In 180 Seconds You Will Be Voting For Bernie Sanders

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

From what I've come to know about you, Sanders sounds like exactly who would make you happy. So vote for him if you can. However, I know for sure that he is not what I want. I base that on official statements made by him ... not based on partisan crap that comes out of nonsense sites like RAWSTORY or BRIETBART, etc.

Not everyone wants the same thing or the same direction for this country.
Some want a more socialist bigger gov't type system.
That's fine.
Some want a smaller gov't with less expense.
That's fine.
We can all vote for what we want.
So it's all good.

a reply to: Pants3204

Sadly the problem lies in the fact that both are so intertwined

Right.

I agree.

a reply to: FlyersFan

From what I've come to know about you, Sanders sounds like exactly who would make you happy.

Well....I don't think in terms of anyone else "making me happy."

I think about what the candidates can do for the big picture.

But, yes, he stands for what I "think is right."

Thanks for paying enough attention to understand me, in any case.


I know it easn't easy, and I do appreciate you also.
You're right, it's all good.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Here is a wiki about Social Democracy.

I wonder how close this describes Bernie?

Lots of variables including some Marx.

Social Democracy

I'm happy you took the time to look it up - well done. Marx was a billiant man. And it's hard for me to understand why he isn't taught beside Adam Smith. Compare and Contrast and come to your own conclusions. Marx was an is falsely demonized by the Cold War and Corporate demigods as Adam Smith is lionized.

What we saw in the Soviet Union and in The People's Republic of China is not Marxism - it is State Controlled Capitalism.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

From what I've come to know about you, Sanders sounds like exactly who would make you happy. So vote for him if you can. However, I know for sure that he is not what I want. I base that on official statements made by him ... not based on partisan crap that comes out of nonsense sites like RAWSTORY or BRIETBART, etc.

Not everyone wants the same thing or the same direction for this country.
Some want a more socialist bigger gov't type system.
That's fine.
Some want a smaller gov't with less expense.
That's fine.
We can all vote for what we want.
So it's all good.

And what do you want - what is important to you? And, relevant to the current subject Bernie Sanders, how would a Sanders Presidency hurt your interests. Your interests? Not society as a whole just your personal interests?

originally posted by: Tarzan the apeman.
a reply to: FyreByrd
www.rawstory.com...
fff.org...
informationstation.org...
Some links I found that were a decent read. What I took out of them was that we are borrowing tax money that we haven't yet collected. Also the higher the debt the more we will end up paying for goods, higher interest rates. Debt done responsible isn't a bad thing, but our government is spending like drunken sailors. Our government doesn't no how to spend money.

Not the sources I would want to count on to inform me of actual consequences of the debt.

I'd look over the Myth's again, along with the caveats at the end, and see what and how your souces are saying, what they are leaving out.

Do they tell you both sides of the issue? Do they mention areas of controversy among economists?

And, if you carefully read my reference, you will see that it mentions those instances of how the debt - we are not taking deficeits here, affects 'some' higher wage earners. For regular folk, it has no effect.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
a reply to: ugmold

While I agree with Bernie on some things, his overall approach is Socialism. There are no ifs, ands, or buts...about it. I refuse to live in his kind of economy. I wish people had his grasp of Corporatism and Fiat banking fraud, but he himself wants a Socialist Economy/Democracy Utopia when all is said and done.

His Presidency would expand a ground-up economy and would focus so much on "social justice" that only the poorest and the laziest would be rewarded withe our Bill of Rights...and then some. He's too much of an idealist and his pet ideal is failed policy.

That's who he is at the end of the day. No dice.

You are living in a 'socialist' economy. The only place you'll find 'libertarianism' is in failed countries with warlords. The US subsidizes big business and big wealth every day - it just doesn't do the same for flesh and bone persons.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Well now might be a good opportunity to give Bernie some advice.

What Social Democratic/Marx type programs would you suggest he pursue?

And of course, *how to* is the big question.

Picture yourself as President Sanders' top advisor.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
a reply to: ugmold

While I agree with Bernie on some things, his overall approach is Socialism. There are no ifs, ands, or buts...about it. I refuse to live in his kind of economy. I wish people had his grasp of Corporatism and Fiat banking fraud, but he himself wants a Socialist Economy/Democracy Utopia when all is said and done.

His Presidency would expand a ground-up economy and would focus so much on "social justice" that only the poorest and the laziest would be rewarded withe our Bill of Rights...and then some. He's too much of an idealist and his pet ideal is failed policy.

That's who he is at the end of the day. No dice.

You are living in a 'socialist' economy. The only place you'll find 'libertarianism' is in failed countries with warlords. The US subsidizes big business and big wealth every day - it just doesn't do the same for flesh and bone persons.

Those subsidies for big business are the reason we are here complaining about money in politics and "too big to fail" corporations. Remove those subsidies, transition towards a more free and transparent market, and these mega-corps will have to answer to actual competition from small businesses. It's the socialistic market meddling that hurts small companies and helps huge corporations, not to mention high taxes and all kinds of government mandated expenses.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
The last time I voted for Hope and Change I got fisted by the U.S. Government instead.

I reserve my judgement. An idealist isn't always the best presidential choice. The last 8 years have proven that, and I voted for the guy. Twice.

This is illogical, you likely have not learned a dam thing, but you think you have.

Now that something ACTUALLY good comes along, you will think you are wiser to vote for some other buffoon instead amirite ??

Reserving judgement is not anymore sound than giving judgement, you will still not have affected anything, at all, but continue to believe that you are going to be more or less correct next time ??

The facts are simple, the system is nothing really to do with the presidency, and you will likely never learn to grasp this.

originally posted by: AshOnMyTomatoes

originally posted by: lindalinda
Ugh, same old pie-in-the-sky bull#. Free college. Free health care. You seriously buy that it's "free"? You'll pay for it, quite handsomely. This guy doesn't have a chance.

So are people just not aware that there are successful, prosperous, and happy countries on Earth where things like health care and education are free? It's not pie-in-the-sky. The CEOs that run our country want us all to believe that though, because it cuts into their profits.

I read somewhere (sorry don't have source) that the country most often trotted out as a socialist success, Sweden, would be dead last in the US economy if it were a state. I don't recall if that was based on economic output or standard of living or what. And it's really impossible to compare small, relatively homogenous countries with the large, relatively heterogenous U.S. They don't have the same problems we do, although the EU is helping them catch up.

a reply to: ugmold

Cookie-cutter liberal. He sees the problems, but not the solutions. He has a big heart, but a small brain.

Universal healthcare means having a right to other people's money. No, you don't have a right to other people's money. In fact, you have a right to spend your own money how you see fit. You have a right to donate to any cause you see fit. You have a right to withhold your money from causes you don't support, including the US Federal Government.

I prefer to help in ways that actually help, which means not through taxes, and not through government hand-outs.

a reply to: wayforward

He's not a liberal, he's a Democrat socialist. That's even better than a liberal.

Universal healthcare means having a right to other people's money

No. Universal healthcare means that we are actually going to spend tax-payer money on something much more moral and ethical than war and foreign aid to countries that lobby against the american way of life. The money has to come from somewhere, and it makes sense to spend it on healthcare, not warfare.

I prefer to help in ways that actually help, which means not through taxes, and not through government hand-outs

I commend you for that. We can only hope that you give to local charities that account for their funds. Otherwise, you would fall in to the same category as the average American that donates money to large organizations that do not actually help anyone whatsoever. They actually collect money from suckers to make others rich, while they get to claim Americans are the most generous people on Earth.

Wouldn't you rather the money went to feed people that face hunger everyday, than a rich salesmen whom gets to skim 80% off the top before they actually do anything with you money?

a reply to: ugmold

The problem is this was already tried. Everyone heard about Obama for 180 seconds and apparently the idiots outnumber the rest of us who actually have critical thinking skills and look what we got.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: FyreByrd

Well now might be a good opportunity to give Bernie some advice.

What Social Democratic/Marx type programs would you suggest he pursue?

And of course, *how to* is the big question.

Picture yourself as President Sanders' top advisor.

Senator Sanders platform is more substantive then I could ever devise.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: FyreByrd

Well now might be a good opportunity to give Bernie some advice.

What Social Democratic/Marx type programs would you suggest he pursue?

And of course, *how to* is the big question.

Picture yourself as President Sanders' top advisor.

Senator Sanders platform is more substantive then I could ever devise.

And here is an article on Bernie as Major:

John Davis remembers a meeting in 1986 when Bernie Sanders, then the mayor of Burlington, Vermont, confronted the owners of the city's largest affordable-housing complex. The federal program that had subsidized the Northgate Apartments for 20 years had a loophole that allowed the landlords to convert the buildings into market rentals or luxury condos.

"Bernie pounded his fist on the conference table in his office and told the owners, 'Over my dead body are you going to displace 336 working families. You are not going to convert Northgate into luxury housing,'" recalled Davis, who was Sanders's key housing aide.

Now that Sanders, a U.S. Senator from Vermont, is running for president, the eight years he spent as Burlington's chief executive (1981-89) will be under close scrutiny. Although President Obama recently joked at the White House Correspondents' Association dinner that Sanders is a "pot-smoking socialist," he was actually a hardworking, pragmatic, effective mayor who helped transform Vermont's largest city (population: 38,000) into a thriving town.

Read the article and learn a little about character.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

originally posted by: wayforward

Cookie-cutter liberal.

Three words in and you're already incorrect. I could stop right here knowing that everything from here on will most likely be incorrect too. But I'll continue.

He sees the problems, but not the solutions.

Actually so far he's the only one who has actually stated some of his solutions as well as already started working on some.

He has a big heart, but a small brain.

Unlike everyone in the GOP who have Big Balls, Small Brain and No Heart.

Universal healthcare means having a right to other people's money.

No, because everyone else is paying too. It's a collective account where everyone puts in and everyone gets something back out. Person 1 has no more right to Person 2's money than Person 2's has to Person 1's. It works in both directions not just one.

No, you don't have a right to other people's money. In fact, you have a right to spend your own money how you see fit.

No, you can't. You're limited in what you can purchase legally. Can you buy slaves??? Endangered Species for dinner??? Can you buy the Moon???

You have a right to donate to any cause you see fit.

Again, not so. There are limitations. You can't donate to a cause that is for killing children. You can't donate to terrorists. Just like the examples above. You don't have a right to use your money in illegal ways and for good reason.

You have a right to withhold your money from causes you don't support, including the US Federal Government.

Again, also limited. If you don't think so, try it. Money and it's use isn't so much a Right as it is a Privilege if you think about it.

The difference is that you're looking at the world in terms of principles and ideals instead of what is. What "is" and what "should or should not be" aren't always the same thing.

I prefer to help in ways that actually help, which means not through taxes, and not through government hand-outs.

Ok. Again, that is how you "prefer" things but that is hardly how things actually are, were or ever will be.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: FyreByrd

Well now might be a good opportunity to give Bernie some advice.

What Social Democratic/Marx type programs would you suggest he pursue?

And of course, *how to* is the big question.

Picture yourself as President Sanders' top advisor.

Senator Sanders platform is more substantive then I could ever devise.

Here's another plank that Bernie is moving forward on (his actual platform and plans - the hows that you ask for are not hard to find - they actually exist.) I didn't know about this one:

The bill, the Employ Young Americans Now Act, would provide $5.5 billion in financing to hire a million young people in both summer jobs an year-round work while at the same time offer job training and skills to hundreds of thousands of people in the same age bracket.


$4 billion of the funds would be provided to states and local governments to directly hire people, while the remaining $1.5 billion would be given out as competitive grants to local areas that demonstrate they have the ability to do effective job training.

www.alternet.org...

You can believe everything he says he will do all you want.

If you actually believe it will happen, then I have a real nice bridge in Brooklyn for sale, just PayPal me the money as a gift, and I promise, it's yours! LOL

IF (and that's a HUGE Mt Everest sized if) he got elected, no majority in congress will give him the things he wants.

We've already had our Hope and Change disaster, we do not need another idealist with pie in the sky ideas.

Real change will only come from a Term Limit law. Until we get the lifers out of Congress, who the President is makes very little difference.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Movingobject

I am not referring to Scandinavia since they are not socialist but more social democratic

Sanders describes himself as a Democratic Socialist - and he is referring to Scandinavia as his example.
I'm glad you know the difference.

My other post to you was responding to you saying one was going to give more power to 'big corporations' - and the other wants 'big government.' Since it's well established and proven that big corporations don't give a flying rip about the people - not even their own employees, well, I'm interested in looking at the other way.

The US of A will never be like Scandinavia. That is like saying that if you vote for Rand Paul or any Republican or Libertarian candidate, The USA would become like Switzerland or Liechtenstein where everybody is rich and wealthy.

I can tell you that if Bernie Sanders would ever become President, which I'd say is extremely unlikely, he will cause capital flight and an economic crisis, like what happened in so many socialist countries, including Venezuela right now.