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Liquid on Mars, NASA Photos, up close SOL 0712

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posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 04:54 PM
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a reply to: tigertatzen

First of all, I apologise (my post was a bit aggressive) and not really aimed at you, but more at the anti-NASA folks. Your post was the last I had got to at the time!

The idea that NASA (or any other science team) would deliberately withhold information is blatantly wrong - as history has already shown. The fact that they (like every other research institute) hold onto the "juicy bits" is totally justifiable given the amount of energy and resources to accomplish these missions.







posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 04:58 PM
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originally posted by: funbox
a reply to: MarsIsRed

did you think I was talking about finding out the core's temperature ? no a simple probe on an existing robotic arm may have sufficed, the potential of understanding what happens under the crust with temperatures may have been useful to understanding local conditions within the creator , ah well , the next badass robots under construction ,, hopefully with a few more bells and whistles

funbox



I understood your question. But on Earth a lot of interesting biology happens deep underground, which is practically independent of the atmosphere. So, although the crust must surely act as an insulator, it's very marginal in the extreme. Only by drilling deep could we discover (in my opinion) any signs of life, past or present.


edit on 9-6-2015 by MarsIsRed because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 05:07 PM
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it's very marginal in the extreme.
a reply to: MarsIsRed

indeed , and which probe indicates this ?


Only by drilling deep could we discover (in my opinion) any signs of life, past or present.


well , maybe if we had a probe we could see if there's any potential for current life , say from a foot to a few inch's down, don't need a rig, crew , permanent base, entertainment facility, water parks , orbital docking station, and hydro food production on mars to find out that


funbox



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: wildespace





If Curiosity came across a damp patch of soil and failed to register it with its instruments, it would be a major failure for a mission of such importance and complexity.


We are looking at pictures, the tests cannot be done on every part of every section we are looking at while the rover is still there, only so much can be done.

They found water, in the soil ice under the soil, condensation on the legs...lalalala and dee dah!



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 06:17 PM
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originally posted by: funbox



it's very marginal in the extreme.
a reply to: MarsIsRed

indeed , and which probe indicates this ?


Only by drilling deep could we discover (in my opinion) any signs of life, past or present.


well , maybe if we had a probe we could see if there's any potential for current life , say from a foot to a few inch's down, don't need a rig, crew , permanent base, entertainment facility, water parks , orbital docking station, and hydro food production on mars to find out that


funbox







Phoenix is the best 'test' so far. Although it's results are problematic, it's the best data we have so far!



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 06:33 PM
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is that thing still sending data back ? ide imagine its turned into a amorphous blob by now , last time I looked the legs were a little overrun


why are they problematic ?

funbox



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 01:42 AM
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I tend to keep up with news and findings from Curiosity, usually direct from science sites and forums/groups etc. I find it interesting that I had not heard of these particular findings (that there are favorable conditions for forming wet soil) until I saw this thread. A Google search brings up mostly MSM articles, with rather sensational headlines like "Evidence of liquid water found on Mars". There was no big, loud anouncement from NASA or any of the science sites, or at least none that I have noticed. There surely would have been, if they had indeed found a liquid of some kind or even just a patch of wet soil. All I see at the actual science sources is that conditions are favourable for formation of such liquid, but no mention of any possible detection of it.

Never have I seen that dark material underneath the reddish coating described as wet or damp ground by the scientists or anyone at serious sciency forums like Unmanned Spaceflight. I've only seen this proposition from conspiracy/alternative/anti-mainstream places like ATS.

As I mentioned, this darker material seems to be almost everywhere, found on many of Curiosity's photos taken at any time of the day. If it were indeed wet soil, Mars would have been a very wet planet!

Here's the actual science paper that got all those MSM posting as if liquid water had been found on Mars: www.nature.com...

The most tanglible part in the article's "abstract" is this:

We also find that changes in the hydration state of salts within the uppermost 15 cm of the subsurface, as measured by Curiosity, are consistent with an active exchange of water at the atmosphere–soil interface.

The rest of it are suppositions and possibilities.
edit on 10-6-2015 by wildespace because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 01:16 PM
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The image that Char-Lee linked to in a previous post
files.abovetopsecret.com...
really blows the lid off any water presence or blowing sand erosion models. Looked at in a different perspective, it can be reasoned that it is electricity that is responsible for it all, using accepted science.
What is happening in the electrical explanation is this: There was no water flowing down to, and cutting through the edge of that shelf, and then flowing down to the bottom of the image. What has happened here is that an ion wind has flown both downwards and upward to that sharp edge and cut that well defined slot.
Electrical activity is always higher at points or sharp edges, and when there is sufficient electrical activity you get electrostatic fragmentation, which leads to rounding of the grains and reduction of grain size. Electrodynamic fragmentation, such as lightning, where fast rise-time pulses are present, produces larger, angular shaped chunks.
At the bottom of the image, what appears to be a little rivulet of water, is from the effects of a small dust devil that has picked up the fine grains, meandered up-slope, skipping some sections, as do crater chains.
The fine dust under the ledge is not from it being blown up there by the very feeble Martian wind, it has been electrically eroded from the edge of the ledge and drifted down-slope. When larger pieces are ejected from the ledge, they will fall further down the slope.
Is that good enough now to kill the thread?
P.S. Did you create the image Char-Lee? If so. I'd like to give you credit if I can get the Daily Mail to do an article "Electric Mars!". 8)



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: funbox
a reply to: MarsIsRed

no probes to test the soil temps eh, and mission objectives are to see if conditions where favourable to life, ive not been this disappointed since I found out there's no mic on board,

see, this is the problem when you let scientists with too finer mental parameters to design a mission , a more expansive, imaginative approach is needed

funbox


But they do measure both air and ground temperature if not the internal soil temp.
This graph shows the rise and fall of air and ground temperatures on Mars obtained by NASA's Curiosity rover.
mars.nasa.gov...



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: wildespace

Way back 2017 they already gave the answer, they already said there was ice both in a crater on the surface and under the surface and then they said


Curiosity's onboard weather station, which is called the Remote Environment Monitoring Station (REMS), has measured air temperatures as high as 43 degrees Fahrenheit (6 degrees Celsius) in the afternoon.

www.space.com...




The temperature on Mars may reach a high of about 70 degrees Fahrenheitt (20 degrees Celsius) at noon, at the equator in the summer

quest.nasa.gov...



Ocean water freezes just like freshwater, but at lower temperatures. Fresh water freezes at 32 degrees Fahrenheit but seawater freezes at about 28.4 degrees Fahrenheit , because of the salt in it.

edit on 10-6-2015 by Char-Lee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: GaryN




P.S. Did you create the image Char-Lee? If so. I'd like to give you credit if I can get the Daily Mail to do an article "Electric Mars!". 8)


Follow my original link to the thread it came from it came from there.



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: GaryN


The fine dust under the ledge is not from it being blown up there by the very feeble Martian wind,





But air that thin doesn't do a good job of carrying heat away, even when the winds are blowing at 100 kilometers per hour (as they sometimes do in the Red Planet’s global dust storms).

Similarly, Mars’s global average temperature of –16°C, in wind-free conditions, is only 1°C colder than the average winter wind chill temperature of Minneapolis, Minnesota (which during that season combines an average temperature of –8.1°C with an average wind speed of 16.5 km/hr).
news.sciencemag.org...



The maximum wind speeds recorded by the Viking Landers in the 1970's were about 30 meters per second (60 miles an hour) with an average of 10 m/s (20 mph).

quest.nasa.gov...



On Mars the surface winds accelerate to higher speeds than those on Earth. The general circulation pattern of winds is also very different from the terrestrial circulation pattern. These winds can be whipped to an extreme during the frequent Martian global dust storms.

www.windows2universe.org...



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 02:03 PM
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originally posted by: GaryN
The image that Char-Lee linked to in a previous post
files.abovetopsecret.com...
really blows the lid off any water presence or blowing sand erosion models. Looked at in a different perspective, it can be reasoned that it is electricity that is responsible for it all, using accepted science.
What is happening in the electrical explanation is this: There was no water flowing down to, and cutting through the edge of that shelf, and then flowing down to the bottom of the image. What has happened here is that an ion wind has flown both downwards and upward to that sharp edge and cut that well defined slot.
Electrical activity is always higher at points or sharp edges, and when there is sufficient electrical activity you get electrostatic fragmentation, which leads to rounding of the grains and reduction of grain size. Electrodynamic fragmentation, such as lightning, where fast rise-time pulses are present, produces larger, angular shaped chunks.
At the bottom of the image, what appears to be a little rivulet of water, is from the effects of a small dust devil that has picked up the fine grains, meandered up-slope, skipping some sections, as do crater chains.
The fine dust under the ledge is not from it being blown up there by the very feeble Martian wind, it has been electrically eroded from the edge of the ledge and drifted down-slope. When larger pieces are ejected from the ledge, they will fall further down the slope.
Is that good enough now to kill the thread?
P.S. Did you create the image Char-Lee? If so. I'd like to give you credit if I can get the Daily Mail to do an article "Electric Mars!". 8)


That makes total sense for the image you linked to, but I don't see the images from SOL 0712 being that as well. The 0712 dark "leaks" look entirely different than this one



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 02:08 PM
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Or possibly Mars is like Earth and has most of it's water source underground

www.newscientist.com...

Since the two planets seem to be in different stages of existence, maybe some of the underground water on Mars remains, but very little makes it to the top.

Or even that the water is near the surface as ice, but when some of it gets pushed close enough, the rocks above it absorb heat over a long period of time, slowly and eventually melting it, making it fluid enough to leak out.

Just some thoughts...



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 02:08 PM
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a reply to: Char-Lee

it seems odd to me , consider the location of the phoenix lander in relation to curiosity , surely the scientist's would have been curios to know the contrast in soil temps at these contrasting environments they landed in


I see it as, the contrast between Scandinavia and the South of France,

but the absence of these probes on the curiosity , I think is a missed opportunity to make that comparison.

still see they've not fixed the wind speed or humidity..


funbox



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 02:25 PM
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originally posted by: funbox
a reply to: Char-Lee

it seems odd to me , consider the location of the phoenix lander in relation to curiosity , surely the scientist's would have been curious to know the contrast in soil temps at these contrasting environments they landed in


I see it as, the contrast between Scandinavia and the South of France,

but the absence of these probes on the curiosity , I think is a missed opportunity to make that comparison.

still see they've not fixed the wind speed or humidity..


funbox


yes oddities...
missing cheep probes...
I love the constant use of the word baffled...



Enormous cloud-like plumes reaching 160 miles above the surface of Mars have left scientists baffled. This is way beyond Mars’ normal weather, reaching into the exosphere where the atmosphere merges with interplanetary space. None of the conventional explanations for such clouds make sense –

blogs.discovermagazine.com...



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 02:31 PM
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originally posted by: Char-Lee

originally posted by: funbox
a reply to: Char-Lee

it seems odd to me , consider the location of the phoenix lander in relation to curiosity , surely the scientist's would have been curious to know the contrast in soil temps at these contrasting environments they landed in


I see it as, the contrast between Scandinavia and the South of France,

but the absence of these probes on the curiosity , I think is a missed opportunity to make that comparison.

still see they've not fixed the wind speed or humidity..


funbox


yes oddities...
missing cheep probes...
I love the constant use of the word baffled...



Enormous cloud-like plumes reaching 160 miles above the surface of Mars have left scientists baffled. This is way beyond Mars’ normal weather, reaching into the exosphere where the atmosphere merges with interplanetary space. None of the conventional explanations for such clouds make sense –

blogs.discovermagazine.com...



baffling...



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: MarsIsRed

Oh, no worries at all...I think we're all just very passionate and sometimes that translates to aggression via the typed word. I am no different, so my apologies as well if I came across as being growly!



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 04:29 PM
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a reply to: Char-Lee

interesting plumes in that article ? must have missed that one, the article goes on to say they hung around for ten days , quite a long time for material cast up by a meteorite to hang about for , given that wonderful suspending power of the atmosphere


funbox



posted on Jun, 10 2015 @ 04:39 PM
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originally posted by: funbox
a reply to: Char-Lee

interesting plumes in that article ? must have missed that one, the article goes on to say they hung around for ten days , quite a long time for material cast up by a meteorite to hang about for , given that wonderful suspending power of the atmosphere


funbox



I thought it was discussed on Mars oddities thread 2015...maybe I am remembering wrong?




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