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Enacting a basic income for all Americans

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posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:10 PM
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What about all the poor who lived paycheck to paycheck and their retirement? It's looking mighty grim. There is no pot of gold at the end of this rainbow. I guess all those hollow point bullets the Social Security office bought is for us. That's our retirement.




posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

That kind of model requires a machine that can transform nothing into something. Currently that does not exist, and without a working economy providing impetus for people to work and innovate, it will never exist.

No matter what you want to believe, at some point in the chain, people have to work to produce the goods and services we all need. Even if that person is only working to keep the robots working.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:12 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun
I was watching a tech program about tech that could tend fields, plant seeds and cultivate the land. Just think. It all used to be horse and man. For them to see a tractor would have been viewed as impossible technology back then."We have the technology".



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:15 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

That kind of model requires a machine that can transform nothing into something. Currently that does not exist, and without a working economy providing impetus for people to work and innovate, it will never exist.

No matter what you want to believe, at some point in the chain, people have to work to produce the goods and services we all need. Even if that person is only working to keep the robots working.



I still think we're all not looking far enough into the future. While that reality isn't viable in our lifetimes, or the next, we are getting there.

Eventually the concept of work will become a thing of the past. The question is, can humanity overcome the mindset that if one generation works, the next generation must as well?
edit on 6/3/2015 by EternalSolace because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:16 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

That kind of model requires a machine that can transform nothing into something. Currently that does not exist, and without a working economy providing impetus for people to work and innovate, it will never exist.

No matter what you want to believe, at some point in the chain, people have to work to produce the goods and services we all need. Even if that person is only working to keep the robots working.

I never said people wouldn't have to work.

I said work would be optional. You don't think of the millions of people in the world, there wouldn't be someone who would delight in maintaining that equipment? I love to tinker and fix things, hell, sign me up.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:19 PM
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originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

That kind of model requires a machine that can transform nothing into something. Currently that does not exist, and without a working economy providing impetus for people to work and innovate, it will never exist.

No matter what you want to believe, at some point in the chain, people have to work to produce the goods and services we all need. Even if that person is only working to keep the robots working.



I still think we're all not looking far enough into the future. While that reality isn't viable in our lifetimes, or the next, we are getting there.

Eventually the concept of work will become a thing of the past. The question is, can humanity overcome the mindset that if one generation works, the next generation must as well.
It's funny, I hear people talk at length about wanting to work to provide a better future for their children, but as soon as a future is presented in which their children don't HAVE to work, it's suddenly "entitlement" this, "welfare queens" that, "lazy bums" and other things. Wouldn't you WANT to give your children a future where they're not breaking their backs to provide the same quality of life that you sacrificed your body and mind to give them?



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

Honestly, I think we can't evolve to a type 1 civilization or survive the transition from type 0 to type 1 if we don't figure out how to progress beyond a monetary motivation driven system.

I think the transition from a monetary system to ? ,will be the catalyst that either help humanity evolve or perish.

If we do survive it , the majority of societies ill will likely go away and we would advance at unheard levels.

While money is a powerful motivation its no substitution for passion and loving what you do for a living.
edit on 38630America/ChicagoWed, 03 Jun 2015 16:38:25 -0500000000p3042 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:19 PM
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Why can't the government tax the technology that has been created to replaces the human job?



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun I think it's because deep down this is a metaphysical debate on how life should be lived and as I mentioned before the Protestant work ethic still has a strong influence on our culture



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:26 PM
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originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Honestly, I think we can't evolve to a type 1 civilization or survive the transition from type 0 to type 1 if we don't figure out how to progress beyond a monetary motivation driven system.

I think the transition from a monetary system to ? ,will be the catalyst that either help humanity evolve or perish.
You really nailed it. If humanity can't evolve beyond the current monetary and economic system, we'll likely perish. Greed is a terrible emotion to have, and it drives SO many people in the world to do awful things today. It's infected our society, and we're slowly dying as a species because of it. It worked when we were still developing. The greedy and the strong lived to pass on their genes, but as we have moved beyond the simple "hunt, gather, reproduce" lifestyle, and into one where people can pursue passions, greed has become a vestigial emotion that hurts society more than it helps it.
edit on 3-6-2015 by ScientificRailgun because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:28 PM
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at one time america had no minum wage . Nore over time pay nore laws about ages to work.
what america did have was sweat shops people dying young and when it did finly brake having money ment nothing .
A wealbarrel got you a lofe of bread .
once again america is well on its way to people no longer having a granted minum to live on .O but walmart people should just starve .
we did that once then people couldnt fight back .
ill tell you right now when the goverment cuts off foodstamps and other welfare one week untill we have chaos .
so yea just keep the poor getting poorer .
5 million homeless yet 10 million empty houses (only in america ) food being dumped to keep the prices high (oil carge ships 10 million barrels of wheat dumped in the ocen .mean wile you complane about foodstamps and they should just starve .
You repe what you sow and here in America it will be bitter harvest .
Bet you think your guns will save you .guess what your out numbered 10000 to one .better have lot of bullets



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Therein lies the real paradigm shift.

The transition from betterment of self to betterment of all.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Exactly, we have reached the peak of a monetary society and if we are not careful are likely to be on the right side of a bell curve till we hit bottom.

While a monetary society helped us get here , it may also now be doing more harm than good.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:36 PM
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a reply to: EternalSolace

With all the politicians proselytizing about the good of the all, with all the pipedream philosophers and preachers giving sermons to "be kind to your fellow man", All the songs written urging people to come together... Greed still gets in the way.

I freely admit, I'm greedy. I'm so greedy in fact, that I don't want children. I hate that side of myself, but it's true. I wish I could rid myself of it, but I was told and taught from an early age that greed is good, that looking out for myself before others is how I should live. I want to discard this petty and useless emotion, but I can't. At least, this greed in me won't live on in another generation, as I don't wish to reproduce. Perhaps that will be penance enough.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:38 PM
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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

That kind of model requires a machine that can transform nothing into something. Currently that does not exist, and without a working economy providing impetus for people to work and innovate, it will never exist.

No matter what you want to believe, at some point in the chain, people have to work to produce the goods and services we all need. Even if that person is only working to keep the robots working.

I never said people wouldn't have to work.

I said work would be optional. You don't think of the millions of people in the world, there wouldn't be someone who would delight in maintaining that equipment? I love to tinker and fix things, hell, sign me up.


OK, here's the problem -

For the people who opt to work, they are working not just to support themselves. They are working to make society work which means they are working for themselves AND all the people who opt not to work.

If you make it voluntary not to work, then you risk societal collapse because there will be a tipping point where the people who work will get tired of working to support all the people who do not work. It essentially gets much easier to join the ones who don't rather than work ever harder to prop them up for ever diminishing returns for your own hard effort. Not to mention, there will be a point where they simply cannot keep up even if they want to.

Didn't your own mother finally get annoyed with you sitting on the couch while she cleaned up your room and her own and the rest of the house and finally demanded you clean up after yourself?
edit on 3-6-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:41 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

A society ruled by Greed, this is certainly true. And this is what we are, right now.

You're absolutely correct. Unless we move beyond greed, that is our future.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:42 PM
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What I see most people getting angry about is the thought, that they will be working, and their hard work is what would be paying for all the "lazy" people not working. But in the scenario being talked about. Those people getting angry thinking their hard work will be the thing that pays for everything, will not have a job.

What is being talked about is the point when automation makes it so, only around ten percent of the total human population has a job. Do you think all those few jobs, will go only to Americans. Chances are all the people that are angry will not have a job either. Then what. What do you do when you are no longer needed. Do you just go off and die. Or does the human race change and evolve.

This will most likely not affect anyone over thirty. Us humans over thirty will probably be dead by the time this happens. But it is still a conversation that needs to be had. Unless we kill each other first, this could happen, probably within fifty to hundred years. But we need to start talking about it now. So we are prepared for a future that is just as likely as the human race being exterminated in a nuclear war. We can put our heads in the sand and pretend its the good ole days that never really existed. Or we can have open dialogue about a very possible future scenario. One where work is something only a few people do. Its not the only future scenario that is possible, but still one that is possible.

Either way. It does not matter to me personally. Time will drag us all kicking and screaming into the future. Whether we like it or not.
edit on 3-6-2015 by karmicecstasy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:50 PM
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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: ketsuko

A society ruled by Greed, this is certainly true. And this is what we are, right now.

You're absolutely correct. Unless we move beyond greed, that is our future.


*sigh*

Look, you admit yourself that people will have to work in order to make society work. Those people are working to make it all work for everyone. If you do not have enough people who choose to work to make it work for everyone, then society does not work. It all falls down.

It doesn't matter if greed is involved or not.

If you need 500 tomatoes to keep society going, and you need to 50 people to grow those tomatoes, and only 40 people choose to work. You are SOL, no matter what the reason is for you only having 40 people out of 1,000 people in society working.

At that point, you are talking about hard math, and math doesn't care if you accuse of it greed. It is what it is.
edit on 3-6-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Replace those people with automation. It goes from needing 50 people to a machine and one person to maintain it.

There will always be that one person who has an interest and loves on working and maintaining machines. That will make it a hobby and not a job.

There will always be someone who's passion is medicine, or research or whatever. They will do those things not because they have to or society needs it. But because they want to pursue it of their own accord.


edit on 6/3/2015 by EternalSolace because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 03:54 PM
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An interesting thread OP.

Funny that beezer said something about a gilded cage, from his gilded cage.

People generally react poorly when their vaunted worldview is challenged.

Personal responsibility! Harped from the rooftops as the pinnacle of human virtue as they blindly ignore the fact that it's been disappearing for a LOOONG time.

Cling to the old ways all you like.



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