Tony Blair new role includes making HOLOCAUST denial a criminal offense.

a reply to: kayej1188

billion was a typo that slipped by me, and I put Death Camp in quotations becasue of the variety of terms, Internment Camp, Detainment Camp, Concentration Camp, Death Camp. Whether or not the were documented to exist doesn't change that fact that these official documents may be false, I can almost guarantee that anything the Soviet Union had to report was wildly edited. many people here on ATS wouldn't trust anything the Federal Goverment would have to say but blindy agree with the official history given to them.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Thanks for your post.

I wanted opinions on why and you have given me an opinion. I agree with some of it however I do not agree it should be a criminal offense because from what I have read about it in text books and history books it vastly differs from what you can find elsewhere by credible people some of whom are actually Jewish themselves.

Many people are threatened for their backgrounds, so we might as well make it an offense to not acknowledge the slave trade in the USA 200 or so years ago or not acknowledge what the British Empire did to conquer so much of the world or like you said...ISIS today..which some people actually claim is not happening but made up by media and governments to keep funding wars.

Anyway thanks

a reply to: projectbane

Because the holocaust was real and has been verified as real by not only jews who were liberated from them, but by Nazis captured at the end of the war.

a reply to: WilhelmTell

what about the Nazis' own records?


Opening: 16 Miles of Nazi Files

50 Million Pages of Nazi Records in ITS Bad Arolsen Archive Made Public

After 60 years of being hidden away from the public, Nazi records about the 17.5 million people - Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, mental patients, handicapped, political prisoners and other undesirables – they persecuted during the regime's 12 years in power will be open to the public.


The ITS Holocaust Archive in Bad Arolsen, Germany contains the fullest records of Nazi persecutions in existence. The archives contain 50 million pages, housed in thousands of filing cabinets in 6 buildings. Overall, there are 16 miles of shelves holding information about the victims of the Nazis.

The documents - scraps of paper, transport lists, registration books, labor documents, medical records, and finally death registers – record the arrest, transportation and extermination of the victims. In some case, even the amount and size of the lice found on the prisoners’ heads were recorded.

This archive contains the famous Schindler’s List, with the names of 1,000 prisoners saved by factory owner Oskar Schindler who told the Nazis he needed the prisoners to work in his factory.

Records of Anne Frank’s journey from Amsterdam to Bergen-Belsen, where she died at the age of 15, can also be found among the millions of documents in this archive.

The Mauthausen concentration camp’s “Totenbuch”, or Death Book, records in meticulous handwriting how on April 20, 1942, a prisoner was shot in the back of the head every two minutes for 90 hours. The Mauthausen camp commandant ordered these executions as a birthday present for Hitler.

Toward the end of the war, when the Germans were struggling, the record keeping was not able to keep up with the extermination. And unknown numbers of prisoners were marched directly from trains to gas chambers in places like Auschwitz without being registered.

click link to read more and see additional links..

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: projectbane

The way you capitalized Jews makes it read like you're some sort of Neo Sympathizer whether or not you realize it.

The HOLOCAUST happened. My grandfathers second wife was there and lost her family because of it. She only made it out because she was Blonde/Blue and young enough to be re-educated. She's German born from a Jewish family. She's also passed from this world, recently may God rest her soul. One of the sweetest, kindest and most silent women you could ever hope to meet.

Just sayin'....because blind raggard hate starts with little things....LIKE WORDS.

If you're so THREATENED by the protections given to others while you sit back and quiver in your chair spouting all manner of callous accusations, why don't you do us all a favor, grow a freakin' spine and attach it to a freakin' BRAIN.

Jerk.

hahaha always someone who has to come on certain type threads with some poor story to garner more support for their cause. Boo hoo. And to end your post with Jerk without fully understanding what I wrote shows me that the story you gave us about your grandfathers sister or whoever should be taken with a pinch of salt and then you finish include God rest her soul as if to garner more sympathy. I don't see what god has to do with any of this especially with a topic such as the holocaust. god was not present.

Thanks for you "story"

a reply to: Xcathdra

Well I will dig around and read what I can from the German perspective, meticulous record keepers as they were, other wise many of the Germans prosecuted at Nuremberg were tortured or black mailed.

groups.google.com...#!topic/alt.history.what-if/dDEP_nNXII0

a reply to: projectbane

The flaw in your logic is the slave trade was acknowledged. Even during the Us civil war, which was not fought over slavery, had the topic at the forefront via states rights.

in this case, the holocaust, we have idiots who try and claim it never occurred when in fact it did and we have the records and eye witness accounts, from those in the camps as well as from those running the camps, that is occurred.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: projectbane

The flaw in your logic is the slave trade was acknowledged. Even during the Us civil war, which was not fought over slavery, had the topic at the forefront via states rights.

in this case, the holocaust, we have idiots who try and claim it never occurred when in fact it did and we have the records and eye witness accounts, from those in the camps as well as from those running the camps, that is occurred.

Point taken as I didnt explain properly. My point has been I do NOT deny the holocaust my problem is where does this stop when it comes to our liberties. Criminal offense to deny the holocaust...what next criminal offense to say that 9/11 was an inside job (like half of ATS think)...etc

But yes i didnt make it clear!

a reply to: WilhelmTell

I am curious as to how many Nazis made the same claims about being tortured or threatened in order to sign something. I am also curious as to why their lawyers didn't challenge these accusations during the trials.

a reply to: projectbane

There is a difference in people arguing that the bulk of people who dies in the camps died from disease and that the furnaces were used to prevent those diseases from spreading to others. Those arguments have been around as long as I can remember.

the issue revolves around those who claim the holocaust never happened - period. That there were no death camps, that jews / other suspect classes were not targeted for persecution and death.

What I find interesting are people who have an issue with this when its Europe who does it but when Russia passed the same laws no one said jack about it.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: projectbane



What I find interesting are people who have an issue with this when its Europe who does it but when Russia passed the same laws no one said jack about it.

Maybe because Russia is not the country that tries to give human rights, democracy and freedom of speech lessons all over the world. Like in France, you know : on one hand they brag about freedom of speech when it comes to spit on Islam and on the other hand they put you in jail for that same freedom of speech when TPTB disagree, like for the holocaust.

a reply to: gosseyn

Your response doesn't answer my question. Russia wont give those speeches because Russia doesn't share those ideals. Their law whitewashes their involvement and alliance with the Nazis.

The laws are the same - its illegal to deny the holocaust. its an issue when Europe wants the law but not a big deal when Russia passes the law.

Considering the history of WWII and the European participation I would think Europe has more of a right to ensure its never denied.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Well exactly, Russia doesn't share those ideals, so from my point of view we have no reason to scorn them when they pass a law like that. But when a country like France passes a law like that, they go against their apparent ideals of freedom of speech.

a reply to: gosseyn

Considering France openly collaborated with the Nazi government I think they have a right to ensure the holocaust conversation is kept in context.

I think it says a lot for nations involved in the Nazi atrocities to try and prevent the topic from being buried under a false position. It certainly says a lot when Russia, who was directly involved with the Nazis from the start. [asses a law that hides its participation.

The holocaust is fact.

a reply to: Xcathdra

The French gov has on many occasions admitted the fact that hey sent people on trains to Germany, and for example again recently Hollande gave a speech about the Vel d'Hiv Roundup. They have nothing to hide, they have admitted everything. Believe me it has become kind of a sport in France to talk about the French involvement in the genocide.

But those "memory laws" as they are called in France specifically target the genocide in itself, what has taken place in those camps, to the smallest details.

a reply to: gosseyn

and when you have governments involved in the holocaust, and admit it, its not out of line to support a law that makes it illegal to claim the holocaust never occurred.

Totally sick.

He's allowed to claim he isn't a war criminal but I can't suggest the holocaust didn't happen?

Why? I can suggest that 9/11 was committed by the Americans... Surely that's worse?

The holocaust didn't happen.
The holocaust didn't happen.
The holocaust didn't happen.
The holocaust didn't happen.
The holocaust didn't happen.
The holocaust didn't happen.
The holocaust didn't happen.
The holocaust didn't happen.
The holocaust didn't happen.
The holocaust didn't happen.
The holocaust didn't happen.
The holocaust didn't happen.

See - it makes no difference what I think... You still have your own mind and views!

a reply to: Xcathdra

It could also mean the contrary, that there are still things hidden that are better left buried for the benefit of some people.

Anyway, I am 120% for freedom of speech, even more when it comes to historical events, and even even more when it comes to genocides. Those laws are ridiculously childish. Almost one century now, let the historians do their job.

Tony Blair should be on trial himself for the holocaust he has caused in Iraq Afghanistan, Syria we'll Infact the whole Middle East or does he deny there's an on going holocaust???

a reply to: projectbane

You're the one starting this whole mess whining about things that don't concern you and pointing fingers at TEH JEWS.

MAN UP.

Protect your own interests without pointing fingers and complaining like a teenage sobstory.

I'm out because this riffraff of yours deserves it's own cesspool and I have better things to do.

Have fun swimming the the filth.

*over and out*