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What is the place in our society that Cathlyn Jenner or Bruce Jenner deserve to have?

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posted on Jun, 11 2015 @ 02:20 PM
a reply to: The angel of light

1) Does Bruce Jenner must retain his Athlete Gold medal of the Montreal 1976 Olympic games, that He gained as a man? in spite of his current self identification or future gender? ( In spite of what the Olympic International Committee has decided)

Doesn't invalidate what he did, especially back in 1976

2) Did Catlyn Jenner deserve to be portrayed in the Cover of Vanity fair Magazine in the way she ( or He) is right now? a Magazine that has a tradition of to be read by millions of women around the world?

"Deserve" is a strong word. That's a question for the magazine editor, not us.

3) Does Caitlyn Jenner deserve to receive ESPN's Arthur Ashe Courage Award? I mean is his or her decision to assume a change of Gender at this point of her or his life a genuine act of courage or not?

Again with the word "deserve". A question for the award committee, again, not us.

4) Do you think the current campaign in favor of Jenner's right to change of gender in the Media is creating a Smog curtain around the fatal wreck in which he was involved in February of 2015 and being sued since May of 2015? ( There is any difference to be judged as a man or as woman in court ? ).

Apples and oranges. The two are not related to each other. And the court doesn't care, unless prison is involved, then I suppose it's going to be a question.

5) what impact has for the childhood of today these kind of cases of public figures that decide to do with their lives what they want invoking civil rights to do so? Is there any ethical constraints thinking in the influence that example can have in young minds to publish these decisions? There is a limit to the individual civil right or there is boundary that reach with the civil rights of the society as a whole? ( I am asking of the children of today since it is clear that being a Child when this Athlete won the Gold medal it has been shocking for me to see what is going on now)

Shocking? People choose to be freaky all the time. In THAT family, it's likely to be expected, isn't it? Ethical constraints? Is it ethical for us to decide what makes Bruce happy? Now, I don't have to sit here and pretend it's normal, and I'll call it freaky as I see fit...but hey, his life, not mine. Let your freak flag fly if you want to.

6) Is the Transgender experience genuinely part of the Sexual diversity of a free and democratic society or it is perhaps a problem self image and therefore possibly of mental health? ( please support your answer if you dare to answer this question) if it is not a physical problem is it ethical from the medical point of view to practice a transition hormonal treatment and surgery to try to " change" artificially what the nature has done wrongly? What happen if a person has double or multiple personality disorder and at not all those personalities identify themselves with the same gender?

Personally, I feel it is definitely a form of mental illness, but if this solution "cures" him of not feeling good about himself, then so be it. I do find it hard to believe though, that a motivational speaker suddenly does a 180 from how he appeared as inspirational to others in the audience. Again though, his life, to live as he pleases. I'm sure many feel it is just a form of sexuality. That's cool, we can agree to disagree.

7) Is the so called Trans gender Transition preparation period, surgery and re-inclusion in the society really a Transition process or it is in fact a civil death following by a legal rebirth of a person that needs to start his life again as everything in his or her past was basically part of a great mistake? ( are the Laws prepared to deal with the corresponding change of name and hence of identity? for example a possible crime committed in a previous gender and so identity is still a crime after the change of gender and identity?)

Probably a bit deeper than it needs to be. The person is still the same person, legally as far as the law is concerned. Though it would be one hell of a creative and dedicated defense means, lol.

posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 07:54 AM
a reply to: Gazrok

Dear Gazrok,

First at all let me thanks for your patience and commitment in to answer the proposed questionnaire, however, let me refer in this particular opportunity to your answer to the question No. 6 and No.7.

Let us agree that this is a kind of mental illness, a person that is transiting for a psychological crisis, can be related with his period of andropause, or can be also connected with problems of self esteem and selfimage that possibly were never fixed in the adolescence.

The point is this person also , due to his fame, has access to media, he has filmed his own TV series, etc. He is in position to influence the judgment of many youngsters, many teenagers or so that expend hours of their free time either in internet or watching TV.

That is what I am worried about, the bad example that this individual represent, a person that is suffering certainly of an emotional unbalance but can radiate that problem to many more using the power of media.

My second observation is that I am doubtful that all what Jenner is doing is going really to fix his problem, after all we don't know for how long this motivation will move in his head. We also don't know if this person is suffering of a double personality issue, and if that is the case he would be in permanent unsolved conflict for the rest of his or her life.

There is an expert on these kind of cases that also warns openly that Jenner has all the Characteristics of other patients that after transformation will end in a complete collapse of personality.

Check please the following link:


The Angel of Lightness

posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 08:24 AM
So I'm curious. If someone does something as drastic as to surgically change their gender (add or delete parts)...

1. Should they declare their old self dead? Like have a funeral? In regards to the Olympic standing, shouldn't the committee pronounce Bruce as deceased on 00/00/2105?

2. Should they have to obtain a new birth certificate with the date of the transformation?

3. Should they have to obtain a new social security number? Change all legal and financial documents?

I personally think he's mentally ill due to who knows what. Drugs, steroids, bad relationships, child abuse but I'm old fashion and truly think this transgender stuff is bull.

posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 09:04 AM
I've come a long way with the OP, and know many good people commented.

However, I've also been with trangender people and I cannot say they are mentally ill in any way.

What about the hijras and Two-Spirit People?
Transgender people have been around in many cultures.

Just because we don't understand something or go through it, we must knock and stigmatize it?

Real classy my brothers.

The love and compassion you give, is one day what you will take.

posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 08:25 PM
It is finished - goodbye.

posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 08:29 PM
I had a difficult evening, but it was all good.
All good until I met ATS.
Friends have turned to enemies ...
I guess we're finished.
Well, it's over.

posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 08:38 PM
a reply to: halfoldman
It was never my intention.

posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 09:26 PM

All respect to to the spirituality.

edit on 12-6-2015 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 09:40 PM
a reply to: halfoldman
My brothers, I hear you,
I'll hear you on the wind.

Better I just log out and forget about it.

edit on 12-6-2015 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 12 2015 @ 11:13 PM
a reply to: halfoldman
Uff just coming round, it's been a hard night,
My apologies.

There were black, white, transgender and gay people dancing to Greek and Portuguese music tonight.
It was fantastic in that sense.

However there was almost a fist-fight.
Boys will be boys.

edit on 12-6-2015 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 14 2015 @ 08:48 PM
a reply to: maybee
Dear maybee,

I also have exactly the same questions you have formulated. For me it is clear that a person that decides to change gender is not just doing that, it is in fact requesting a legal change of identity.

That is perhaps one of the reasons I found the entire process pretty pathologic, it is like huge psychological crisis in which the individual is looking for the way to escape from himself, from all what has been the life before, and that so drastic need of escape I don't think can be motivated for nothing good.

We are essentially facing a way in which people is convincing the society that there must be a way to legally assume a complete self denial and start life again from nothing, like when you erase a blackboard and start again the whole explanation of your life.

May you image with this represents for change of university certificates, university degrees, professional licenses , drive license, passport etc ,etc. ?

Can you also figure what this may represent for the government and for other institutions in a lot of extra work that essentially is useless, since it is adding nothing really productive to the society?

Now , how about the entire family? what is going on with birth certificate of sons or daughters of that person? what is going to happen with their school records?

Thanks for your reply,

The Angel of Lightness

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