taught a sense of purpose, through parents and society at large... many times the purpose parents or society hand us, simply don't fit with who we feel we are; so we choose one for ourselves... this gets termed as self actualization.

Either way, the reason and purpose for us being here is a choice.... there is no reason or purpose for being here, so whether something is futile or worthy of doing; is a personal judgement that, matters only to oneself and perhaps someone else that, shares the belief.

Digging around in the mind is a lot like archaeology, you never know what you may find as the dirt starts adding up... likewise as it is for science, it's important to remain objective about what is found there... no matter what it is you find? There will be a label or concept for it... who's been there digging previously labeling these things, can taint the resulting understanding of whats been found with their own observations.

Many take the idea that since the ground has been already covered; a rote conceptual understanding of what they dug up is all that is needed; to fully understand it... which is not the case at all, this is easily seen by looking at something you were told by a source you deemed "credible" only to find out later through more digging or tripping over it when it popped up again that wasn't the experience you had with it.

Everything is like this... experience varies from person to person, even if they agree on key points; does that make whatever they agree on reality? Nope as soon as someone with a differing experience comes along... that is no longer the reality defined to whatever. This means whatever being observed, is that and it isn't that all at the same time... but how can that be and who is right? It's because everyone is discriminating the phenomenal concepts of things and taking them as reality...instead of actual reality.

In quantum physics; there's the conundrum of wave forms collapsing under observation... the observation does not collapse the wave function; though many think it does, and many think it does not. The reason I say it doesn't collapse it is because observation does not alter results, but the mind observing it does.

The reason I brought up quantum physics; is the internal quest eventually leads to mirroring much of it's findings. In another post, I mentioned a doubt and this is where it stemmed... in the Schrodinger's cat paradox; there is no way to know if the cat is alive or dead at the end of the thought experiment without opening the door... so the cat is said to exist in a superposition state of neither dead and neither alive... this is the same as going beyond duality, in internal practice and experiencing existence and non-existence first hand. Now this superposition says the cat exists as dead in one world and alive in another... and unless the door is opened? You won't know which reality you're in... the alive cat reality or dead cat reality.

This is one of the things that gives multiple dimensions or the multi-verse theory steam and possible viability in the field. It's a fun riddle, and I'll not spoil it... as you said you enjoyed thinking in and of itself. But it did lead to a doubt for a awhile, on the observational experience of; existence and non-existence. But, on further observation, of the state; the koan solved itself... there's no longer a doubt.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

hey! ...you sure know how to articulate things in a simple manner, at least for me. I am very grateful for you replays because they help me see things from another prospective about this stuff. From a prospective of a living, breathing person...and not just the books, which is like a breath of fresh air for me.

yes, first I tried meditation and then I was naturally, like by hidden hand, steered to Buddhism, it was my first cause for falling into this spiritual path/life. So naturally I have heard of the diamond path and middle path and such concepts.

And it is really just like you said it. All of them are just saying the same thing in a different manner. Which is natural because each of us has unique experience and mind with own explanation.
And it is easy to get lost in words and thoughts about this subject. Which can get very ugly if you are not careful. Because you can fall in the same trap - the mind, which is just contrary to the result - get out of the mind and concepts.

As for me, I am not located in a spiritual environment and there are no dedicated/real spiritual persons around. So my goal was:
- first to research as much as possible with an open mind
- find a philosophy which feels the most natural for me
- start living with it in mind all the time and observing as you said it...

And just this week, before your post I decided that I will not waste time reading as much and rather start living So this synchronization with what you said was a really nice "coincidence" for me. And when/if my faith will falter I will refresh my mind with another dose with one of many favourite books. Because I think that many of our problems arises mainly due to forgetting/ignorance because we are similar in a way to moths - they are very attracted to flame until they fly to close and get burned. In similar manner it is with our mind which is always ready and eager to misguide us but only if we are not aware enough of the present moment.

Did you have an experience of samadhi. Could you describe it with your own words if you can and are willing to share? I had one such experience or at least I think it was or at least something like kensho or satori in Zen.

And when I was in that state it was unbelievable. My mind was gone as was my felling for the body. I was totally present and aware like never before, and I felt that there are no borders, like body or mind or space in my room. I was swallowed by peace and tranquillity. Then after some moments I began to think were am I (even though I was home and in my room) and how is this even possible. My mind got flustered and that was it.

It is was hard to just observe but that just means I have some things left to do, until I can manage just and only that

Gee, I hate to bring this level of conversation up a few levels but this is something I've been thinking about for a long time and it does kinda fit this thread.

Since Freud, the whole focus has been on reliving the past and getting in touch with feelings. The whole focus has been on analyzing emotions and consciously expressing them.

Which I think really hasn't benefited many people. In fact, there are studies that show reliving trauma doesn't help.

I not into meditation and really don't want to be but the older I get the more I realize the analyzing stuff I do is really useless. I simply try to be a nice person and not worry about the future or get upset about the past. Which may not be phrased as fancy as yours but it's pretty similar.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Involutionist

It is an act of will to not think, and to do so is to not be, but to struggle against a condition of our being.

For you, maybe. For others, such as myself, it is an act of will TO think, seeing as my minds default is blank.
ETA' It takes willpower to not think. To do so is 'acting'. ' Again, it may be so for you, but it is 'acting' for me to think.

a reply to: Itisnowagain
You said 'would you not agree that only the present happening can be known?' For the most part, yes, however; the past exists in a real and tangible way. Ever look up at the night sky? Quite beautiful, quite simple, and yet it can provoke thought on so many different levels.

originally posted by: 5leepingWarrior

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Involutionist

It is an act of will to not think, and to do so is to not be, but to struggle against a condition of our being.

For you, maybe. For others, such as myself, it is an act of will TO think, seeing as my minds default is blank.
ETA' It takes willpower to not think. To do so is 'acting'. ' Again, it may be so for you, but it is 'acting' for me to think.

Thinking "don't think" is just another layer of thinking. I've tried this in sports to achieve that desired zen state of being "on fire" in basketball, but you can;t think 'don't think', because that itself is actively thinking and leaving you disengaged with the present. The vernacular to describe this state of mind is difficult, but it is intuitively obvious.

If you just BE your uninhibited self, there is no need to "think" because you have become in-tuned with the present thought. If you find yourself thinking too much, allocate you conscious thought to your breath; that is always in-tuned with the present.

a reply to: cooperton
That's just it. I don't think 'don't think', most of the time I really don't think. Like I said, blank. I say most, because sometimes I do Choose(capped for emphasis) to think about things, and I do have what I shall refer to as intrusive thoughts. I do so because these thoughts come unbidden, hold little to no relevance(except for this one time, when it was TOO relevant) and confuse me to no end, because even though I made no choice to think it(the only experience with thinking I have, besides these intrusive ones), these thoughts are invariably voiced in my own voice.
Curiosly, however, though I am usually in a state of just being, I receive none of the benefits mentioned in this thread. I am not enlightened, and I am still very much plagued by doubts and insecurities. At the risk of thread drifting, I do however have a few unexplainable 'skills' so to speak. Heightened spatial awareness, mostly.
1: I enjoy bouncing rubber or otherwise bouncy balls. On multiple occasions, said ball has bounced unexpectedly and rapidly shot behind my head. Without thinking, or turning my head at all, I have on some of these occasions shot my hand behind me and caught the ball. One time, on multiple throws, I was actually able to do this on purpose. I sort of relaxed my eyes, locking them straight ahead, and intentionally threw the ball so it would arc down out of my field of vision. I was able to feel the trajectory of the ball, and caught it on purpose like this no fewer than three times. For sake of clarification, I was laying down on my couch, with my head propped on a pillow, which in turn rested on the arm rest. I could not see behind myself, and only partially above. Eventually however, doubt crept back in and I lost the feeling.
2. You know how in parking lots, there's those strips of dirt/grass and trees lined by curb? One time(from now on just assume unthinking, as I said it is my default state) I was walking on that curb with my eyes closed. I started to lose my balance( I'm very accident prone) and was in danger of falling. Eyes still closed, my hand shot out and grabbed a tree to stabilize myself, though I had no way of knowing that the tree was there.
3. This one fits into the category of unexplained, but I have observed many people to be able to do this, it just happens much more frequently for me. On numerous occasions throughout my life, I have been busy doing a task, when, all of a sudden, I'll look up, directly into the eyes of someone staring at me.
4. Mr Murphy and I are on a first name basis. I have bad luck often, but unusually good luck on trivial things, mainly games, from coin flips to video games. On one occasion, I was playing the treasure chest mini game in the Ocarina of Time. For those of you who have not played said game and/or mini game, the mini game consists of 4 or five rooms with two treasure chests. One contains a random colored rupee(the games currency), and the other contains a key to advance to the next room. The rewards are randomly generated each time, so the simplest option is to wait for a certain item acquired later in the game. I was bored, so I gave it a couple tries. I found that when I moved the character close to a certain chest, I'd get this odd feeling in my mind. I chose the chest that that gave me this feeling, and got the key. I repeated this until I only needed one more key to get to the final room. I approached one chest got that feeling, then second guessed myself and chose the other, wrong, one. Did not experiment further.
I know what many of you are likely thinking. Hell, if it hadn't happened to me, I wouldn't believe me either! That said, I hereby give my Word, my Oath, my Troth that all these things I have written here are true. I am, to say the least, intrigued and astounded by these things, so if anyone else has experienced any such similar things and have any insight/tips/whatever, please don't hesitate to drop me a pm.

BE
HERE
NOW

Kind of the same thing as saying f**k it, but more self-aware and genuine. Or not. A lot of people find a way to utilize BHN as a way to justify their lack of morals/ideals or to justify situational ethics. I prefer hanging with a crowd thats aware of who they once were, what they are right now, and who they are choosing to become. Maybe its an illusion, but it's a healthy illusion. You're creating yourself in this world, tangibly, irreversibly, not just floating in an idea.

But then ive quit trying to be "one with eternity." It happens...

originally posted by: 5leepingWarrior
a reply to: Itisnowagain
You said 'would you not agree that only the present happening can be known?' For the most part, yes, however; the past exists in a real and tangible way.

Where is the past existing in a real and tangible way?

Are you ever not present? If you check, you might find that you are always present seeing whatever is presently appearing.

What is the one thing that you cannot deny? You exist - but what do you exist as?

The belief in a you in the future and the belief in you the past, gives rise to the belief in a you that is separate to all that is. But you are always present and so is everything. There is only presence - and it appears to be happening.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Yah but that would take a great deal of meditation or just finding the off switch in your brain.

a reply to: Itisnowagain
Starlight. Sorry, I thought I had made that clear.
I am always present, but I am not always in the present-or is it the other way around? Such as when I am sleeping, for instance. Daydreams would be another example of this.
The one thing I cannot deny is that There Is. I am here, and everything around me is here, too. And if it turns out that I am really the only 'real' person, and that everything and everyone I have ever known was an illusion? Still doesn't make all this any more or less 'real', to me does it? It would all then exist in my memories.

originally posted by: 5leepingWarrior
a reply to: Itisnowagain
Starlight. Sorry, I thought I had made that clear.
I am always present, but I am not always in the present-or is it the other way around?

You are not IN the present - there is only the present. The present can appear as projections of (an illusory) you in the past or future but what you are never really moves - you are the ever present seer of what is arising presently.

I am here, and everything aroune is here, too. And if it turns out I really the only real person, and that everything and everyone I have ever known was an illusion?

You are not a person - there is just dreaming.

originally posted by: 5leepingWarrior
a reply to: cooperton
That's just it. I don't think 'don't think', most of the time I really don't think. Like I said, blank. I say most, because sometimes I do Choose(capped for emphasis) to think about things, and I do have what I shall refer to as intrusive thoughts. I do so because these thoughts come unbidden, hold little to no relevance(except for this one time, when it was TOO relevant) and confuse me to no end, because even though I made no choice to think it(the only experience with thinking I have, besides these intrusive ones), these thoughts are invariably voiced in my own voice.
Curiosly, however, though I am usually in a state of just being, I receive none of the benefits mentioned in this thread. I am not enlightened, and I am still very much plagued by doubts and insecurities. At the risk of thread drifting, I do however have a few unexplainable 'skills' so to speak. Heightened spatial awareness, mostly.
1: I enjoy bouncing rubber or otherwise bouncy balls. On multiple occasions, said ball has bounced unexpectedly and rapidly shot behind my head. Without thinking, or turning my head at all, I have on some of these occasions shot my hand behind me and caught the ball. One time, on multiple throws, I was actually able to do this on purpose. I sort of relaxed my eyes, locking them straight ahead, and intentionally threw the ball so it would arc down out of my field of vision. I was able to feel the trajectory of the ball, and caught it on purpose like this no fewer than three times. For sake of clarification, I was laying down on my couch, with my head propped on a pillow, which in turn rested on the arm rest. I could not see behind myself, and only partially above. Eventually however, doubt crept back in and I lost the feeling.
2. You know how in parking lots, there's those strips of dirt/grass and trees lined by curb? One time(from now on just assume unthinking, as I said it is my default state) I was walking on that curb with my eyes closed. I started to lose my balance( I'm very accident prone) and was in danger of falling. Eyes still closed, my hand shot out and grabbed a tree to stabilize myself, though I had no way of knowing that the tree was there.
3. This one fits into the category of unexplained, but I have observed many people to be able to do this, it just happens much more frequently for me. On numerous occasions throughout my life, I have been busy doing a task, when, all of a sudden, I'll look up, directly into the eyes of someone staring at me.
4. Mr Murphy and I are on a first name basis. I have bad luck often, but unusually good luck on trivial things, mainly games, from coin flips to video games. On one occasion, I was playing the treasure chest mini game in the Ocarina of Time. For those of you who have not played said game and/or mini game, the mini game consists of 4 or five rooms with two treasure chests. One contains a random colored rupee(the games currency), and the other contains a key to advance to the next room. The rewards are randomly generated each time, so the simplest option is to wait for a certain item acquired later in the game. I was bored, so I gave it a couple tries. I found that when I moved the character close to a certain chest, I'd get this odd feeling in my mind. I chose the chest that that gave me this feeling, and got the key. I repeated this until I only needed one more key to get to the final room. I approached one chest got that feeling, then second guessed myself and chose the other, wrong, one. Did not experiment further.
I know what many of you are likely thinking. Hell, if it hadn't happened to me, I wouldn't believe me either! That said, I hereby give my Word, my Oath, my Troth that all these things I have written here are true. I am, to say the least, intrigued and astounded by these things, so if anyone else has experienced any such similar things and have any insight/tips/whatever, please don't hesitate to drop me a pm.

The experiences you are describing sounds like the a connection to the present. Like you said, doubt always immediately stops us from riding this wave of... perfection(?). This is why faith is so important. We should have faith, in general, and that's when these experiences occur more often. This happens to me in basketball when i get "on fire", but everyone knows you can't just think "oh, I am going to catch on fire right now", it is an indefinable (although I've tried to define it in this thread) wave of everything going perfectly.

The times we experience this is just the tip of the iceberg, I think it is implying a great human potential that is seldom experienced.