It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Ukraine's General Staff Admits Using Artillery Banned by Minsk Agreements

page: 3
6
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:25 AM
link   
a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Chechnya is an independent nation? Russia has invaded it twice and currently occupies it.




posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:25 AM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

Dude I'm talking about the referendum held on may 11th of 2014.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:26 AM
link   

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Xcathdra

Dude I'm talking about the referendum held on may 11th of 2014.



Yup - per the minsk agreement all referendums held in rebel controlled areas were to be held under Ukrainian law. That did not occur, hence their elections are shams.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:28 AM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

So that means its not independent? Your idea of occupation is really strange? If someone asks you ti be there are you occupying them?


edit on 4-6-2015 by AVoiceOfReason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:30 AM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

Nice. Way to save face.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:30 AM
link   

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Xcathdra

So that means its not independent? Your idea of occupation is really strange? If someone asks you ti be there are you occupying them?



in the case of Crimea, East Ukraine, Transneistra, Abkhazi and South Ossettia - Yes

just as Russia is occupying Chechnya as well as Koinesberg.
edit on 4-6-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:31 AM
link   

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Xcathdra

Nice. Way to save face.



Saving face? I am pointing out the agreement Russia and the Pro Russias agreed to and then violated by holding their own illegal referendums. They did this because they new a valid election would not run in their favor.

don't get pissy at me because you failed to read and understand the agreement you are ignoring.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:39 AM
link   
a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Haha so just occupy them until they stop fighting and that's a free nation to you?

So you think Russia is wrong for stopping Dagestan and Chechnya from being free, and Ukraine and Russia are both wrong?
edit on 4-6-2015 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:40 AM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra

That is a part of Moldova, just as Crimea is a part of Ukraine and South Ossettia and Abkhazia are parts of Georgia.


Crimea is part of Ukraine ... when did you last checked ?
Now you can grab your gun and try to kick the Russian out but, I'd rather go fight ISIS alongside the chiites personally.

About the Georgians separatists republic : you always have to ask yourself what drives these people toward more regionalistic independence. I don't know the local situation of these people to try myself at some explanation. What do they fancy above the 'democracy' and 'freedom' and 'economical wealth' that is supposedly represented by the 'West' ?

When I look to my own country, it happens to be facing a local issue of nationalism involving one the communities too. We kept it internal, don't have any external warmongers throwing oil on the fire and managed to move along. The flemish nationalist are in charge atm, I found their whole concept of independent Flanders more inspired by Menapian tribalism and politician personal interests that by common sense and the ambition to build something better than what we already have.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:44 AM
link   
a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Eastern Europe never really embraced Western democracy and freedom. They are stuck halfway I think. My opinion.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:53 AM
link   
a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

When the USR occupied these nations and flooded Russian citizens into those regions, it does not give Russia credence in occupying portions because of Russian citizens living there. Crimea, just like Kaliningrad, had ethnic populations deported and then russiafied by Stalin.

if you are Russian and live in Ukraine you have a choice. Live in Ukraine as a Ukrainian under Ukraine law o move back to Russia.


a reply to: OccamsRazor04
Its a bit difficult to embrace that ideology when you are occupied by the Soviet Union for 50 years.


edit on 4-6-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:58 AM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

Oh I agree, merely stating it was not as if they tried it and rejected it. They never really accepted it, it's understandable. I personally have no problem with communism, it's the communists I tend to dislike. If a good man led Russia, not Stalin, world may be different.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 05:07 AM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

For what concerns Crimea, it guess it's just a matter of how far you want to look back in history.
The last 'transfer' was in 2014 and previous one 60 years before. And why was that ? To mark the 300th anniversary of Ukraine becoming a part of the Tsardom of Russia ...

My personal guess is that people are afraid of moving from old-fashioned corruption to modern, cool-looking, lobbying.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 05:14 AM
link   
a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

except the transfer in 2014 was not a transfer as much as it was an occupation of Ukrainian territory by Russia.

no amount of spin can change that fact.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 10:10 PM
link   
a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Fine, if we want to look at it your way, let's remove all the Russians and put the actual Crimean people in charge. If we are reverting things, let's revert them.

What about Dagestan? Chechnya? Why can't they revert back?



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 01:44 AM
link   

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Fine, if we want to look at it your way, let's remove all the Russians and put the actual Crimean people in charge. If we are reverting things, let's revert them.

What about Dagestan? Chechnya? Why can't they revert back?


Don't forget Kaliningrad and reverting it back to German people.



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 01:51 AM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

Pretty sure it only works for nations that are against Russia. When Russia does it, then it's fine.



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 01:54 AM
link   
a reply to: OccamsRazor04
Ahh ok.. my bad



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 02:17 AM
link   
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Yes sure.
As if the Russians had any chance to submit themselves to the empty rhetoric that presents them as the bad guy. I'm sure Putin is already shaking ...
It's not that they are good guys either, it would be stupid to have a dualistic perspective and to consider that things are either black or white.

The mighty US army is very powerful when using billion dollar stealth bombers to bomb 3 bearded guys with AK-47 in a Toyota Hilux. But when was the last the time they really had an encounter with a relatively modern army ? They should consider the warning of USS Donald Cook before doing anything they would regret.

You mentioned a lot of separatist republic, how about Alaska ?



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 02:20 AM
link   
a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Alaska was purchased from Russia and voted for state hood in the 1950's.

The story about the Donald Cook was proven to be false.

Russia has been afforded every opportunity to present its evidence to the United Nations to support the claims it has made and has thus far failed to do so.

How about Chechnya? Dagestan? The illegal annexation and occupation of Koinesberg?


edit on 5-6-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
6
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join