Ditch Thought and Start Being

read my name here, just had to comment

whoa you all are thinking way too much
just be.. living your life, after all, you chose to have this human experience

Accidental double post. Was thinking too much.

originally posted by: arpgme

We are the children of Our Father in Heaven and The Child has the likeness of The Father. We are Creators/Mind thought up by the Original Mind/Creator (God/Heavenly Father).

I think the reunion with that Divine Mind.... the kyballion talks of this in detail ... IS to be. Yes we are still "thinking" but it is all in coherence with the Mind that created our universe. Whereas when we "think", in the egoic sense, we are alienating ourselves from this flow and becoming disharmonious with the Present Thought where the Divine Mind resides. This Divine Mind made everything through it's Word (see John chapter 1).

Does our free will go out the window when we are Present with Mind's Thought? I think this is the existential dilemma that occurred with Adam and Eve. They were part of the Divine, and Eternal with It. Then egoic thought, that is, thought astray from Divine Thought, Caused imperfection, thus the "knowledge of Good and Evil" (prior to this they only knew Perfection). A return to Eternity involves us re-communing with this Presence that Adam and Eve left.

originally posted by: tridentblue
a reply to: cooperton

We exist in a universe where we humans seem to be alone. But nothing could be further from the truth. We are the universe, we are the stuff that traveled across vast amounts of space and time to become us, and that includes our consciousness: consciousness is no alien to this universe, it is fundamentally of it, it is what it is made out of, moreso than any other construct in our minds.

Yet so many people believe that matter pre-dates consciousness. Consciousness (Divine Mind) is what made everything (John chapter 1). In "Man, Minerals, and Masters" Charles Littlefield discusses his experiments in which he was able to cause mineral water to generate mineralizations that took the form of what he was thinking (I have the full PDF if anyone wants to read it). E = mc^2 demonstrates that matter is nothing but energy. We are stuck in material, or egoic, thought. We've forgotten our origins and came up with bogus (although very, very convincing!) theories as to how we came into existence. But it's quite simple, Divine Mind created the universe:

"Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, that is a marvel, but if spirit came into being because of the body, that is a marvel of marvels."" (Thomas 29)

By ditching (egoic) thought we can commune with the Eternal dwelling place in concordance with Divine Mind. When I went to look up a bible passage for this post this was the "verse of the day":

Lord, you have been our dwelling place
throughout all generations.
Before the mountains were born
or you brought forth the whole world,
from everlasting to everlasting you are God. (Psalm 90:1-2)

What are the odds such a relevant verse is the "verse of the day"? The Divine Mind speaks to us and is calling us home, by dismantling our egoic thoughts we are able to tune-in.

originally posted by: Involutionist
a reply to: cooperton
There are many rooms in thy father's mansion...

a reply to: TzarChasm

What is detachment according to you?

I ask because nothing I mentioned has anything to do with detachment.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Why must I attend to all "present arising" except for thought, discernment and words? It sounds like a part of reality you and itsnowagain are against and would gladly miss out on. This is the diminishing of faculties, not the strengthening of them. This is the silencing of "present arising".

The methodology is false. There is no arising occuring at all. It castrates more than it enhances. To me, it sounds ridiculous.

My apologies, if that seemed to be what I was insinuating for you to do. I was simply clarifying the present arising that itsnowagain keeps confounding you with in thread after thread.

I have a great fondness for reason and philosophy myself; at one time it was a bit too much of a fondness ie. throwing other things out of balance. It's simply a part of a whole, there's no reason to dip into an extreme and be against it... it has it's function and it has it's limitations; it's simply a tool of consciousness the same as quiescence... typically, it's a tool out of balance and not that sharp; but it is what it is and it's significance or insignificance is a personal measurement... hopefully, a judgement of significant or not; would come after personal experience with it... but I'm not prone to wishful thinking, and respect your opinion in lieu of experience enough, to bother you with it no longer.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

No, my apologies. I was mistaken.

I do know of the things you're talking about, and you're absolutely right, it is a personal measurement. Nonetheless you explained it well. It seems you've been there.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Why must I attend to all "present arising" except for thought, discernment and words? It sounds like a part of reality you and itsnowagain are against and would gladly miss out on. This is the diminishing of faculties, not the strengthening of them. This is the silencing of "present arising".

I think you misunderstand.
I did not say do not attend to thoughts or words arising - if the present arises as thought or words so be it. But do you realize that you cannot be aware of anything but the present arising? It is impossible to be aware of any other time - past and future stories arise now (as thought - past and future thoughts arise now). You cannot be aware of the actual world (you cannot have direct conscious contact with the actual world) because you cannot see or hear, taste or smell 'the world'. The 'world' is just made of ideas (concepts) that you personally have about it - you may have much knowledge 'about' the world but you cannot see or know it directly.

The methodology is false. There is no arising occuring at all. It castrates more than it enhances. To me, it sounds ridiculous.

Can you not hear any sounds arising now (presently)? Or feel any sensations arising now? Maybe you have not noticed that sound and sensation (and thoughts) appear and then go (arise and subside) - all is arising and subsiding - nothing stays.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I think you misunderstand.
I did not say do not attend to thoughts or words arising - if the present arises as thought or words so be it. But do you realize that you cannot be aware of anything but the present arising? It is impossible to be aware of any other time - past and future stories arise now (as thought - past and future thoughts arise now). You cannot be aware of the actual world (you cannot have direct conscious contact with the actual world) because you cannot see or hear, taste or smell 'the world'. The 'world' is just made of ideas (concepts) that you personally have about it - you may have much knowledge 'about' the world but you cannot see or know it directly.

Except you're not aware of anything called "present arising" or the present, because you are unaware of most of it. You are more unaware of the present than you are aware of it. You are only aware of some things and objects. "The present" is an idea, and is made of ideas. The same with "present arising", which I think is meaningless.

We can be aware of the world, say in a view from space, or by looking at a tree. If we weren't, why do we construct maps of it? We have knowledge and awareness of the world. There is nothing else to be aware of, especially a time called "present arising".

Can you not hear any sounds arising now (presently)? Or feel any sensations arising now? Maybe you have not noticed that sound and sensation (and thoughts) appear and then go (arise and subside) - all is arising and subsiding - nothing stays.

I hear sounds, but they do not arise in any way. A rock does not arise when you look at it, or subside when you look away from it.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope


Except you're not aware of anything called "present arising" or the present, because you are unaware of most of it. You are more unaware of the present than you are aware of it. You are only aware of some things and objects. "The present" is an idea, and is made of ideas. The same with "present arising", which I think is meaningless.

Regardless of whether it is possible to be aware of the whole present or not - would you not agree that only the present happening can be known? The present can happen as past thoughts (memory) or future thoughts (anticipation).

I hear sounds, but they do not arise in any way. A rock does not arise when you look at it, or subside when you look away from it.

In your direct experience things (sights, sounds, thoughts) appear and disappear all the time but what you are never comes or goes.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Regardless of whether it is possible to be aware of the whole present or not - would you not agree that only the present happening can be known? The present can happen as past thoughts (memory) or future thoughts (anticipation).

I do not see the present as a thing or place in which things happen. So no, I do not agree.

In your direct experience things (sights and sounds) appear and disappear all the time but what you are never comes or goes.

No, things (entities and objects), do not disappear and appear all the time. When you stop looking at something, it is because you stopped looking at it. You turned your head, closed your eyes, whatever the case may be, but the thing does not disappear.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Regardless of whether it is possible to be aware of the whole present or not - would you not agree that only the present happening can be known? The present can happen as past thoughts (memory) or future thoughts (anticipation).

I do not see the present as a thing or place in which things happen. So no, I do not agree.

I did not say the present is a thing or a place - maybe you should read it again and not add words.

No, things (entities and objects), do not disappear and appear all the time. When you stop looking at something, it is because you stopped looking at it. You turned your head, closed your eyes, whatever the case may be, but the thing does not disappear.

Again - maybe you should read it again. Notice the bit that says 'in your direct experience'.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I did not say the present is a thing or a place - maybe you should read it again and not add words.

Do you know what a noun is? A noun is a person, place or thing. Why do you keep speaking about it like it is a person, place, or thing when it isn't?

Again - maybe you should read it again. Notice the bit that says 'in your direct experience'.

Experience isn't a place or thing where things appear and disappear.

a reply to: cooperton

Quite beautifully put.
One question comes to mind. Is there a "now"? It seems that the instant we experience a "now" its in the past. Perhaps that's because our human existence is made up of atoms and electrons which are in constant motion? And so if there isn't any "now" we can't experience it because of our human nature so....the Alpha and the Omega would have to exist at a place where there is no motion and therefore....no time as we experience it?

Just a thought.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: cooperton
And so if there isn't any "now" we can't experience it because of our human nature so....the Alpha and the Omega would have to exist at a place where there is no motion and therefore....no time as we experience it?

This was the same logic Plato used to conclude that the world of Form (heaven) is perfect and unchanging, in eternal rest. Plato goes on to say how the world we live in is an image of that world, and "here" motion and change are experienced; all this being an incubation chamber (he calls it a receptacle) for souls to enter the world of Form.

Christian philosophy pretty much says the same thing, the Kingdom should be strived for in one's lifetime, not something hoped for after death. Although both philosophies make a joke out of death (Socrates dies to prove a point, Jesus dies to prove his philosophy transcends death, etc).

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: cooperton
Perhaps that's because our human existence is made up of atoms and electrons which are in constant motion?

Which makes you wonder why the electron is whizzing around its beloved positively charged nucleus at the speed of light. positive attracts negative, shouldn't they unite?

a reply to: artistpoet

Hehe well technically for the individual who "floats away" the world no longer exists

a reply to: Enlil2215

Which is why being in the moment/now/present is stressed.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Maybe, but I would think that if you experience stress than you are not truly in the present because this is not your natural state. Think about what was your mental state as a baby, when you had a true clean state without concepts or thoughts. You did not even know how to speak...were you stressed then ?

If you were you probably cried...what about when you were not stressed or hungry, fully awake and it so happens you just take a poop in the diaper

Bliss!

a reply to: UniFinity

Stress typically arises out of an aversion, or basically when something does not fit ones ideal of what the moment or life should be... that isn't a natural state, but a self created one that has become habit out of a particular continuity of being.

Our mind can return to the natural state, stress doesn't arise from it... because there is nothing ever that can be conceived within it to hold onto... we have stress simply because of the delusional meanings and emotions we have attached to the things perceived as meaningful. I have people attached to me, it is out of compassion to them that I eat and continue about living. If no one would suffer from my passing; then I would cease the needs, let go of maintaining this body... allowing it to die.

That may sound morbid, but purpose isn't inborn; it is created by self and other. Others are my purpose for continuing on being here, without that purpose? There's simply no reason to remain, because unless we live for others? There is no other purpose for being here beyond selfish ones.

Even if we have removed all of our fetters, it does not imply that others fetters to us have been severed... it's quite the conundrum, without understanding, love, and compassion towards them... after all they have it for you; or they wouldn't care if you sodded off and died right? :p

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

well I don't fully understand your point. Because it seems to me that first you have to help yourself and after you understand yourself (who am I?), only then you can truly help others in a best way possible.

when we are totally absorbed in the present, without any awareness of our ego or body and mind then we are that (tat twam asi) and our natural state is of love and compassion. Just like there is gravity which makes the water flow naturally down the stream, there is a pure mind which naturally with compassion and love responds to what is. With this I mean the turiya "state" where you or me is not present and everything just is.

But this IS is far from emptiness or void which I think you implied with your post? It is true that you are void of personal feelings and thoughts about people or things which are close to you but far from empty. Opposite of empty, because I think that there was never anyone who comes back from it, to normal egoistic state once that is experienced because they feel complete, content or bliss.

But in all honesty, this for now is all just in imagination for me, because I have not experienced that state. But even that state is not final. I think that there is even possible to unite fully with this IS once after you are in turiya which is just what happens naturally when you drop the body and mind.

And after that you are done. There is nothing else to accomplish that person has transcended birth, death, time...pure conciousness, you are one and one is you.

I got this stuff from advaita vedanta philosophy...