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The Quran wasn't a book, it was speech.

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posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:13 PM
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Tell me if this makes sense:


An illiterate Arab (who was known to be illiterate by his friends and family for over 40 years) suddenly starts reciting verses of such amazing magnitude and Arabic poetic mastery that he, in a matter of 23 years, transforms a backwards, selfish and the warring populace of Arabia into one of the greatest human civilizations that ever existed.


He had a co-author?: The Quran wasn't a book. It was SPEECH. It was revealed in response to various circumstances. Muhammad would go limp and still and start reciting the words. There was no editing process, no filter, no preparation. The words where memorized verbatim by Muhammad's followers and if there was a system of peer-review to make sure the original was not corrupted.

This speech laid the foundation for Arabic grammar for the next 1400 years.
The Koran was only formally written down and distributed much later.

He had epilepsy?: False. Muhammad showed no medical symptoms of any mental illnesses. He was considered the best of his people and called "Al-Amin" (The truthful) by his community which had known him 40 years prior to his prophet-hood.

Why did so many people fight him?: It was not because they were not convinced. One of the greatest enemies of Islam at the time, Utbah, actually affirmed to Muhammad's face that what he was reciting HAD to be the word of God. But he had a clan and his pride to uphold to. (Utbah was one of the greatest poet of the time so he knew what he was hearing)
What Muhammad was saying was considered crazy. Treating your women right? Giving to the poor? Pride is a sin? The arabs didn't really like that.


To summarize, I believe, as a Muslim that the Quran is the verbatim word of God because:

I am not convinced that an illiterate man can suddenly become Shakespeare. Even then, Shakespeare did not write his plays in one sitting. Even Romeo and Juliet went through the editing process, spelling/grammar mistakes, tweaks here and there.
The Quran was narration, speech. Yet it's grammatical accuracy and attention to detail is astounding. As a reasonable person, I cannot believe that is a coincidence.

PS: (A short example) In the 2nd chapter of the Quran (the longest), there is a verse "We made you a middle nation...." (not extremists). The chapter has 286 verse.
Guess which verse number the above is? That's right 143. THE MIDDLE.

How do you do this in speech, without having the time to edit or keep track of where you are in the narration? You can't.

Edit: Another linguistic example explained in this video (and you can find many more if you visit the YT channel of this video)


Peace
edit on 4-6-2015 by ElectricFeel because: video added

edit on 4-6-2015 by ElectricFeel because: .

edit on 4-6-2015 by ElectricFeel because: Problems with adding youtube video




posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: ElectricFeel

The Poetry of the Arabic recitation is what makes Quranic scripture so easy (I use the term loosely) to continue reciting all these years later.


Case in point, I struggle with other languages, especially Arabic as it is a complex dialect...


But I recently found a way to learn the 1st Surah, Al-Fatiha, by heart...

Not much I know, but I recite it daily, and it helps me a lot.



edit on 4-6-2015 by CharlieSpeirs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:24 PM
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Did you hear this spoken Quran to do your analysis, or did you read it? Once anything is written down, it can be edited, right? Just like a verbal story can (and usually does) stray from the original in small subtle ways at first. Then, over time those small changes tend to get larger and larger, eventually changing the meaning of the composition.

I am not saying you are incorrect, or that the Quran is not all you say it is. However, you must acknowledge the above is possible, and quite plausible.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: ElectricFeel

The first 40 syllables of Matthew 24 (Greek text) introduce a prophecy about the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple. It was spoken in 30 AD, just days before Jesus' execution. Forty years later (1 syllable per year), the prophecy was fulfilled.

This is but one small example of how the very recitation of the ancient biblical texts predicted how, why, and when each prophecy would be fulfilled. Can the Koran live up to that standard?



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:44 PM
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All of you, stop bickering!

Why can't you, yeah you(all)! In your heart find way to guide whatever information you gather in this universe and integrate it into making things better for your neighbor. Far or near.

You(all) can do that okay?

If you(all) can fulfill that, can't you in your heart say to yourself that there was maybe, just maybe something that is first and if it is first, then it must be the god right?

Well, what if that was the truth and it created life out of love, care, hopefulness, faith/belief and all good feelings there is?

Why can't we owe that all our love, care, hopefulness, faith/belief and all good feelings there is by doing both those things the same time?
edit on 4/6/15 by Sump3 because: spelling



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:50 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Have a look at this structure of the original old and new testament and the way the different books were placed . www.askelm.com...



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:53 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You should read this whenever you have time, Islam does not say that Christianity or Judaism are false religions.



On many occasions I have heard Muslims attack the Bible. Some seem keen to slander it anyway they can. But what does the Qur'an say about it? This article examines what the whole Qur'an says about the Jewish and Christian scriptures. The Qur'an used is according to Imam Hafs and translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali (AYA) or Mohammed Pickthall (MP).

Christianity, Judaism and Islam

The Qur'an teaches that Islam is the continued faithful religion in the same line as the Prophets who were before Muhammad: The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah ... and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (42:13 AYA). The result of this view is that the scriptures given by these Prophets are considered to be genuine scriptures from God: But say, "We (Muslims) believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you (Jews & Christians); our Allah and your Allah is One" (29:46 AYA).

In the Qur'an there are many references to the Jewish and Christian Holy Books. In fact the Qur'an addresses Christians and Jews in terms of the Book: O People of the Book! (5:68 AYA).

God's Mission For The People of the Book

Christians and Jews are mentioned in the Qur'an as the custodians of scripture: For to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's Book (5:47 AYA/44 MP). God gave the scripture to the Christians and Jews so that they could make known to the whole world and every nation the true knowledge of God: And remember Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it (3:187 AYA). Some of the Jews and Christians fulfilled this mission, others did not. Just as there are faithful and unfaithful Muslims so too the Qur'an distinguishes between the faithful and the unfaithful Christians and Jews.

The Unfaithful The Qur'an describes the behaviour of unfaithful Christians and Jews as:

1/ Concealing the truth of the scripture: Who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah?' (2:140 AYA).

2/ Teaching falsely and forgetting what they had heard from their scripture:

There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah (3:78 AYA).

They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished (5:13 MP/14 AYA).



www.answering-islam.org...

--------------------------------------------------
Mod Note: Posting work written by others.– Please Review This Link.
edit on 6-6-2015 by GAOTU789 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:53 PM
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The only bickering I see is this:

originally posted by:
Sump3
All of you, stop bickering!

Why can't you, yeah you(all)! In your heart find way to guide whatever information you gather in this universe integrate into making things better for your neighbor. Far or near.

You(all) can do that okay?

If you(all) can fulfill that, can't you in your heart say to yourself that there was maybe, just maybe something that is first and if it is first, then it must be the god right?

Well, what if that was the truth and it created life out of love, care, hopefulness, faith/belief and all good feelings there is?

Why can't we owe that all our love, care, hopefulness, faith/belief and all good feelings there is by doing both those things the same time?

Is it wrong to attempt to rightly divide the truth, or should I just assume that everything is true?
edit on 4-6-2015 by BELIEVERpriest because: fixed post



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

How did I ever ignite that by quoting the two highest commandments of love, care and hope?

I read your posts and I understand your approach to the truth, but this is the only thing that will save us all. Regardless of religious origins, that I will (and I never do) bet my life on.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:59 PM
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a reply to: ElectricFeel

Perhaps Islam can claim harmony with bible prophecy, but the same is not true for Christianity. An honest understanding of the bible rules out the veracity of the Koran. Not to offend you, but that is what the bible teaches.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 09:03 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Thank you. Very interesting, I did not notice that.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 09:08 PM
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a reply to: ElectricFeel

This is a good online book with text and audio that was a eye opener for me and explained and explains what we see in religion today .Its core roots is mystery Babylon and follows the history up till today .www.askelm.com...



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 09:08 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
I'm so glad this came up! Because I have a question. (sincere questions)

I've heard people say that most people in the ME haven't ever actually read the Quran, and many have never seen a copy of it, because it was intended to be recited. Is this true?

I know copies are in abundance now, because even I have one. In English. I haven't read it (God, it looks like a bear to read, although I have used it for reference at times).

So Charlie, I'm asking you because I know you won't be ugly about it, but since it was originally "recited", don't you think mistakes could have been made, or passages or messages "lost in translation" so to speak, or "lost in recitation"? Wouldn't that be human nature to confuse passages over a period of centuries?

I don't like these threads because they make me tense and I probably won't hang around, but I would like to have your opinion on this.

Thanks!



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 09:11 PM
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It is exactly a speech and that is the problem. The christians bible was carefully doctored, manipulated, and directed,,. The koran was not. You see the differences in the violence of the followers.


I think If Mohammed had the same built in support censures then, the Koran would have ended up differently.... and current political madness as well.

Edit- This is being analyzed by a guy that finds all religions garbage. So take my opinion for what its worth to you.
edit on 4-6-2015 by Legman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 09:12 PM
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Clearly Muhammad was not even convinced that what he was reciting was the word of God, otherwise he would have not tried to kill himself.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 09:18 PM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting

If I tried to recite it myself it would be littered with illiteracy & mistakes...

For someone born into the Arabic language & generations of recitation it would be nigh on impossible to corrupt...

The Quran, in Arabic, pretty much rhymes from beginning to end.
That is what the OP & myself were alluding to with likening the Quran to Poetry.


However...
The message itself can be and has been corrupted by individuals the world over for their own anti-spiritual or political gains.

I probably read the same version of the Quran as some ISIS members...
But I'll never comprehend their antithetical approach to Islam.





posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 09:19 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

If I tried to recite it myself it would be littered with illiteracy & mistakes...

For someone born into the Arabic language & generations of recitation it would be nigh on impossible to corrupt...

The Quran, in Arabic, pretty much rhymes from beginning to end.
That is what the OP & myself were alluding to with likening the Quran to Poetry.


However...
The message itself can be and has been corrupted by individuals the world over for their own anti-spiritual or political gains.

I probably read the same version of the Quran as some ISIS members...
But I'll never comprehend their antithetical approach to Islam.




You are selling yourself short. I still speak and write arabic. Its easier than spanish. Im sure you are a rockstar at it.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 09:22 PM
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a reply to: Legman

No I'm pretty poor, Legman...

I've always struggled with other languages.




The only reason I learned the 1st Surah is because it is relatively short and as a lyricist I was able to incorporate the rhyme with English words to create a song verse and eventually learn the Arabic parts by memory.



But to learn a new language, alphabet and numeracy aspects I'm pretty much brain dead.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 09:26 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Me too man... Im the biggest dummy you have ever seen. But the arabic language is achievable for us non language types.

Keep at it.

I promise. It seems you have the passion. I suggest just adding in more study time each night. ITs so close to english in a lot of ways.



edit: this being said... I suggest learning egyptian over MSA. MSA is great for the religion but not so great for all the different dialects. I struggle between Moroccan and Syrian.
edit on 4-6-2015 by Legman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 09:28 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Thanks for that. I do have trouble wrapping my head around how something so huge with multitudes of verses could realistically hold up to being recited century after century without errors or some type contamination of messages.

It would be like trying to memorize the entire works of Shakespeare, or even the entire Bible. It would be something that for me, would be impossible. I could tell "Bible stories", or explain the gist of most any book in the Bible, but memorize the whole thing? Not this cookie. : )

Just wanted to know your thoughts............. thanks.

ETA:

For someone born into the Arabic language & generations of recitation it would be nigh on impossible to corrupt...


Still trying to make this "fit" into something I can digest a little easier. I suppose if starting at early childhood, and it was my "job" my life's work - to memorize it, maybe I could.
Oh, reminds me of that Denzil Washington movie "The Book of Eli". Neither here nor there, just sayin'. Good futuristic movie. : )


edit on 6/4/2015 by ladyinwaiting because: (no reason given)



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