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Ukraine's General Staff Admits Using Artillery Banned by Minsk Agreements

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posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 02:44 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What does that have do with the fact that the US set this war in motion?

And how exactly am I a hypocrite. I believe in people right to choose. Crimea chose, I dgaf what any law says. The majority voted for Russia. And I don't know where you get that the east voted for the western government when the result of their referendum is completely unknown. Why you making up facts bro. Not cool.




posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 02:44 AM
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a reply to: kitzik

The statement about the ethnical/religious group is related to the persons that are practically in charge.
On the Russian side, the boss is obviously Putin.
On the pro-western Ukrainian side ... it's less obvious.
I let you make your own mind after you had the chance to take a look at this particular thread :

Hacked Emails Expose George Soros As Ukraine Puppet-Master



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 02:48 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You would understand it a little better if you understood the concepts behind modern politics and asymmetric warfare. Or maybe you do and your just biased. All in all I don't care.




Funny how a vote only matters if they choose who you want.


So like crimea and the east republics?


People voted. It was not a military coup. They were sick and tired of Russia.


When? There still hasn't been a vote on joining the eu. And there never will be since the eu doesn't give a damn about Ukraine, they only care about surrounding Russia with NATO which they can't do as long as Ukraine is in shambles and in conflict.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 02:54 AM
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originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason

When? There still hasn't been a vote on joining the eu. And there never will be since the eu doesn't give a damn about Ukraine, they only care about surrounding Russia with NATO which they can't do as long as Ukraine is in shambles and in conflict.

Why are we talking about the EU? We are talking about the vote the people had to choose a pro Western or pro Russian leader, and even Eastern Ukraine voted for the pro Western government.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 02:55 AM
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a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Except the actual emails show no such claim. Did you read the emails or just the title?



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 03:07 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

The whole thread. The guy is at work in Macedonia as well and this gives a clue why Putin kicked out of Russia some NGO's recently.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 03:16 AM
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originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: RussianAmericanJew

Is this a joke?


Sounds like typical communist propaganda.


Yes it is.. Russia needs to generate a reason for its intervention / resumption of their advance further into Ukraine. The OSCE caught Russia red handed with its forces in Donetsk.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 03:40 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What even? Are you talking about poroshenko? How do you figure the people in the east voted for him? I'm pretty sure the eastern republics had already tried to vote on a referendum before poroshenko even came into office. Who is giving you your information?

Yeah eastern republics held their referendum vote on may 11. Poroshenko was voted in on the 25 of may.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 03:57 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

the eastern republics violated the Minsk agreement by holding those referendums outside of Ukrainian law - as was agreed to in the document.


edit on 4-6-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:00 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Sigh, it's really not hard to look up the information.

en.wikipedia.org...:Ukrainian_Presidential_Election_2014_Map.png

The only areas of Eastern Ukraine who did not vote for Poroshenko were those who were NOT ALLOWED to vote by the rebels. Parts of Easterk Ukraine were not under rebel control, and voted, and chose Poroshenko.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:14 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Minsk agreement, September 2014. Eastern referendums, may 2014. Now I'm not math wiz buuuuut......



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:16 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

are you for Dagestan and Chechnya having votes to become free nations?



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:19 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

So wait. You think Donetsk and luhansk tried to secede from Ukraine and then when they were denied they just said screw it lets vote for poroshenko. Or wait. There were rebels stopping them from voting for poroshenko... right...



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:20 AM
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originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Xcathdra

Minsk agreement, September 2014. Eastern referendums, may 2014. Now I'm not math wiz buuuuut......



Apparently you aren't a reading whiz either....

Minsk Protocol


The text of the protocol consists of twelve points:[6]
1.To ensure an immediate bilateral ceasefire.

2.To ensure the monitoring and verification of the ceasefire by the OSCE .


PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEXT PART -

3.Decentralisation of power, including through the adoption of the Ukrainian law "On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts".



4.To ensure the permanent monitoring of the Ukrainian-Russian border and verification by the OSCE with the creation of security zones in the border regions of Ukraine and the Russian Federation.

Russia is only allowing 2 border crossings to be monitored and have blocked all other OSCE attempts to expand their observations minotiring to all border crossings with Ukraine.




5.Immediate release of all hostages and illegally detained persons.
6.A law preventing the prosecution and punishment of persons in connection with the events that have taken place in some areas of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts.
7.To continue the inclusive national dialogue.
8.To take measures to improve the humanitarian situation in Donbass.


AGAIN PAY ATTENTION -

9.To ensure early local elections in accordance with the Ukrainian law "On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts".




10.To withdraw illegal armed groups and military equipment as well as fighters and mercenaries from Ukraine.
11.To adopt a program of economic recovery and reconstruction for the Donbass region.
12.To provide personal security for participants in the consultations.


Apparently you and the rebels and Russia don't quite follow through with what they agree to. The Elections held by the rebels were not in compliance with Ukrainian law.

edit on 4-6-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:21 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Since we're talking Ukraine and it's surroundings, don't forget Transnistria.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:21 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

I showed you where votes were allowed, and who they voted for. Not my fault the truth does not fit your narrative.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:22 AM
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originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Since we're talking Ukraine and it's surroundings, don't forget Transnistria.



That is a part of Moldova, just as Crimea is a part of Ukraine and South Ossettia and Abkhazia are parts of Georgia.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:23 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Sure. Why not. And Russia would probably # with them and I would call them out on it. But that won't happen since Russia knows they can catch more flies with honey, the Chechens have realized there are many fruits to be had from a friendship with Russia. And Chechnya is an independent nation to begin with soooo I don't know why they would even bother to vote.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:25 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

In Russia's case they have adopted the adage of catching more flies with horse manure. The Problem is people eventually realize it stinks to high heaven and is a pain to get out of clean clothes.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 04:25 AM
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originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Since we're talking Ukraine and it's surroundings, don't forget Transnistria.


The place where Russia said it was pulling it's troops from and then just never did?




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