It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Ukraine's General Staff Admits Using Artillery Banned by Minsk Agreements

page: 4
6
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 02:36 AM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra

Alaska was purchased from Russia and voted for state hood in the 1950's.


Crimea was voted to Russian statehood in 2014 ...


originally posted by: Xcathdra

The story about the Donald Cook was proven to be false.



By western medias ...


originally posted by: Xcathdra

Russia has been afforded every opportunity to present its evidence to the United Nations to support the claims it has made and has thus far failed to do so.


Only people having issue acknowledging facts are expecting further proofs ...


originally posted by: Xcathdra
How about Chechnya? Dagestan? The illegal annexation and occupation of Koinesberg?


It's fuelled by the same imperialism, that pushed the US to wreak havoc in Irak, Afghanistan, Vietnam, ...




posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 03:53 AM
link   

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke

Crimea was voted to Russian statehood in 2014 ...

I must have missed where it was legally purchased? Did the US simply move troops in and steal Alaska? How are they at all similar?



It's fuelled by the same imperialism, that pushed the US to wreak havoc in Irak, Afghanistan, Vietnam, ...

So you are saying Russia is simply imperialistic and that is why it's being hypocritical? I agree, it is.



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 04:10 AM
link   

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I must have missed where it was legally purchased? Did the US simply move troops in and steal Alaska? How are they at all similar?


Very good observation, on the pro-western side, no one seems to suggest that George Soros doesn't pay his bills in due time.


originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
So you are saying Russia is simply imperialistic and that is why it's being hypocritical? I agree, it is.


Therefore, it is somehow silly to consider simply a good guy VS a bad guy. That sort "who's who" doesn't interest me. Both sides have their wrong doings.
The Ukrainians must have treated the russian minority in an remarkable way so that things end up with the current situation.

In order to get back to the OP, I would say that it would be a good point for Russia if they don't consider this artillery firing as a Casus Belli for further escalation.



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 04:12 AM
link   
a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

The only ones making this good guy vs bad guy are west haters, who see Russia as always good. I see it as an issue of sovereignty, and for the record the Russian population that was ALLOWED to vote before the rebels took control of those areas voted for Poroshenko.



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 04:17 AM
link   
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Don't worry, the hardcore pro-Russians will have to realise that, from time to time, the Russians too are messing things for their own interest.
Personal suggestion : watch out what will come out of the inquiry about briberies around the next FIFA World cup taking place in Russia (2018).




posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 04:21 AM
link   
a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

It could get interesting, that investigation is very odd.



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 04:59 AM
link   
a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

There is already a push to revoke Russia and Qatar from hosting the world cup.

Alaska was purchased and held lawful elections to become a US state. The occupation of Crimea by Russian forces before a vote is not the same and was not recognized by the UN or the bulk of the planet. The elections themselves were a violation of international law and the UN has stated as much.

Russia has made claims as to why they invaded Crimea and have been asked time and against o provide the evidence to support their claims to the UN and Russia has failed to provide any evidence. Its not a matter of them presenting evidence and it being ignored. I am stating Russia has never provided any evidence.



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 05:16 AM
link   



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 05:22 AM
link   

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: Xcathdra

Go, explain him ...

‘We did what we had to do’: Putin opens up on Crimea reunification plan


and yet putin stated the reason Russia invaded Ukraine, Crimea was to protect Ethnic Russian being slaughtered by the Ukrainians, which never happened. Then he stated the reason he invaded Crimea was to prevent it from falling into NATO hands. Then it was because of an unfriendly government being put into place in Kiev.

Putin will keep lying depending on the time and what the current situation is.

The fact remains he invaded a sovereign country and is illegally occupying Ukrainian territory while violating not only international law, but the Budapest agreement along with Soviet and Russian law.

Putin is a 2 bit hack and liar who aspires to be Stalin light.



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 07:36 AM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra

and yet putin stated the reason Russia invaded Ukraine, Crimea was to protect Ethnic Russian being slaughtered by the Ukrainians, which never happened. Then he stated the reason he invaded Crimea was to prevent it from falling into NATO hands. Then it was because of an unfriendly government being put into place in Kiev.

Putin will keep lying depending on the time and what the current situation is.

The fact remains he invaded a sovereign country and is illegally occupying Ukrainian territory while violating not only international law, but the Budapest agreement along with Soviet and Russian law.

Putin is a 2 bit hack and liar who aspires to be Stalin light.


What you get from the article ...



The US and the EU have never recognized the Crimea referendum and reacted to it by sanctions against Russia and against the peninsula.

Russian officials have dismissed criticism of the Crimean referendum, citing Kosovo’s unilateral declaration of independence as an example of self-determination praised by the West.

The issue has recently been touched upon again by Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

“When it comes to international law and the attention it gets in particular in connection with the issue of Crimea, we would want our Western colleagues to have no less enthusiasm in dealing with other events in recent history,” Lavrov said.

“These include OSCE members bombing another OSCE member, I mean Yugoslavia, the situation with the unilateral declaration of independence by Kosovo – without any referendums. No one then even bothered to ask why it happened without a referendum. And also the invasion of Iraq under a fake pretext, and the rude violation of the UN Security Council mandate concerning Libya. A country has been destroyed and now everyone is trying to glue its pieces back together and is asking oneself of how not to allow disintegration of other countries in the region.”


... what the article says you don't want to hear about.

It's all about hypocrisy, just like focusing only on the arguments that gives credits to your own perception of righteousness. Staring at the other and looking for his faults is the best way to fill your time when don't want to waste it doing self-criticism.



edit on 5-6-2015 by theultimatebelgianjoke because: filled out



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 07:47 AM
link   
a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Except in addition to the US and the EU, the UN does not recognize Russia's actions in Crimea either. You can try to make this about the US/EU/West verse Russia all you want however it goes beyond that.

Armenia, Kazakhstan, Abkhazia, Nagorno-Karabakh, South Ossetia and Transnistria recognized the results. Of those 3 are breakaway territories of other sovereign nations who didn't recognize the result - namely Transnistria, South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which are currently occupied by Russian forces.

China didn't even recognize the vote nor the result of the vote, abstaining.

The issue revolving around Yugoslavia, its break up and what occurred there has been used by Russia to try and lend credibility to their action however Russia leaves out key elements of that incident because it does not support their argument.


NATO-Russia - Myth verse Fact:

Claim: NATO's operation over Libya was illegitimate

The NATO-led operation was launched under the authority of two UN Security Council Resolutions (UNSCR), 1970 and 1973, both quoting Chapter VII of the UN Charter, and neither of which was opposed by Russia.

UNSCR 1973 authorized the international community "to take all necessary measures" to "protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack". This is what NATO did, with the political and military support of regional states and members of the Arab League.

After the conflict, NATO cooperated with the UN International Commission of Inquiry on Libya, which found no breach of UNSCR 1973 or international law, concluding instead that "NATO conducted a highly precise campaign with a demonstrable determination to avoid civilian casualties."

Claim: NATO's operation over Kosovo was illegitimate

Fact: The NATO operation for Kosovo followed over a year of intense efforts by the UN and the Contact Group, of which Russia was a member, to bring about a peaceful solution. The UN Security Council on several occasions branded the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo and the mounting number of refugees driven from their homes as a threat to international peace and security. NATO's Operation Allied Force was launched to prevent the large-scale and sustained violations of human rights and the killing of civilians.

Following the air campaign, the subsequent NATO-led peacekeeping operation, KFOR, which initially included Russia, has been under UN mandate (UNSCR 1244), with the aim of providing a safe and secure environment in Kosovo.

Back to top

Claim: The cases of Kosovo and Crimea are identical

Fact: The Kosovo operation was conducted following exhaustive discussion involving the whole international community dealing with a long-running crisis that was recognized by the UN Security Council as a threat to international peace and security.

Following the operation, the international community engaged in nearly ten years of diplomacy, under UN authority, to find a political solution and to settle Kosovo's final status, as prescribed by UNSCR 1244.

In Crimea, there was no pre-existing crisis, no attempt to discuss the situation with the Ukrainian government, no involvement of the United Nations, and no attempt at a negotiated solution.

In Kosovo, international attempts to find a solution took over 3,000 days. In Crimea, Russia annexed part of Ukraine's territory in less than 30 days. It has sought to justify its illegal and illegitimate annexation, in part, by pointing to a "referendum" that was inconsistent with Ukrainian law, held under conditions of illegal armed occupation with no freedom of expression or media access for the opposition, and without any credible international monitoring.

Back to top

Claim: Russia's annexation of Crimea was justified by the opinion of the International Court of Justice on the independence of Kosovo (online here).

Fact: The court stated that their opinion was not a precedent. The court said they had been given a "narrow and specific" question about Kosovo's independence which would not cover the broader legal consequences of that decision.

Back to top



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 07:54 AM
link   
i think appointing the israali friend confidant and tie eater saashasvili to a post of responsibility in Ukraine by porto makes it quite clear where the problem might be

Ukraine president appoints ex-Georgia leader Saakashvili governor

news.yahoo.com...
sheesh

Saakashvili energetically supported Ukraine's Euromaidan movement

en.wikipedia.org...

The ex-Israeli soldier who led a Kiev fighting unit

www.haaretz.com...

Ukraine: Israeli Special Forces Unit under Neo-Nazi Command Involved in Maidan Riots?

www.globalresearch.ca...

The Puppet Masters Behind Georgia President Saakashvili

Mihkail Saakashvili was deliberately placed in power in one of the most sophisticated US regime change operations, using ostensibly private NGOs (Non Governmental Organizations) to create an atmosphere of popular protest against the existing regime of former Soviet Foreign Minister Edouard Shevardnadze, who was no longer useful to Washington when he began to make a deal with Moscow over energy pipelines and privatizations.

Saakashvili was brought to power in a US-engineered coup run on the ground by US-funded NGO’s, in an application of a new method of US destabilization of regimes it considered hostile to its foreign policy agenda. The November 24 2003 Wall Street Journal explicitly credited the toppling of Shevardnadze's regime to the operations of "a raft of non-governmental organizations . . . supported by American and other Western foundations." These NGOs, said the Journal, had "spawned a class of young, English-speaking intellectuals hungry for pro-Western reforms" who were instrumental laying the groundwork for a bloodless coup.

Coup by NGO

Civil Georgia (Mar. 22, 2004) until 2005, the salaries of Saakashvili and many of his ministers were reportedly paid by the NGO network of New York-based currency speculator Soros—along with the United Nations Development Program.

Israel US military train Georgian military

The current military assault on South Ossetia and Abkhazia, in violation of Saakashvili’s pledge to seek a diplomatic not military solution to the territorial disputes, is backed by US and Israeli military “advisers.” Israel’s Haaretz newspaper reported that on August 10, Georgian Minister of Reintegration, Temur Yakobshvili, “praised the Israel Defense Forces for its role in training Georgian troops


www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net...
remember when CNN reported that RUSSIA had invaded georgia?
untill someone zoomed in on the footage and saw the uniform ensignias
and we all SAW for ourselves it was being reported via voice over BACKWARDS
when it was Georgia attacked...at the behest of the usual suspects

israleis and their self declaired pals the nazis
you can't make this stuff up

hey Xcath
hows trix?

edit
spelling etc

edit on Friam6b20156America/Chicago04 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

edit on Friam6b20156America/Chicago13 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 08:00 AM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

after ww2
nazis on the front door of Russia should concern them
after the oligarchs rape of Russia
oligrachs on the doorstep should be of concern to russia

they know who was behind BOTH those attacks
same as this attack

its the fool me once fool me twice scenario
fool me once shame on you
fool me twice shame on me

edit on Friam6b20156America/Chicago33 by Danbones because: lol , i george bushed my punch line



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 08:15 AM
link   
a reply to: Danbones

and Putin appointed Ramzan Kadyrov.

your point?

and the Nazis were on Russias front door because they were allies. They both invaded Poland, Germany took the Balkans and the soviets took the Baltics.


edit on 5-6-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 05:04 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra



Claim: NATO's operation over Kosovo was illegitimate

Fact: The NATO operation for Kosovo followed over a year of intense efforts by the UN and the Contact Group, of which Russia was a member, to bring about a peaceful solution. The UN Security Council on several occasions branded the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo and the mounting number of refugees driven from their homes as a threat to international peace and security. NATO's Operation Allied Force was launched to prevent the large-scale and sustained violations of human rights and the killing of civilians.

Following the air campaign, the subsequent NATO-led peacekeeping operation, KFOR, which initially included Russia, has been under UN mandate (UNSCR 1244), with the aim of providing a safe and secure environment in Kosovo.

Claim: The cases of Kosovo and Crimea are identical

Fact: The Kosovo operation was conducted following exhaustive discussion involving the whole international community dealing with a long-running crisis that was recognized by the UN Security Council as a threat to international peace and security.

Following the operation, the international community engaged in nearly ten years of diplomacy, under UN authority, to find a political solution and to settle Kosovo's final status, as prescribed by UNSCR 1244.

In Crimea, there was no pre-existing crisis, no attempt to discuss the situation with the Ukrainian government, no involvement of the United Nations, and no attempt at a negotiated solution.

In Kosovo, international attempts to find a solution took over 3,000 days. In Crimea, Russia annexed part of Ukraine's territory in less than 30 days. It has sought to justify its illegal and illegitimate annexation, in part, by pointing to a "referendum" that was inconsistent with Ukrainian law, held under conditions of illegal armed occupation with no freedom of expression or media access for the opposition, and without any credible international monitoring.


VS



“When it comes to international law and the attention it gets in particular in connection with the issue of Crimea, we would want our Western colleagues to have no less enthusiasm in dealing with other events in recent history,” Lavrov said.

“These include OSCE members bombing another OSCE member, I mean Yugoslavia, the situation with the unilateral declaration of independence by Kosovo – without any referendums. No one then even bothered to ask why it happened without a referendum. And also the invasion of Iraq under a fake pretext, and the rude violation of the UN Security Council mandate concerning Libya. A country has been destroyed and now everyone is trying to glue its pieces back together and is asking oneself of how not to allow disintegration of other countries in the region.”


So while NATO had a mandate to prevent ethnic cleansing in Kosovo in the immediate aftermath of the Balkan war, no UN decision agreed about the referendum regarding it's self-proclaimed independance. It would have been vetoed by the Russian anyway ... I know it's hypocrite but, that's how UN diplomacy works.
The international recognition of Kosovo is still disputed nowadays.

Consider that I didn't dismiss your arguments, I just notice that, practically, they are worth Putin's middle finger.



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 09:18 PM
link   
a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Interesting take on history there.

As far as kosovo goes Russia voted for for UN resolution 1203. That vote was 13 to 0

Now more on topic we go to UN resolution 68/262. That vote was 100 to 11.

Then of course we see irrelevant deflection to Iraq.
In fact it was not under a false pretext and was supported by the majority of the world.
If you want to Iraq did not have wnd's you can tell that to the hundreds of troops that were exposed to such chemicals over there.

The thing is with the UN no nation just strong arms the rest of the world. Issues are put to a vote. We are trying to get past the days where dictators just did what they wanted. Puting seems to think that dictatorship is a good thing. Right wrong or indifferent the majority vote should matter more than a bully dictator.



new topics

top topics



 
6
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join